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How the Army officer who testified against Trump could end up in a court-martial

Robertinfremont

Robertinfremont

Photo of me taken in the Army 1963
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How the Army officer who testified against Trump could end up in a court-martial

Vindman may face serious problems for his dereliction of duty as an Army officer. Bad enough the phony Russian hoax happened, now this man can face court martial.

Trump won. Vindman lost.


When Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman appeared before members of Congress on Tuesday to discuss what he knew about President Trump’s conversations with Ukraine’s president, he was violating an order from his commander in chief not to cooperate with the House’s impeachment inquiry.

He is likely protected from legal ramifications from showing up to testify, a former Army judge advocate told Military Times on Thursday. But it remains to be seen whether what he told legislators could get him charged with a crime ― and, of course, how his choice to rebel against his White House chain-of-command will affect his career.

“It’s not far-fetched,” Sean Timmons, a managing partner at Tully Rinckey, said. “It’s a murky issue.”

It comes down to whether Trump’s order was lawful, he said. If Trump was trying to prevent Vindman from sharing sensitive information, it could be. If he was trying to prevent testimony, period, it’s not.
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Robertinfremont said:
How the Army officer who testified against Trump could end up in a court-martial

Vindman may face serious problems for his dereliction of duty as an Army officer. Bad enough the phony Russian hoax happened, now this man can face court martial.

Trump won. Vindman lost.
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I don't think this is a valid issue, nor a road the Administration should seek to go down.

LTC Vindman may (IMO) have done a scurrilous thing, acting in a biased and partisan manner to create an issue where (again IMO) there really wasn't one.

However, IMHO testifying before Congress and offering his "honest" opinion as testimony cannot be validly construed as disobeying any order, or even insubordination per se.

I'd suggest the Administration just let it go, and move on.
 
Hail to the dear leader!

Long may he reign!

Misery to all who speak against his glorious good brain, best words and unmatched wisdom!
 
He was subpoenaed. If he hadn't shown up to testify, he could have been charged with Contempt of Congress, as well as "conduct unbecoming" under the UCMJ.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't think this is a valid issue, nor a road the Administration should seek to go down.

LTC Vindman may (IMO) have done a scurrilous thing, acting in a biased and partisan manner to create an issue where (again IMO) there really wasn't one.

However, IMHO testifying before Congress and offering his "honest" opinion as testimony cannot be validly construed as disobeying any order, or even insubordination per se.

I'd suggest the Administration just let it go, and move on.
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I agree. I think the Pentagon should let it go.

I also think Vindman should be transferred to some out of the way place like Bum**** ND, assigned to a useless desk job...and any notion of him being allowed to resign or get promoted should be firmly removed from his mind.

Make him rot in obscurity.
 
Senator (Lt. Colonel Ret.) Tammy Duckworth (D/IL) said she will hold up all military promotions until Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman receives his full promotion to Colonel.
 
Robertinfremont said:
Vindman may face serious problems for his dereliction of duty as an Army officer. Bad enough the phony Russian hoax happened, now this man can face court martial.
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Lt. Col. Vindman and doing nothing about the Russian/Taliban allegations are merely the latest in a string of insults from Commander Bonespurs.

Little wonder military vets are dropping Trump like a bad habit.
 
Mycroft said:
I agree. I think the Pentagon should let it go.

I also think Vindman should be transferred to some out of the way place like Bum**** ND, assigned to a useless desk job...and any notion of him being allowed to resign or get promoted should be firmly removed from his mind.

Make him rot in obscurity.
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So military personnel should be subject to political punishment? So you think that anyone in the military should base any report they make, any decision they make, should be based upon how it may affect their career and how the current administration may view it, not upon the intelligence available to them at the time. That is your stand?
 
Rexedgar said:
From your link- He is likely protected from legal ramifications from showing up to testify, a former Army judge advocate told Military Times on Thursday.
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And the next sentence says "it remains to be seen whether what he told legislators could get him charged with a crime"
 
Bodhisattva said:
And the next sentence says "it remains to be seen whether what he told legislators could get him charged with a crime"
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That’s called a “wash.”
 
Bodhisattva said:
And the next sentence says "it remains to be seen whether what he told legislators could get him charged with a crime"
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It's been 6 months since that article was written, and Vindman hasn't been charged with a crime - or had any "official" disciplinary action whatsoever.
 
Captain Adverse said:
I don't think this is a valid issue, nor a road the Administration should seek to go down.

