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Exclusive: U.S. Navy expected to relieve commander of coronavirus-stricken aircraft carrier

Felis Leo said:
I understand why the let him go. It seems improper to publicly disclose the fighting capacity of an active duty warship.
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The man stepped out of the chain of command because the chain of command had just failed him.

He stepped out because it failed, and he stepped out over the health of his crew, a public health concern.

The same guy who pardons a war criminal now fires a man defending his crew and himself from contagion.

These are ****ed up times we live in.
 
ecofarm said:
I told 'em not to serve on floating metal boxes.
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Those metal boxes arent so bad, most of the time. Certainly better than a tent in the desert or stuck in a humvee.

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roguenuke said:
Those metal boxes arent so bad, most of the time. Certainly better than a tent in the desert or stuck in a humvee.

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“Death From Above!”
 
Let's be adult about this. Sometimes, you do the right thing and get in trouble anyway. This guy just got the chance to take one for the team. Could it be that both sides are correct? That he was correct to tell and they were right to discipline him?
 
roguenuke said:
And sickbay cannot handle Sailors who may require longterm (as in more than a few hours even) ventilation due to coronavirus. While none may require now, it doesnt mean none of those currently known or those who likely will get infected wont need to be on a ventilator.
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The vast majority of those who need mechanical assistance in breathing are over the age of 60, and have other serious pre-existing medical conditions. As in chronic kidney and other major medical issues (including drug abuse, and other diseases leaving them subject to secondary infections), obesity, poor physical health, and other things.

Very few that fall under those categories are in the military. At this time military wide there are just over 1,000 patients that test positive, and only a single death.

I have no problem with his bringing the ship to port, that was a prudent call. It is the decisions made after the fact in what seems to be a state of panic that causes me to consider him unfit to command. But this bringing up ventilation, that is only in the most severe cases, and once again that is not the demographic that these individuals fall into. Panic.

And what does he really expect to be done? What can be done that is not already being done for his ship, and a lot of other units military wide?
 
Oozlefinch said:
The vast majority of those who need mechanical assistance in breathing are over the age of 60, and have other serious pre-existing medical conditions. As in chronic kidney and other major medical issues (including drug abuse, and other diseases leaving them subject to secondary infections), obesity, poor physical health, and other things.

Very few that fall under those categories are in the military. At this time military wide there are just over 1,000 patients that test positive, and only a single death.

I have no problem with his bringing the ship to port, that was a prudent call. It is the decisions made after the fact in what seems to be a state of panic that causes me to consider him unfit to command. But this bringing up ventilation, that is only in the most severe cases, and once again that is not the demographic that these individuals fall into. Panic.

And what does he really expect to be done? What can be done that is not already being done for his ship, and a lot of other units military wide?
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That's not really true about the age thing. There are several factors there and many young people have had to be on ventilation.

More than 50 percent of most severe coronavirus patients in France are under age 60 | TheHill

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Yes, most are older, but the younger patients may still require ventilator.

As for the CO, I have mixed feelings. If he released the memo to the press, he should have known better and deserved to be fired. At the same time, this needs to be addressed quickly and as efficiently as possible while keeping infections low but also maintaining the ships needs.

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The US Navy doesn’t just hand the keys to aircraft carriers anyone. The captain is a USNA graduate and a Naval aviator. I have to believe that he is up to speed on naval rules and regulations. I need to read/hear more about the timeline of how things played out before I can condemn the actions of the captain. He had to know how this was going to play out.........sometimes in life, the correct actions result in penalty.
 
gino said:
Let's be adult about this. Sometimes, you do the right thing and get in trouble anyway. This guy just got the chance to take one for the team. Could it be that both sides are correct? That he was correct to tell and they were right to discipline him?
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That's an interesting interpretation of the facts.

By his actions Crozier did the right thing, he has a commanding position on the moral scale. By rights he should be commended, but I'm not POTUS. He should be awarded for doing the moral thing, the right thing. Those are usually diametrically opposed to the military way, unfortunately. The military brings conspiracy into focus. Smedley Butler was right.
 
Rexedgar said:
The US Navy doesn’t just hand the keys to aircraft carriers anyone. The captain is a USNA graduate and a Naval aviator. I have to believe that he is up to speed on naval rules and regulations. I need to read/hear more about the timeline of how things played out before I can condemn the actions of the captain. He had to know how this was going to play out.........sometimes in life, the correct actions result in penalty.
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You gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for anything. :mrgreen:
 
roguenuke said:
That's not really true about the age thing. There are several factors there and many young people have had to be on ventilation.

More than 50 percent of most severe coronavirus patients in France are under age 60 | TheHill

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Yes, most are older, but the younger patients may still require ventilator.
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And from your own reference:

A study from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CCDC) found the virus poses the greatest threat to elderly people with preexisting health issues.
WHO says that the majority of people who become infected generally experience only mild symptoms, such as cough and fever.
France has more than 5,300 cases with 127 deaths, according to Johns Hopkins University data.
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And once again, look at the stats in the military. Over 1,000 cases, a single death.

Now one of these things is not like the others. One is the "general population". Which we know has a lot of issues. Obesity (often morbid obesity), poor physical fitness, drug and alcohol abuse, all of which leads to things like a much lower chance to fight off infections like this. And add into that the fact that all on the military get the flu shot, and most had the H1N1 shot as well.

Which is not proof against this, but there does seem to be a connection between that and an increased ability to fight this off. And just look at the odds when comparing the US military and "normal French civilians.

US military, around 1 death per 1,000. French citizens, around 60 per 1,000. By those odds, if every single member of that ship came down with this virus, 6 would likely die. Those are pretty damned good odds actually.
 
Oozlefinch said:
And from your own reference:



And once again, look at the stats in the military. Over 1,000 cases, a single death.

Now one of these things is not like the others. One is the "general population". Which we know has a lot of issues. Obesity (often morbid obesity), poor physical fitness, drug and alcohol abuse, all of which leads to things like a much lower chance to fight off infections like this. And add into that the fact that all on the military get the flu shot, and most had the H1N1 shot as well.

Which is not proof against this, but there does seem to be a connection between that and an increased ability to fight this off. And just look at the odds when comparing the US military and "normal French civilians.

US military, around 1 death per 1,000. French citizens, around 60 per 1,000. By those odds, if every single member of that ship came down with this virus, 6 would likely die. Those are pretty damned good odds actually.
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It isn't just about deaths. Plenty of those who have recovered have needed ventilation. Just because only 6 would die, doesn't mean that 120 might not require ventilation.

Plus, when you are running a fever, you get SIQ on a ship. Are we supposed to just work the rest hard for days, maybe even weeks until they get sick or not cover all critical watchstations?
 
roguenuke said:
It isn't just about deaths. Plenty of those who have recovered have needed ventilation. Just because only 6 would die, doesn't mean that 120 might not require ventilation.

Plus, when you are running a fever, you get SIQ on a ship. Are we supposed to just work the rest hard for days, maybe even weeks until they get sick or not cover all critical watchstations?
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They have already been in port for over a week now. He started sending these messages AFTER they reached port. They are just as capable of reaching facilities as anybody else that is stationed at that base.
 
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