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Aircraft Carrier Captain Fired For ‘Poor Judgement’ In Sending Coronavirus Letter

His ship had already been in port for 4 days by the time he started doing this. In what way was he and his command in any different situation than any Commander on shore?

In his judgement, confinement of thousands of men in a very high density area during when men are collapsing due to the corona virus is a recipe for disaster - especially so for a sick bay of 50 beds total (and no experience with pandemics).

That is how it is "different".
 
In his judgement, confinement of thousands of men in a very high density area during when men are collapsing due to the corona virus is a recipe for disaster - especially so for a sick bay of 50 beds total (and no experience with pandemics).

That is how it is "different".

Sounds like the Navy flunked it’s bio warfare drill.
 
‘It Doesn’t Add Up To Me’: Current and Former Navy Officials Question Captain’s Abrupt Dismissal

“Why wasn’t there an investigation done before the captain was relieved?” one former senior official asked.

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Yesterday the Trump administration fired the Inspector General of the US Intelligence community who alerted Congress to the Ukraine whistleblower.

If you criticize or embarrass this administration in any meaningful or even tangential way, you're done. Except for war criminals. They get the VIP treatment.

Yes this was ordered from top and executed by Trump's flunky. It is just another example of how Trump is corrupting us from within in all areas even our military.
 
‘It Doesn’t Add Up To Me’: Current and Former Navy Officials Question Captain’s Abrupt Dismissal

“Why wasn’t there an investigation done before the captain was relieved?” one former senior official asked.

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Yesterday the Trump administration fired the Inspector General of the US Intelligence community who alerted Congress to the Ukraine whistleblower.

If you criticize or embarrass this administration in any meaningful or even tangential way, you're done. Except for war criminals. They get the VIP treatment.

Today a number of Senators and members of the House sent a letter to the Pentagon IG to investigate the adverse action against Capt. Crozier. The Pentagon IG will have to investigate.

So the IG is likely the next public serving official Trump will have fired and perhaps sooner rather than later. Trump says he doesn't doubt the decision of the Acting SecNavy Thomas Modley, "not one bit" Trump said. So yes, this is the same CinC who pardons war criminals instead of sticking up for a carrier captain who knows that the mission comes first and that there can't be any mission when you don't have any crew to execute a mission.
 
So in your mind going outside the chain of command when his pleas to his commanders fell on deaf ears is grounds for dismissal? Isn't a captains first duty to his men or are they just pawns in a bureaucratic wheel?

No, his first duty is to the accomplishment of the mission.

And the ship was already in port before he started making those demand! It had been in port for almost a week before he started going crazy. I am not sure how often I have to repeat this.

It arrived on 27 May, having been ordered to Guam the day before. It was on 31 May that the letters went out. What more could have been done?

In his judgement, confinement of thousands of men in a very high density area during when men are collapsing due to the corona virus is a recipe for disaster - especially so for a sick bay of 50 beds total (and no experience with pandemics).

That is how it is "different".

The ship was already in port! What more could have been done by that point? The ship had already been stripped from almost 6,000 people down to just over 1,000 by that time. And the combined Air Force and Naval Base were already working trying to make more space available for them. It is not like bases generally have 5,000 empty beds just laying around.

And "collapsing due to coronavirus"? There were only around 30 cases when the ship docked, which has since risen to just over 100. And guess what? They are likely all going to survive just fine. Out of the over 1,000 cases the military has had so far, there has been only 1 death.

And the 50 beds in the Hospital could not handle that? When the USS Forrestal disaster happened in 1967, just over 5,500 were aboard. 134 were killed and 161 were injured. And she still continued her mission.

Sounds like a great many in here are panicking also, blowing things way out of proportion.

The ship was already in port for days! It was in the largest Naval base between Hawaii and Japan! What in the hell was the Navy expected to do at that point? Order them back to sea and spend several more days steaming to Hawaii? Order a massive evacuation by air of all the sailors to the Mainland?
 