LTC Vindman may (IMO) have done a scurrilous thing, acting in a biased and partisan manner to create an issue where (again IMO) there really wasn't one.

However, IMHO testifying before Congress and offering his "honest" opinion as testimony cannot be validly construed as disobeying any order, or even insubordination per se.

I'd suggest the Administration just let it go, and move on.
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When Sen. Duckfeet stops trying to force his promotion then we can move on.
 
trblmkr said:
So military personnel should be subject to political punishment? So you think that anyone in the military should base any report they make, any decision they make, should be based upon how it may affect their career and how the current administration may view it, not upon the intelligence available to them at the time. That is your stand?
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Military personnel who deliberately work with corrupt Congressmen and others in their attempt to unseat a duly elected President deserves the death penalty...but I'm willing to sentence Vindman to irrelevance for the rest of his life.
 
You don't have to follow an unlawful order.


General James Mattis, Trump's secretary of Defense for two years, said Trump is a threat to the Constitution.
 
Mycroft said:
Military personnel who deliberately work with corrupt Congressmen and others in their attempt to unseat a duly elected President deserves the death penalty...but I'm willing to sentence Vindman to irrelevance for the rest of his life.
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How did he "work with them"?

By testifying to the facts as he knew them.
 
trblmkr said:
So military personnel should be subject to political punishment? So you think that anyone in the military should base any report they make, any decision they make, should be based upon how it may affect their career and how the current administration may view it, not upon the intelligence available to them at the time. That is your stand?
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That is their stand. And comes the same week that the Trump campaign has adopted a Nazi symbol.

They are really sinking into a deep hellhole.
 

I think what is going on is he wants to pad his retirement, then bail. He’s done in the military. No one will share anything classified with him for fear of betrayal.

Duck worth is just screwing hundreds of officers in line for promotions. She is just being an ass because she knows that’s what it takes to be in senile Joe’s ticket.
 
Mycroft said:
Military personnel who deliberately work with corrupt Congressmen and others in their attempt to unseat a duly elected President deserves the death penalty...but I'm willing to sentence Vindman to irrelevance for the rest of his life.
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So truth in agreement with party unity equals life. Truth vs party unity equals death. Please be aware, I expect you to apply this logic to all further debates in regards to this subject. I doubt you can. But I expect you to try hard to do it.
 
trblmkr said:
So truth in agreement with party unity equals life. Truth vs party unity equals death. Please be aware, I expect you to apply this logic to all further debates in regards to this subject. I doubt you can. But I expect you to try hard to do it.
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What truth? Vindman presented no truth. None of the BS brought by the House Dems included truth.

It was all opinion. From Vindman and from everyone else. And then the House Dems presented that opinion as evidence that Trump did something illegal.

No...Vindman deliberately worked with the House Dems in their attempt to unseat a duly elected President. I consider that treasonous.
 
swing_voter said:
You don't have to follow an unlawful order.


General James Mattis, Trump's secretary of Defense for two years, said Trump is a threat to the Constitution.
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Mattis would be issued a subpoena to testify in Vindman's defense if there were a court martial as would a dozen retired 4-star officers across the services. Trump's big ass would go up in giant flames during any court martial. Everyone in the courtroom would have to wear asbestos suits over their uniforms.

LTC Vindman btw is on course to the National Defense University at Ft. McNair in Washington DC in the identical master's program Mattis did in his time, ie, International Security Studies. Vindman already has an M.A. from Harvard in Eurasian and Russian Studies which has put ants in Trump's pants -- Putin too of course.

JCS supports the Vindman promotion on its merits but also because JCS doesn't accept Putin saying to his rubber stamp Trump who in the U.S. armed forces can be promoted and advanced and who can't.

Sen. Duckworth btw is focused on SecDef Yes Sir Yesper to find his balls and stand up to Trump on this. Send Putin the message too. Duckworth said she'll release the hold she's talking about once Yesper stands up to Trump or a sufficient period of Yesper silence makes clear Yesper's balls are in his throat.
 
Mycroft said:
What truth? Vindman presented no truth. None of the BS brought by the House Dems included truth.

It was all opinion. From Vindman and from everyone else. And then the House Dems presented that opinion as evidence that Trump did something illegal.

No...Vindman deliberately worked with the House Dems in their attempt to unseat a duly elected President. I consider that treasonous.
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Speaking of truth. Why have we still not seen the actual transcript of the call that squirreled away in the super top secret vault? Any why was it squirreled away in the super secret vault in the first place?
And the military and others including the president, swear an oath to the country, not to a man.
 
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