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US Navy Working to Keep Subs and Destroyers From Becoming COVID-19 Hotspots

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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US Navy Working to Keep Subs and Destroyers From Becoming COVID-19 Hotspots

Meanwhile, the coronavirus is putting the military health-care system under stress.

defense-large.jpg


3/19/20
Social distancing is tricky on a submarine but the U.S. Navy says that they haven’t had a big problem with COVID-19 spreading aboard ships. “We’ve only had a very small handful of cases,” Rear Adm. Bruce Gillingham, the service’s surgeon general, told reporters today via teleconference. “The Navy is ensuring that sailors who display COVID-19 symptoms are tested, isolated and treated in accordance with Navy and Marine Corps Public Health Center and CDC guidelines.” Right now, the Navy can collect diagnostic samples from a shipboard sailors suspected of having COVID-19, but must send those samples ashore to a DOD lab for processing. While awaiting results, sailors are put into separate quarters. “Navy medical professionals are working with industry to improve at-sea testing methods,” said Gillingham. Fleet commanders instituted a policy several weeks ago that anyone coming aboard the ship would be “screened,” which is rather different from testing. “Those who appeared ill or who did not meet CDC criteria were not allowed aboard ship,” he said. As well, any ship that leaves a port won’t return to that port for at least 14 days. “We have a protocol not only for any patient that would come aboard but also the crew,” he said. “Before the critical core reported today, they were all screened before they cross the brow of the ship.”

Fears that America’s destroyers and fast-attack subs would become gray-hulled versions of COVID-plagued cruise ships are, so far, not materializing. Every sailor so far with the disease has been found while the ship is in port, and immediately isolated, Gillingham said. “We have not seen active transmission” at sea, where social distancing is happening “to the maximum extent possible,” he said. The COVID-19 pandemic is affecting the military’s ability to treat active-duty personnel, their dependents, and veterans, Army Lt. Gen. Ronald Place, director of the Defense Health Agency told reporters. Some 9.5 million people look to the Defense Health Agency for care in its 51 hospitals and 424 treatment clinics, Place said. “Care in these facilities for our beneficiaries is being significantly affected by nation-wide response” he said. Normal beneficiaries were experiencing “stress, inconvenience and disruption to their healthcare,” as more and more staff are assigned to do clinical work. As in other hospitals, elective procedures are being postponed. The Defense Department’s 15 testing labs may yet play a big role in evaluating tests done on civilians. So far, they’ve only tested about 1,000 samples, and just for DoD personnel. “We have the capability, if we had to…to do tens of thousands per day,” he said.
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Basically, it is very possible (very likely actually) that sailors infected with COVID-19 (in the asymptomatic phase) can be allowed on board a departing Navy ship.

That said, I believe the US Navy has the medical and technical capability to manage any on-board COVID-19 incidents.

Related: https://www.debatepolitics.com/mili...-sailor-tests-positive-virus-aboard-ship.html
 
Rogue Valley said:
US Navy Working to Keep Subs and Destroyers From Becoming COVID-19 Hotspots

Meanwhile, the coronavirus is putting the military health-care system under stress.

defense-large.jpg




Basically, it is very possible (very likely actually) that sailors infected with COVID-19 (in the asymptomatic phase) can be allowed on board a departing Navy ship.

That said, I believe the US Navy has the medical and technical capability to manage any on-board COVID-19 incidents.

Related: First US Navy sailor tests positive for virus aboard ship
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Yeah, think how hard that would be to attempt to keep those ships COVID 19 free.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Basically, it is very possible (very likely actually) that sailors infected with COVID-19 (in the asymptomatic phase) can be allowed on board a departing Navy ship.

That said, I believe the US Navy has the medical and technical capability to manage any on-board COVID-19 incidents.
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This is actually rather easy to deal with. And it is something that has been done before.

Before the ship departs, everybody is tested and quarantined for a period of 2 weeks. Test again, they board the ship and depart for a week in the immediate area.

And when they return, they stay out at anchor for 2 weeks to make sure that everybody departing the ship is clean.

This is nothing new, this was the routine for hundreds of years. Most people have simply forgotten because it has been so long since something like this has happened.
 
I have no big worrys about our military other then the inevitable spending cuts so these whore politicians can get their pork.

The Airmen, Sailors, Coast Guard, Army, Marines, are young, strong, dedicated, and most of all disciplined. They are the one group that can be counted on to follow rules, unlike these idiot college kids prancing around beaches in their swim suits not giving a damn about the elderly they will inevitably infect and kill.