No, his first duty is to the accomplishment of the mission.

And the ship was already in port before he started making those demand! It had been in port for almost a week before he started going crazy. I am not sure how often I have to repeat this.

It arrived on 27 May, having been ordered to Guam the day before. It was on 31 May that the letters went out. What more could have been done?



The ship was already in port! What more could have been done by that point? The ship had already been stripped from almost 6,000 people down to just over 1,000 by that time. And the combined Air Force and Naval Base were already working trying to make more space available for them. It is not like bases generally have 5,000 empty beds just laying around.

And "collapsing due to coronavirus"? There were only around 30 cases when the ship docked, which has since risen to just over 100. And guess what? They are likely all going to survive just fine. Out of the over 1,000 cases the military has had so far, there has been only 1 death.

And the 50 beds in the Hospital could not handle that? When the USS Forrestal disaster happened in 1967, just over 5,500 were aboard. 134 were killed and 161 were injured. And she still continued her mission.

Sounds like a great many in here are panicking also, blowing things way out of proportion.

The ship was already in port for days! It was in the largest Naval base between Hawaii and Japan! What in the hell was the Navy expected to do at that point? Order them back to sea and spend several more days steaming to Hawaii? Order a massive evacuation by air of all the sailors to the Mainland?

There were 4000 men onboard when the letter went out and many of them are still on board. We are not at war and combat readiness is not an excuse to endanger all those lives. It does appear that the Captain got their attention at least. He would not have done that unless his superiors were not being sensitive to his concerns. What do you think the morale of his men was like as the virus spread?

Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly, however, made it clear that while several thousand will leave the ship, other sailors will remain on board in order to continue to protect the ship and run critical systems.

“We cannot and will not remove all sailors from the ship,” Modly told Pentagon reporters. He said officials will send as many sailors off the ship as possible while still maintaining safety. He said about 1,000 have gone ashore, and that number will grow to at least 2,700 in a couple of days.



The problem aboard the Roosevelt highlights a central dilemma facing the military: Top officials, who have spent years placing readiness to fight the next war as a top priority, are now finding that maintaining that readiness during a pandemic can endanger the health, and even the lives, of service members. At the same time that Americans are being told to stay at home and practice “social distancing” in public, many service members are instead being told to continue doing their jobs.

Captain of U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt Pleads for Help as Coronavirus Spreads Onboard - The New York Times
 
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Re: Aircraft Carrier Captain Fired For ‘Poor Judgement’ In Sending Coronavirus Letter

That's such trite bull****. The Roosevelt was already docking at Guam.

The Navy brass refused to allow TR sick sailors to leave the ship and quarantine, thereby threatening every sailor on board.

Indeed.

The crew was still on the ship when Capt. Crozier sent his letter May 31st.

While SecNavy Modly seemed to be in agreement with Crozier SecDef Esper and Pacific Fleet Commander Adm. Aquilino were hemming and hawing about whether there were facilities on Guam to accommodate the isolation of a couple of thousand sailors suddenly and en masse. One would hate to think Esper or Aquilino were considering herd immunity for the TR pierside at Guam. There still isn't any Navy regulation -- or law -- against herd immunity even though it comes straight out of the Captain Bligh book of Naval seafaring.



APRIL 1, 2020

“We don’t disagree with the C.O. on that ship,” Modly said.

Later Tuesday, Mark Esper, the secretary of Defense, and Adm. J.C. Aquilino, the Pacific Fleet commander, contradicted Modly.

Esper told CBS Evening News that “I don’t think we are at that point yet,” when asked about moving sailors off of the ship. Aquilino told reporters that there were issues finding rooms for the sailors on Guam.

Coronavirus spreads on Navy ship Theodore Roosevelt: captain - Los Angeles Times


Maybe the word had got to the crew too given herd immunity is fundamentally inhumane for the crew and would have roused Navy families, families across the armed services and the general public nationally.

