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To Block Trump’s Troop Withdrawals, Congress Turns An Old Tactic Upside Down

There are a lot of people working at those bases. Along with bars, restaurants and other businesses that cater to the service people. There are also people who rent property to them.

9500, we already cleared that, its almost none. Thats a non issue for a nation like Germany and would have no meassurable effect.
 
9500, we already cleared that, its almost none. Thats a non issue for a nation like Germany and would have no meassurable effect.

That is almost none unless you are one of them. However, that is only the number who work directly for the bases. It does not include the people who work in the industries supported by the military people and their families.

However, that is not the issue. The issue is why should the US taxpayers be paying to protect Germany.
 
That is almost none unless you are one of them. However, that is only the number who work directly for the bases. It does not include the people who work in the industries supported by the military people and their families.

However, that is not the issue. The issue is why should the US taxpayers be paying to protect Germany.

When the Schlecker market went bancrupt, over 80.000 people lost their job.

So we agree thats a non meassurable efefct on Germany.

USA does not protect Germany. We can do that ourself and you can clearly see that there is little to no wish from the german public to be "protected".

What USA protects here is their own interests. Its closer to middle east and africa and functions as global hub for US forces.

Infact the US bases pose a security risk for Germany in a way that they may be targets for Iran or Russia.

Our two nations are in a alliance. USA is the biggest player in the western world. Germany the 2nd. It appears this alliance ends now.

In Germany we have closed that chapter and accept it. Our nations wont be enemies but we see it realistic. Its time to part ways and im sure we will work together in certain fields.

Its quite similar to the solar system. In the western world USA so far functioned as the gravitational center like the sun. While Germany represented Jupiter. We orbit the Sun but have our own spehere of influence with almost hundreds of moons and infuencing
other large outer planets like Saturn (France) or Neptune (UK).

For whatever reason the gravitational pull of USA shrinks and Jupiter (Germany) leaves its orbit.

That creates chaos on some smalelr worlds like Poland or Denmark.

Chaos means change and change can be good. History is not static and we should progress without making mistakes of the past again.

The rival is China and i assume our both nations will continue to work together.

The only problem i see is that Trump gets more and more crazy as he loses support and i hope the american system is strong enough to prevent that USA does terror attacks in Germany.
 
Why are we still in Afghanistan?

To fight them over there instead of over here.

It's what the armed forces do and have done on a significant scale since the Spanish American War but beginning in WW I especially and since.

Congress is not going to allow PutinTrumpRowers to let them come over here. Moscow and Beijing have Trump & Rowers over here as it is. It's bipartisan in Congress not to allow our enemies foreign and domestic to work in tandem in the same place, ie, over here. Breaks you guys heart, I know.
 
We've known for years now that the Dems support the Global War Of Terror as strongly as the Repubs do, maybe even more strongly.
 
When the Schlecker market went bancrupt, over 80.000 people lost their job.

So we agree thats a non meassurable efefct on Germany.

USA does not protect Germany. We can do that ourself and you can clearly see that there is little to no wish from the german public to be "protected".

What USA protects here is their own interests. Its closer to middle east and africa and functions as global hub for US forces.

Infact the US bases pose a security risk for Germany in a way that they may be targets for Iran or Russia.

Our two nations are in a alliance. USA is the biggest player in the western world. Germany the 2nd. It appears this alliance ends now.

In Germany we have closed that chapter and accept it. Our nations wont be enemies but we see it realistic. Its time to part ways and im sure we will work together in certain fields.

Its quite similar to the solar system. In the western world USA so far functioned as the gravitational center like the sun. While Germany represented Jupiter. We orbit the Sun but have our own spehere of influence with almost hundreds of moons and infuencing
other large outer planets like Saturn (France) or Neptune (UK).

For whatever reason the gravitational pull of USA shrinks and Jupiter (Germany) leaves its orbit.

That creates chaos on some smalelr worlds like Poland or Denmark.

Chaos means change and change can be good. History is not static and we should progress without making mistakes of the past again.