The worst thing we can do is throw them on the streets, or elsewhere, as a feel good gesture unless its National Guard in specialized medical units. The armed forces are there to protect America not to tell a long hair to get his spoiled butt inside before he becomes a breathing germ factory.
 
While Pentagon chiefs of 4 stars and 3 stars are telling commanders of facilities and units to handle things locally, the local commanders are reminding their sturdy young troops they are healthy and strong if not wealthy and wise. The troops themselves are looking askance at both levels of commanders while NCO are busy trying to translate between 'em.

The quoted piece noted meanwhile the number of U.S. troops confirmed positive for the virus nearly doubled from 67 on Friday to 133 on Monday. Another 41 service members had tested positive for the disease by Tuesday.


Troops say the US military is not taking COVID-19 seriously

"This is a telling indicator of leadership failure," said one Army officer. "Unfortunately, the outcome has about a two week delay."

MAR 24, 2020

As Task & Purpose reported last week, a number of military units held all-hands meetings with troops packed into theaters days after the World Health Organization classified COVID-19 as a global pandemic and the Trump administration urged Americans to "avoid social gatherings in groups of more than 10 people." Still, some service members expressed concern to Task & Purpose as units around the nation continued to conduct training as normal and work in close proximity. Most spoke on condition of anonymity out of fear of reprisal. That has not been the policy of the Department of Defense, which has given wide latitude to subordinate units through a policy of "commander's discretion," leading to worry among family members and soldiers who can see for themselves the civilian world around them changing as activity on their bases largely remains the same. “I can’t put out a blanket policy, if you will, that we would then apply to everybody because every situation is different,” Defense Secretary Mark Esper said Monday in response to questioning about "inconsistencies" in DoD guidance on social distancing and travel restrictions being carried out at lower levels. “Tell me how I do six feet distancing in an attack submarine. Or how do I do that in a bomber with two pilots sitting side by side?”

The next day, Esper urged the force during a live-streamed town hall to take more proactive measures: "If you can avoid putting a large number of people in a small rooms, you should do it. Hold your meeting outside or maybe meet in smaller groups. Get that social distancing as best you can." Esper also encouraged officers and senior enlisted leaders to privately voice their concerns about not enough social distancing happening within their commands. The Army's 3rd Armored Brigade Combat Team, stationed at Fort Bliss in El Paso, Texas, recently downplayed concerns about the virus in a message to families. "You and your soldier are currently in almost no danger from the coronavirus," a post on Instagram from the unit said. Still, with a variety of different approaches to the pandemic being tried at subordinate units, according to one soldier, there seems to be a disconnect between what the top leadership says and how it is filtered down to lower levels. "A lot of units still think going to the field to train is a priority," the soldier told Task & Purpose. "Leadership is not wanting to hurt their [officer evaluation ratings] so they are doing nothing in hopes higher will make decisions for them."

Troops say the US military is not taking COVID-19 seriously - Task & Purpose
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usaf77 said:
The worst thing we can do is throw them on the streets, or elsewhere, as a feel good gesture unless its National Guard in specialized medical units.
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What "specialized medical units" exactly?

That is not in the National Guard. The medical units are all part of the Army Reserve, not the Guard. And they are not the same thing.

Myself, I am still waiting for the President to start activating Army Reserve units. I have been in medical units in the Army Reserve for the last 8 years.

But that will involve calling up a lot more than just the medical units. They would have to also call up MP units, Sustainment units, and Aviation units in order to support them. Then all the logistics involved with where to place them, and the fact that none are set up for this kind of operation. They are almost universally triage hospitals, not infectious disease operations.

Oh, they might make people feel better, but in reality they will do little good.
 
What "specialized medical units" exactly?

That is not in the National Guard. The medical units are all part of the Army Reserve, not the Guard. And they are not the same thing.
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Your kidding right? You think there are no specialized medical units in the NG? Army National Guard
Pritzker calling up National Guard unit with medical expertise to fight coronavirus - Chicago Tribune
National Guard Jobs: Browse by category Medical

And yeah I know the difference between the NG, the reserves and regular's. I'm a veteran myself.
 
usaf77 said:
Your kidding right? You think there are no specialized medical units in the NG? Army National Guard
Pritzker calling up National Guard unit with medical expertise to fight coronavirus - Chicago Tribune
National Guard Jobs: Browse by category Medical

And yeah I know the difference between the NG, the reserves and regular's. I'm a veteran myself.
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Yea, they called up about half a company of soldiers.

The governor called up 60 service members earlier this week, including 43 airmen from the Peoria-based 182nd Airlift Wing’s Medical Group, and 17 planners and liaison officers from both National Guard and Air National Guard units from across the state.
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That is not calling up a unit, that is calling up a small part of a completely different unit. Like pulling all of the medical personnel out of an Armored Brigade, and putting them to work. In something like this, that is pretty much worthless. A feel good measure, and they will be used in planning, not actually on the street doing anything.