Moreover Capt. Crozier may have had some concerns he would have been stuck by the Pentagon with any blowback from it. It would also have been Crozier's duty to manage the ship's discipline during and throughout any period of possible herd immunity. Some retired Navy officers have been publicly calling for implementation of herd immunity, which is anyway a euphemism for a medieval mass suffering and torture in the false name of military discipline and good order.
 
The alternative is herd immunity so you'd need to say whether you'd prefer that.

The Reagan has diagnosed cases in addition to the TR, the two being the only carriers forward operating in the western Pacific.

If you want herd immunity then you have to tie up the fully crewed Reagan at Yokosuka Naval Base in Tokyo Bay and ride it out pierside while hoping no **** happens anywhere in the region that would require a carrier being sent. Yokosuka btw is on a total lockdown.

And you have to tie up the TR where it is currently berthed at Guam the same.

With herd immunity which is an old military principle of the old school of hard knocks you let the crew of officers, nco and enlisted get ill to varying degrees until nobody's sick any more -- and hope to hell you don't lose any personnel doing it. If you want that say so and also say you'd accept the consequences of it in its many negative aspects should some crew die and should some **** break out somewhere in the western Pacific that you have to attend to with significant elements of your crew disabled or diminished.

Just say so, that's all then we'll know where you're coming from.

Word salad. There's nothing to debate. The guy did not follow the chain of command. He jeopardized national security in doing so. He's lucky he's not in a jail cell at the moment. He should thank Trump from the bottom of his heart.
 
Word salad. There's nothing to debate. The guy did not follow the chain of command. He jeopardized national security in doing so. He's lucky he's not in a jail cell at the moment. He should thank Trump from the bottom of his heart.

You're out of it and you don't know it -- you've been self involved for so long.

You're making an arbitrary and summary pronouncement because you have no substantive or significant reply to the posts.

In other words you've reduced yourself to simply being present. Present and flailing.
 
There were 4000 men onboard when the letter went out and many of them are still on board. We are not at war and combat readiness is not an excuse to endanger all those lives. It does appear that the Captain got their attention at least. He would not have done that unless his superiors were not being sensitive to his concerns. What do you think the morale of his men was like as the virus spread?

And gee, read your own quote.

“We cannot and will not remove all sailors from the ship,” Modly told Pentagon reporters. He said officials will send as many sailors off the ship as possible while still maintaining safety. He said about 1,000 have gone ashore, and that number will grow to at least 2,700 in a couple of days.

And once again, where were they going to send them all on short notice?

I am not sure how many military bases you have been on, but I wish you luck in finding one that has 5,000 beds available on short notice. I have been stationed on at least 10 of them over the decades, and that would be a tall order for any base to accomplish. Even one as large as say Camp Pendleton or Camp Lejeune (let alone Fort Bliss or Fort Sill). SO let's go with the claim that they were not being pulled off fast enough.

Where would they go? Put them all up on cots in the basketball court at the gym? Yea, like that is not the perfect breeding ground for an outbreak. They would be better off on the ship instead of in a place like that.

This is what I keep saying over and over, and nobody has yet to answer. But let me say it yet one more time, and make it clear.

Where was the Navy expected to put that many people on short notice? Your own quote shows that they were taking them off as fast as they could, and it seems to me that the problem was not in removing them, but finding a place to put them all. It is not like the military has the budget to keep empty barracks just sitting around waiting for somebody to move into them.

This is why a decade ago when the 1st Armored Division (17,000 men) moved from Germany to Fort Bliss, they had to spend 6 years and over $5 billion to build them barracks, chow halls, clinics, and everything else they needed. Essentially doubling the size of the base. After the base reductions and decreased budgets, there are simply no bases other than their home ports that have facilities to take that many sailors. And the Guam Navy Base is only home to 5 submarines.