The rival is China and i assume our both nations will continue to work together.

The only problem i see is that Trump gets more and more crazy as he loses support and i hope the american system is strong enough to prevent that USA does terror attacks in Germany.

This is a very interesting post.
 
To fight them over there instead of over here.

It's what the armed forces do and have done on a significant scale since the Spanish American War but beginning in WW I especially and since.

Congress is not going to allow PutinTrumpRowers to let them come over here. Moscow and Beijing have Trump & Rowers over here as it is. It's bipartisan in Congress not to allow our enemies foreign and domestic to work in tandem in the same place, ie, over here. Breaks you guys heart, I know.

Don't you think our expensive military should be able to win their wars against relatively third world nations, in a timely manner?
 
Don't you think our expensive military should be able to win their wars against relatively third world nations, in a timely manner?

Insurgents and terrorist organizations etc don't operate with tank divisions to include artillery divisions and infantry army groups that are supported by a nation state with submarines and air forces that the good guys spend a couple of years bashing to defeat then march home to parades.

Insurgency is by its nature ongoing in what are called "small wars."

Nevermind also the voices of Sun Tsu in the USA who during the Iraq War Insurgency said for instance the wheels were coming off the AVF after years of fighting. We got out, rode back in again in small war numbers with powerful capabilities that are integrated across the services. In Afghanistan we need to continue to kill 'em over there as they come out of the cookie cutter continuously lest they start banging on our doors over here which sure as shooting they will do if we withdraw our troops while our forces are ready, willing and able to fight over there.

Nobody promised a Victory Day as occurred in conventional wars between states so there's no reason to feel used or betrayed. The multiple small wars are tough, there are costs of every kind and it's small war stuff that is absolutely necessary to keep the homeland safe, stable and free. So maybe we might do this in reverse, ie, send the surrender monkeys to the foreign lands to apply for a job or college and find an apartment to see what we're up against should they ever arrive on our shores clandestinely and in aggregate numbers. Because those guys over there want to come here to kill us and to destroy our place. Nice guys who mind their own business they're not.
 
Insurgents and terrorist organizations etc don't operate with tank divisions to include artillery divisions and infantry army groups that are supported by a nation state with submarines and air forces that the good guys spend a couple of years bashing to defeat then march home to parades.

Insurgency is by its nature ongoing in what are called "small wars."

Nevermind also the voices of Sun Tsu in the USA who during the Iraq War Insurgency said for instance the wheels were coming off the AVF after years of fighting. We got out, rode back in again in small war numbers with powerful capabilities that are integrated across the services. In Afghanistan we need to continue to kill 'em over there as they come out of the cookie cutter continuously lest they start banging on our doors over here which sure as shooting they will do if we withdraw our troops while our forces are ready, willing and able to fight over there.

Nobody promised a Victory Day as occurred in conventional wars between states so there's no reason to feel used or betrayed. The multiple small wars are tough, there are costs of every kind and it's small war stuff that is absolutely necessary to keep the homeland safe, stable and free. So maybe we might do this in reverse, ie, send the surrender monkeys to the foreign lands to apply for a job or college and find an apartment to see what we're up against should they ever arrive on our shores clandestinely and in aggregate numbers. Because those guys over there want to come here to kill us and to destroy our place. Nice guys who mind their own business they're not.

Is that why the right wing cannot win their wars; "the enemy won't fight fair?" Some may allege it is the strategy that is to blame for not winning our wars.
 
Is that why the right wing cannot win their wars; "the enemy won't fight fair?" Some may allege it is the strategy that is to blame for not winning our wars.

USA has the only strategy there is for the time, ie, the small wars of insurgency - counterinsurgency.

We're not going to deploy 500,000 troops as we did in Vietnam.

We're not going to get a driven back to the 38th parallel situation as occurred in Korea which was fought at the level of division warfare and army groups, air forces, naval support etc.