Not like they are calling up the 325 CSH, or 396 CSH. Each of which is a Battalion sized unit, with around 350 individuals in it and can support around 250 casualties.

Calling up a handful of individuals from a larger non-medical unit is not a "specialized medical unit". That is the platoon sized Medical section (BAS in Army terms) of an Airlift Squadron that utilizes the C-130.
 
From what I've read, U.S. submarine crews are already fanatical about hand washing and other cleanliness measures for obvious reasons.
 
A submarine crew can eject an infected member through the torpedo station at 100 feet.
 
Rogue Valley said:
US Navy Working to Keep Subs and Destroyers From Becoming COVID-19 Hotspots

Meanwhile, the coronavirus is putting the military health-care system under stress.

defense-large.jpg




Basically, it is very possible (very likely actually) that sailors infected with COVID-19 (in the asymptomatic phase) can be allowed on board a departing Navy ship.

That said, I believe the US Navy has the medical and technical capability to manage any on-board COVID-19 incidents.

Related: First US Navy sailor tests positive for virus aboard ship
Click to expand...

This proves Trump correct... it is a HOAX. If it was not a HOAX then it would affect the military just as much as it does Joe and Susie America.
 
jamesbyoung said:
A submarine crew can eject an infected member through the torpedo station at 100 feet.
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I am sure that you think that this is really all ****s and giggles... IT ISN'T.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I am sure that you think that this is really all ****s and giggles... IT ISN'T.
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I think you are going where you don't need to go. The armed forces are quite capable of taking care of the good order, discipline, and health of the services.
 
My opinion is evolving, and it is possible that Trump simply used the wrong word in describing this fiasco as a hoax. Perhaps "staged event" would have been a better choice of words.
 
Bodhisattva said:
This proves Trump correct... it is a HOAX. If it was not a HOAX then it would affect the military just as much as it does Joe and Susie America.
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Oh, it is affecting the military.

The difference is that the military is designed and equipped to handle situations like this. We have already seen all regular Guard and Reserve drills cancelled, and all people not required sent home. It is affecting us very much, and is already causing havoc among the Guard and Reserves. My unit regularly has 15-25 people on active duty at any time, doing the day to day things to keep it operating. For the last 2 weeks it has been only a couple.

And being a medical unit, we just got our orders to stand by to be recalled next week. This is not a hoax, but people are blowing it out of proportion.
 
dave8383 said:
Yeah, think how hard that would be to attempt to keep those ships COVID 19 free.
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You can't.....period. Of all the various possibilities of a ship being attacked, the worst case scenario is biological. In the case of the Covid-19 virus, some innocent sailor simply walk past the Quarterdeck in the morning before work and goes to his berthing. Five minutes later that same sailor could hit the chow line, his shop, or what ever. The virus could be spread from the bow to the fantail in 30 minutes.

You can immediately detect radiological and chemicals attacks, and they are controllable to a point after countermeasure wash downs, personal decontamination, and isolating hot spots.

Biological is the "we're all ****ed" scenario because you can't see it, can't read it, and so you resort to wait and see......then isolate.
 
RetiredUSN said:
You can't.....period. Of all the various possibilities of a ship being attacked, the worst case scenario is biological. In the case of the Covid-19 virus, some innocent sailor simply walk past the Quarterdeck in the morning before work and goes to his berthing. Five minutes later that same sailor could hit the chow line, his shop, or what ever. The virus could be spread from the bow to the fantail in 30 minutes.

You can immediately detect radiological and chemicals attacks, and they are controllable to a point after countermeasure wash downs, personal decontamination, and isolating hot spots.

Biological is the "we're all ****ed" scenario because you can't see it, can't read it, and so you resort to wait and see......then isolate.
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Yeah, I remember in basic some sort of nose, throat, and chest virus spread through all 3 barracks in a matter of days. My platoon was in tents and I didn't get it.
 
RetiredUSN said:
You can't.....period. Of all the various possibilities of a ship being attacked, the worst case scenario is biological. In the case of the Covid-19 virus, some innocent sailor simply walk past the Quarterdeck in the morning before work and goes to his berthing. Five minutes later that same sailor could hit the chow line, his shop, or what ever. The virus could be spread from the bow to the fantail in 30 minutes.

You can immediately detect radiological and chemicals attacks, and they are controllable to a point after countermeasure wash downs, personal decontamination, and isolating hot spots.