But hey, this is something the Navy has been trying to deal with the best it can.

Navy leaders and Guam’s hospitality community are scrambling to match sailors from USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) who test negative for COVID-19 with vacant hotel rooms.

Naval Base Guam does not have the capacity to sufficiently house the bulk of Theodore Roosevelt’s crew in a way that would follow current medical guidelines for stopping the spread of COVID-19, Acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly said during a briefing Wednesday with the Pentagon press corps.

Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Michael Gilday explained during Wednesday’s briefing that Crozier’s memo detailed his requirement was for a faster pace than the chain of command had anticipated.

“He wanted to move at a greater speed to get people off the ship,” Gilday said. “The misunderstanding was the requirement and speed to get people off the ship.”

By the end of the week, Modly said about 2,700 Theodore Roosevelt crew members should be off the ship, staying either on the base or in hotels. According to the Guam Visitors Bureau, the island has 8,860 hotel rooms.

“One thing I also want to emphasize is we cannot and will not remove all of the sailors off the ship,” Modly said. “And that’s not what the commanding officer requested either nor the medical team. Our plan was always to remove as much of the ship’s crew as we can while maintaining the ship’s safety.”

Guam Gov. Lou Leon Guerrero and Rear Adm. John Menoni, the commander of Naval Forces Marianas, detailed the efforts to limit the interaction of Theodore Roosevelt crew members with local Guam residents, during a Tuesday press briefing aired by KUAM News in Guam.

“Only sailors testing negative for COVID-19 will be housed in the vacant Guam hotel rooms subject to a 14-day quarantine period,” Leon Guerrero said.

And that paints a much more complete picture of what is going on. They have to determine what personnel are required, then screen everybody before they are removed from the ship. And only then are they able to find someplace to put them up for a 14 day period.
 
So once again, somebody please tell me how this could go any faster? Because now there are a lot more steps involved. Those Sailors kept out in town now have to be fed, provided medical care, and still maintain some kind of chain of command as they are scattered everywhere. Oh, and do not forget transportation around the base and island.

It is because of things like this that moving units around is such a ballet dance. I have participated in many deployments. Sometimes we were literally getting off the plane as the unit we replaced were getting right back on it. Other times as the departing unit we were put up in permanent tents that were in place to hold units as they were turning over their duties to another.

And yea, tents. Once again, probably the worst "temporary shelter" system that the military has, and what it does in all other cases where a ship is evacuated for anything other than a pandemic. Oh, I am sure there are enough tents on the base (or could be flown there in 1-2 days) that everybody could leave the ship and be on shore within 48 hours. But when you have a pandemic, you do not put people together like that in tents unless you want to guarantee it will spread.

It is almost immediately obvious to me that nobody else in this discussion has ever worked in the S-3 (operations) or S-4 (logistics) shops in the military. Because these are the immediate questions I asked myself, and nobody else even seems to think of this as important.
 
My former Company Commanders, son of a general, opinion on this.

This is bull****. Capt. Brett Crozier is a top rated Navy combat commander, responsible for one of our nations most powerful and valuable assets, a nuclear powered and nuclear weapons-equipped carrier, a key player in protecting our nation and the freedom of the seas. As such, he MUST be diligent in insuring the health and well being of his highly trained crew of 5,000 in order to be combat ready, 24/7/365. As we’ve seen in cities around the world, an outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 can rapidly decimate a close-quarter population. The fact that his requested assistance resulted in his team-breaking reassignment by a puke political appointee of this tender-ego administration is gutlessly shameful. Capt. Crozier’s reassignment should be instantly rescinded and the good Captain put immediately back on his ship.
 
Word salad. There's nothing to debate. The guy did not follow the chain of command. He jeopardized national security in doing so. He's lucky he's not in a jail cell at the moment. He should thank Trump from the bottom of his heart.