Desert Storm and its 500,000 troops in an allied coalition are out, although our counterinsurgency ops always include allies, Nato especially but not only. But nothing DS big again, certainly not foreseeably.

We're not going to nuke 'em and that's a given.

So we're going to do small wars. Nobody military says this is a bad strategy of war, small wars. Indeed what it comes down to is the next level below strategy, operations.

We need to simply pass through the American peoples compulsion to have the enemy come out for the final time with their hands up and sign the surrender document so we can all go home. In small wars that never happens. No document is trustworthy. No enemy leader or group is credible in negotiations. They're still waiting us out so let them wait some more. And die some more to our superior fighters, their leaders, our equipment, training, discipline, dedication and our cause of freedom as passed on to us by our forebears. And for our posterity.

In small wars we're fighting 'em over there instead of fighting 'em over here. It's the only way to do it.
 
USA has the only strategy there is for the time, ie, the small wars of insurgency - counterinsurgency.

We're not going to deploy 500,000 troops as we did in Vietnam.

We're not going to get a driven back to the 38th parallel situation as occurred in Korea which was fought at the level of division warfare and army groups, air forces, naval support etc.

Desert Storm and its 500,000 troops in an allied coalition are out, although our counterinsurgency ops always include allies, Nato especially but not only. But nothing DS big again, certainly not foreseeably.

We're not going to nuke 'em and that's a given.

So we're going to do small wars. Nobody military says this is a bad strategy of war, small wars. Indeed what it comes down to is the next level below strategy, operations.

We need to simply pass through the American peoples compulsion to have the enemy come out for the final time with their hands up and sign the surrender document so we can all go home. In small wars that never happens. No document is trustworthy. No enemy leader or group is credible in negotiations. They're still waiting us out so let them wait some more. And die some more to our superior fighters, their leaders, our equipment, training, discipline, dedication and our cause of freedom as passed on to us by our forebears. And for our posterity.

In small wars we're fighting 'em over there instead of fighting 'em over here. It's the only way to do it.

You miss the point. If these wars are basically unwinnable, why are we "throwing tax payer money down those black holes of waste, fraud, and abuse?"
 
Insurgents and terrorist organizations etc don't operate with tank divisions to include artillery divisions and infantry army groups that are supported by a nation state with submarines and air forces that the good guys spend a couple of years bashing to defeat then march home to parades.

Insurgency is by its nature ongoing in what are called "small wars."

Nevermind also the voices of Sun Tsu in the USA who during the Iraq War Insurgency said for instance the wheels were coming off the AVF after years of fighting. We got out, rode back in again in small war numbers with powerful capabilities that are integrated across the services. In Afghanistan we need to continue to kill 'em over there as they come out of the cookie cutter continuously lest they start banging on our doors over here which sure as shooting they will do if we withdraw our troops while our forces are ready, willing and able to fight over there.

Nobody promised a Victory Day as occurred in conventional wars between states so there's no reason to feel used or betrayed. The multiple small wars are tough, there are costs of every kind and it's small war stuff that is absolutely necessary to keep the homeland safe, stable and free. So maybe we might do this in reverse, ie, send the surrender monkeys to the foreign lands to apply for a job or college and find an apartment to see what we're up against should they ever arrive on our shores clandestinely and in aggregate numbers. Because those guys over there want to come here to kill us and to destroy our place. Nice guys who mind their own business they're not.

The only one disparaging the AVF on this board was you.
 
To Block Trump’s Troop Withdrawals, Congress Turns An Old Tactic Upside Down

Congress historically has tried to force presidents to bring troops home. But in the last three years, lawmakers have repeatedly tried to make laws to do the opposite.

defense-large.jpg




Rather than moving US forces for viable national security reasons, the Trump withdrawal rationale is based almost exclusively on domestic political considerations.

Or more likely his withdrawals are by Putin's orders. Putin wants us to have a weak and ineffective military presence in the world so he can fill the vacuum and appear stronger. Our troops in Germany are there specifically to counter Putin. They are not in harm's way and there is no reason to withdraw them except to please Putin.
 
