View Poll Results: Was Vietnam a just war?

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    2 4.76%
  • Yes, it was just

    10 23.81%
  • No, it wasn't just

    30 71.43%
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Thread: Was Vietnam a just war?

  1. #121
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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickyjo View Post
    How about when we supported undemocratic forces around the world? Our foreign policy has been idealistic, imperialistic, stupidly anti-communist, and generous, sometimes all four at the same time.
    It's not as simple as you're making it out to be. America was fighting the Cold War with the Soviet Union. This started in 1945 and ended in 1989, that's over 40 years.

    In Latin American countries, you have a small group of elites who rule over the poor with an iron fist. An elite can shoot a poor man in the street in front of a 100 witnesses and nothing will happen to him.

    Naturally, the poor in Latin America want to rebel. They wanted to kill the elite and take their stuff.

    Where did they find a sponsor? The Soviet Union was all to happy to sponsor them. The Soviets gave the poor in Latin America guns, training and money.

    America's doctrine was to oppose the Soviets wherever they went. So in these Latin American countries, America would contact the anti-communists. These were people who owned property, worked for the military or the church. Remember that Soviets were anti religion.

    So America did the same for their side that the Soviets did for their side. America gave their side, money, training and guns.

    We won the Cold War.

  2. #122
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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmNat View Post
    On the one hand, killing communists is always a noble pursuit.

    OTOH, the US government never seriously tried to win Vietnam, making it a colossal waist.



    Ecofarm is a committed internationalist. He gets off on American troops dying in foreign hellholes for no apparent purpose. He likes Vietnam for the same reason I have reservations about it, because it set a precedent for the US to indefinitely occupy unruly puppet states with no strategy for pacification.
    Yeah, we have a record of nobly pursuing and killing communists even when they are not communists, simply left-handed, as Paul Simon sang.

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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Without superpower willingness to project power around the globe, fledgling democracies would never have been safe to get on their feet.
    And when they got on their feet and voted in ways we didn’t like, we projected our power to destroy them.

  4. #124
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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertinfremont View Post
    What are you saying, they had club ownership? And i am speaking of individual ownership.
    They believed in communal/societal ownership of land. Individual ownership of land is inherently coercive. Even Adam Smith and Thomas Paine spoke against it.

  5. #125
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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertinfremont View Post
    They did not have a dictatorship there. Say, are you one of those who favored the communists?
    They absolutely had a dictatorship. They were no more democratic than Saddam’s Iraq was with the the “elections” that confirmed him as president.

  6. #126
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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    We lost the vietnam war and it didn't hurt us


    If we won it wouldnt have helped us


    No need to be there at all
    The role of the United States in the Vietnam War began after World War II and escalated into full commitment during the Vietnam War from 1955 to 1973. ... Eventually, U.S. missions were carried out at a more consistent rate by sending out increasing amounts of military assistance from the United States.

    Role of the United States in the Vietnam War - Wikipedia

    We signed a peace agreement and moved the troops back to America. It was in 1975 that North Vietnam conquered South Vietnam. We had sent our troops home.

    In January 1973, the United States and North Vietnam concluded a final peace agreement, ending open hostilities between the two nations. War between North and South Vietnam continued, however, until April 30, 1975, when DRV forces captured Saigon, renaming it Ho Chi Minh City (Ho himself died in 1969).
    The criticism of Trump to say it mildly is not relevant. The man performs his office magnificently. Take a racer at the 500 Indy race. The driver may have womanized. May have boozed and gambled. May have never voted. But man can that driver race.
    Trump is like the winner of the Indy 500.

  7. #127
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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertinfremont View Post
    I read historical accounts at the Nixon presidential library plus accounts at the Truman library so I do not agree. FDR had full plans to support the South Vietnamese then he died.
    Considering the “South Vietnamese” did not even exist until well after his death, I call bull**** on this claim.

  8. #128
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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertinfremont View Post
    The role of the United States in the Vietnam War began after World War II and escalated into full commitment during the Vietnam War from 1955 to 1973. ... Eventually, U.S. missions were carried out at a more consistent rate by sending out increasing amounts of military assistance from the United States.

    Role of the United States in the Vietnam War - Wikipedia

    We signed a peace agreement and moved the troops back to America. It was in 1975 that North Vietnam conquered South Vietnam. We had sent our troops home.

    In January 1973, the United States and North Vietnam concluded a final peace agreement, ending open hostilities between the two nations. War between North and South Vietnam continued, however, until April 30, 1975, when DRV forces captured Saigon, renaming it Ho Chi Minh City (Ho himself died in 1969).
    Yeah we lost big time

  9. #129
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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Vietnam technically was not a war.

    It was started with a red flag operation, the gulf of tonkin incident. We were there supposedly to stop the spread of communism. We did a real bang up job of ****ing up another country and then deserting them.

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    Re: Was Vietnam a just war?

    Quote Originally Posted by swing_voter View Post
    It's not as simple as you're making it out to be. America was fighting the Cold War with the Soviet Union. This started in 1945 and ended in 1989, that's over 40 years.

    In Latin American countries, you have a small group of elites who rule over the poor with an iron fist. An elite can shoot a poor man in the street in front of a 100 witnesses and nothing will happen to him.

    Naturally, the poor in Latin America want to rebel. They wanted to kill the elite and take their stuff.

    Where did they find a sponsor? The Soviet Union was all to happy to sponsor them. The Soviets gave the poor in Latin America guns, training and money.

    America's doctrine was to oppose the Soviets wherever they went. So in these Latin American countries, America would contact the anti-communists. These were people who owned property, worked for the military or the church. Remember that Soviets were anti religion.

    So America did the same for their side that the Soviets did for their side. America gave their side, money, training and guns.

    We won the Cold War.
    Which counters nothing I said. And it wasn’t just Latin America. In Africa, Asia, the whole world, the US supported dictators and helped them crush democratic movements. Look at South Korea. The US supported the dictatorship in charge against democratic reformers for 30 years. Those reformers were not armed rebels supplied by the Soviets.

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