And I can also imagine the frustration of the Captain Grimes, the Commander of the Guam Naval Base. He was suddenly slammed with over 2 times the number of people in his entire command, and directed to find them housing, food, and everything else. And I can guarantee that he and his entire staff were working their asses off to find a solution.

And then you have this ship jockey Airedale screaming that not enough was being done.

Of course, if the formerly nearby Ship Repair Facility had not been closed in 1997, they would have had room to put up a lot of those sailors. One thing about shipyards, they always have barracks handy for the purpose of housing all the Sailors that are taken off the ship while it is being worked on. I know at Mare Island we had 2 large barracks for that purpose. Whenever a sub or some other ship came in to be worked on, they Sailors moved ashore for the 12-18 months that was done. Most of the permanent personnel were living in the old Naval Hospital by the time I was stationed there.

But the base being discussed is small. Anybody can look at this photo and see the entirety of the barracks for the entire base, and a big chunk of the Dependent Housing.

Google Maps

So where exactly was everybody supposed to go? You had the base commander working frantically trying to find them all beds and a roof over their heads, then this guy starts screaming that not enough was being done, and it was not being done fast enough.

I am glad he got canned, the guy is a freaking moron. This is where the old saying really applies, he needed to "stay in his own lane".

But it will ultimately not matter. He will still ultimately retire as a Captain, with a very nice pension. He can just kiss goodbye any hopes he ever had of getting stars on his shoulder.
 
Maybe he felt like sounding the alarm was more important than his own job.
 
A problem for Pentagon that was a problem too for Capt. Crozier is that the people on Guam are not too happy to be host to sailors trying to escape CV-19 and who hope Guam is the safe place. This is true especially since seven of the 33 sailors who initially tested negative show symptoms of CV-19 infections several days after being tested.

Navy is filling 7 hotels on the island to include the beachfront Sheraton where a room is $200 and where the first group of sailors has just settled in.



Guam Locals Unhappy With Housing U.S. Sailors From Coronavirus-Hit Aircraft Carrier


Gov. Leon Guerrero, for her part, acknowledged at the same briefing the protests brewing on the 212-square-mile island she governs. “I know my decision to allow the restricted housing of sailors who have tested negative for COVID-19 off base has left a few of you uneasy,” she said. “This decision was not made in haste." The U.S. military has three bases on Guam, occupying 49,000 acres of its territory. “As an unincorporated territory we have little power to resist the military. They own one-third of the land on Guam,” Guam artist Joshua Barrigada tells NPR. “Our demands are only that they keep the sailors on base.”

At least 114 of the Roosevelt’s sailors have tested positive for coronavirus, and thousands more have yet to be tested. “I am disturbed by the reckless double-standard of potentially placing potentially exposed military personnel in local hotels,” writes local Senator Sabina Flores Perez in a letter this week to Guam Governor Lourdes Leon Guerrero. “If sailors are placed in our hotels, we will be exposing lower-wage employees to greater risk, many of whom are older and have limited or no health benefits for themselves and their families.” “Being negative today doesn’t mean that they won’t be in a week or so,” reads a statement issued Wednesday by the indigenous activist group I Hagan Famalåo’an Guåhan. “The decision to house them in the middle of our community is playing a game of chance with the health of our people.” At a news briefing in Guam on Thursday, Joint Region Marianas commander Rear Adm. John Menoni was asked what the consequences might be for Guam if sailors who tested negative turn out to have COVID-19. “So I guess that’s the $64 million question,” Menoni replied. “I cannot predict the future.”

Guam Locals Unhappy With Housing U.S. Sailors From Coronavirus-Hit Aircraft Carrier .

News

| OPB
 
Maybe he felt like sounding the alarm was more important than his own job.

Sounding the alarm to what?

They were already in port, and the base was working as hard as it could to find places to put everybody.

Imagine what it would be like if say the entire population of Washington DC just up and moved to Philadelphia.
 
Timelines and dates are falsely associated with events by the Right.