Is that why the right wing cannot win their wars; "the enemy won't fight fair?" Some may allege it is the strategy that is to blame for not winning our wars.

The problem is that the wars we have been fighting have no clear cut path to "winning". They are holding exercises and have no real end. This is not the fault of the military it is the nature of the conflicts.
 
Insurgents and terrorist organizations etc don't operate with tank divisions to include artillery divisions and infantry army groups that are supported by a nation state with submarines and air forces that the good guys spend a couple of years bashing to defeat then march home to parades.

Insurgency is by its nature ongoing in what are called "small wars."

Nevermind also the voices of Sun Tsu in the USA who during the Iraq War Insurgency said for instance the wheels were coming off the AVF after years of fighting. We got out, rode back in again in small war numbers with powerful capabilities that are integrated across the services. In Afghanistan we need to continue to kill 'em over there as they come out of the cookie cutter continuously lest they start banging on our doors over here which sure as shooting they will do if we withdraw our troops while our forces are ready, willing and able to fight over there.

Nobody promised a Victory Day as occurred in conventional wars between states so there's no reason to feel used or betrayed. The multiple small wars are tough, there are costs of every kind and it's small war stuff that is absolutely necessary to keep the homeland safe, stable and free. So maybe we might do this in reverse, ie, send the surrender monkeys to the foreign lands to apply for a job or college and find an apartment to see what we're up against should they ever arrive on our shores clandestinely and in aggregate numbers. Because those guys over there want to come here to kill us and to destroy our place. Nice guys who mind their own business they're not.

Dang, Tang, that's the first rational post I have seen from you.
 
The problem is that the wars we have been fighting have no clear cut path to "winning". They are holding exercises and have no real end. This is not the fault of the military it is the nature of the conflicts.

You are claiming we have no strategy to win. If that is the case, it implies we need diplomatic solutions not military non-solutions.
 
You are claiming we have no strategy to win. If that is the case, it implies we need diplomatic solutions not military non-solutions.

That would be a better solution but it is not always possible. But our fight against ISIS showed we can win in a war with a clear cut goal. Sadly our victory was a hollow one for the people of Syria because we have vanquished one tyrant for another.
 
That would be a better solution but it is not always possible. But our fight against ISIS showed we can win in a war with a clear cut goal. Sadly our victory was a hollow one for the people of Syria because we have vanquished one tyrant for another.

Which war was that?
 
You don't remember ISIS?

You mean this?

ISIL originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda and participated in the Iraqi insurgency following the 2003 invasion of Iraq by Western forces at the behest of the United States. In June 2014, the group proclaimed itself a worldwide caliphate[89][90] and began referring to itself as the Islamic State (الدولة الإسلامية ad-Dawlah al-Islāmiyah; IS).[91]--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

How our alleged victory over Iraq was lost?
 
You mean this?



How our alleged victory over Iraq was lost?

Actually the ISIS capital was in Syria. They easily moved into Iraq because the partisan and corrupt Shia Govt.that GW Bush installed in Iraq was persecuting the Sunnis and they welcomed ISIS as saviors.
 
Or more likely his withdrawals are by Putin's orders. Putin wants us to have a weak and ineffective military presence in the world so he can fill the vacuum and appear stronger. Our troops in Germany are there specifically to counter Putin. They are not in harm's way and there is no reason to withdraw them except to please Putin.


Ding, ding ding!!!!
We have a winner!!!
 
That would be a better solution but it is not always possible. But our fight against ISIS showed we can win in a war with a clear cut goal. Sadly our victory was a hollow one for the people of Syria because we have vanquished one tyrant for another.


And trump opened the main prison holding the isis prisoners, and gave an American airbase to Putin...
 
Actually the ISIS capital was in Syria. They easily moved into Iraq because the partisan and corrupt Shia Govt.that GW Bush installed in Iraq was persecuting the Sunnis and they welcomed ISIS as saviors.

Right wingers only know how to waste money not win wars?
 
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