Consistently.

Willfully.

This from Navy Times helps to prove the point.


he Navy is preparing to evacuate thousands of sailors off of the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt within days to prevent the spread of COVID-19, according to acting Secretary of the Navy Thomas Modly.

“We already have nearly 1,000 personnel off the ship right now,” Modly told reporters Wednesday.

"In the next couple days, we expect to have about 2,700 of them off the ship. One thing I want to emphasize as well is that we cannot and will not remove all the sailors from the ship.”

Navy to evacuate 2,700 sailors from carrier over ‘next couple days’ amid COVID-19 pandemic


The crew was not off the ship when Capt. Crozier wrote his letter to Big Navy as certain Right posters have said wrongly and repeatedly while they try unsuccessfully to dump on the captain.
 
You're out of it and you don't know it -- you've been self involved for so long.

You're making an arbitrary and summary pronouncement because you have no substantive or significant reply to the posts.

In other words you've reduced yourself to simply being present. Present and flailing.

Flailing? Posting known facts is flailing? The guy did not follow the chain of command. He lost his command as a result. Its textbook.
 
Flailing? Posting known facts is flailing? The guy did not follow the chain of command. He lost his command as a result. Its textbook.

Sez the guy who goes begging after other people's numbers and data.

Keeps at it tell he gets some.

Then mangles 'em after he gets 'em. :lamo
 
Sez the guy who goes begging after other people's numbers and data.

Keeps at it tell he gets some.

Then mangles 'em after he gets 'em. :lamo

Begging? Lol...its more like watching a cat chase a laser pen around. Lefties provide stats, I reference them...other lefties show up to ridicule what they thought was my stat then bailed when they found out other lefties actually supplied them. Adorable...kitties, so darn cute watching them chase the red dot.
 
Begging? Lol...its more like watching a cat chase a laser pen around. Lefties provide stats, I reference them...other lefties show up to ridicule what they thought was my stat then bailed when they found out other lefties actually supplied them. Adorable...kitties, so darn cute watching them chase the red dot.

You've become owned about that by several posters.

You still don't know it though.

You have nothing of your own so you have to turn to other posters -- that much you're well aware of.
 
Also, why am I positive that that captain was ringing every alarm bell he could prior to sending that letter? That the letter was him going outside the cabin of command because the chain of command had different priorities than the safety of sailors .

"Acting" navy secretary tells me much of the answer to these questions.

Whether he did or not what he did was wrong, and at the least he should have had a lawyer help him.
 
You've become owned about that by several posters.

You still don't know it though.

You have nothing of your own so you have to turn to other posters -- that much you're well aware of.
lol...sure I have. I was owned by no one. You guys are just pissed your own fellow lefties descended upon your stats and then bailed when they found out they were not sourced by me but were sourced by lefties.

***look at the red dot....go get it****
 
Whether he did or not what he did was wrong, and at the least he should have had a lawyer help him.

Capt. Crozier sent the letter to Pacific Command so he did not violate the chain of command in this respect. The beef of Big Navy at Pentagon and at Pacific Command is that the letter got to the media and that Crozier deliberately embarrassed the nincompoops at Big Navy to include the SecDef Esper given the whole klatch were haggling back and forth about whether to put the sailors ashore or to confine 'em to the ship and a medieval herd immunity.

And no, no lawyers.

Operational differences are common in the chain of command and that's where they get sorted and settled. The relationships in the chain of command are not lawyerly adversarial nor are they legally adversarial in everyday operations. Operational differences in the armed forces are professional and they are rank and rules based with established procedures and protocols; they are not a matter for lawyers or involving statutes. The only time a commanding officer or any officer might need a lawyer is when it looks like a criminal case which CV-19 is not nor are ops differences the realm of lawyers. Capt. Crozier knew what he was doing, why, and he was prepared to accept the known to him possible consequences that did occur. Crozier quite went by the book.
 
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