Biological is the "we're all ****ed" scenario because you can't see it, can't read it, and so you resort to wait and see......then isolate.
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Hell, I was in a 3 week field exercise of a Combat Hospital in 2014 at Fort Hunter-Liggett. And during that 3 weeks I was one of about 1/3 of the staff that got ill. We never figured out exactly what it was, it seemed to affect everybody differently. For some it was a chest infection, or others it was chronic migraines. For me it was a nasty eye infection that had one eye almost completely closed and the other 3/4 closed and both were constantly oozing pus.

One of the permanent party said that was common in large field exercises out there, and it was a combination of several illnesses spread by insects and rodents native to the region.

I have participated in many exercises there before and since, but then as either an observer or as support staff. So always in the barracks each night. And I never got sick then, even living in open squadbays. So I agree it is something environmental and likely related to vermin.

Which is why the military takes such great care with things like hygiene, garbage control, and locating individuals as quickly as possible and isolating them. As all of our illnesses were known and related to environment, isolation was never used.

But infections do not spread quite that fast. COVID seems to have an incubation period of around 5-7 days, the last several they start to experience increasing flu like symptoms. So long as the unit-ship is proactive in self reporting and isolating individuals once symptoms appear, the risk to others can be minimized.

In reality, what you would have is a single cell start, then a week later other cells appearing. Then the week after that it is widespread. And in the general population it is no different. This first started making the news in February, but it was over a month before it became the widespread pandemic it is now. But that is because thanks to modern air travel, people can move well outside of a quarantine zone before they show symptoms.

Quite literally, by the time China and other countries shut the borders, it was already to late.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Hell, I was in a 3 week field exercise of a Combat Hospital in 2014 at Fort Hunter-Liggett. And during that 3 weeks I was one of about 1/3 of the staff that got ill. We never figured out exactly what it was, it seemed to affect everybody differently. For some it was a chest infection, or others it was chronic migraines. For me it was a nasty eye infection that had one eye almost completely closed and the other 3/4 closed and both were constantly oozing pus.

One of the permanent party said that was common in large field exercises out there, and it was a combination of several illnesses spread by insects and rodents native to the region.

I have participated in many exercises there before and since, but then as either an observer or as support staff. So always in the barracks each night. And I never got sick then, even living in open squadbays. So I agree it is something environmental and likely related to vermin.

Which is why the military takes such great care with things like hygiene, garbage control, and locating individuals as quickly as possible and isolating them. As all of our illnesses were known and related to environment, isolation was never used.

But infections do not spread quite that fast. COVID seems to have an incubation period of around 5-7 days, the last several they start to experience increasing flu like symptoms. So long as the unit-ship is proactive in self reporting and isolating individuals once symptoms appear, the risk to others can be minimized.

In reality, what you would have is a single cell start, then a week later other cells appearing. Then the week after that it is widespread. And in the general population it is no different. This first started making the news in February, but it was over a month before it became the widespread pandemic it is now. But that is because thanks to modern air travel, people can move well outside of a quarantine zone before they show symptoms.

Quite literally, by the time China and other countries shut the borders, it was already to late.
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The incubation period of 5-7 days for a ship that left port 7 days ago is enough to contaminate the entire crew. Nobody would escape the bug.

100 men jammed into tight crew berthings.

Tightly packed chow lines 200 feet long.

100 sailors to one head.

Even the officers eat and congregate in tight areas.

Contaminated air being recirculated every 4-5 minutes by the fan rooms.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The incubation period of 5-7 days for a ship that left port 7 days ago is enough to contaminate the entire crew. Nobody would escape the bug.

100 men jammed into tight crew berthings.

Tightly packed chow lines 200 feet long.

100 sailors to one head.

Even the officers eat and congregate in tight areas.

Contaminated air being recirculated every 4-5 minutes by the fan rooms.
Click to expand...

When sailors set off for a six month tour then surely a two week quarantine before they set off is both doable and prudent.

Yes they will need to forgo port calls, but they can get over it.

Give em our best test as well!
 
RetiredUSN said:
The incubation period of 5-7 days for a ship that left port 7 days ago is enough to contaminate the entire crew. Nobody would escape the bug.

100 men jammed into tight crew berthings.

Tightly packed chow lines 200 feet long.

100 sailors to one head.

Even the officers eat and congregate in tight areas.

Contaminated air being recirculated every 4-5 minutes by the fan rooms.
Click to expand...

That is where self-reporting and isolation is so important. It was mandatory whenever I was aboard ship. Of course, they also jammed us supercargo in like sardines.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
When sailors set off for a six month tour then surely a two week quarantine before they set off is both doable and prudent.

Yes they will need to forgo port calls, but they can get over it.

Give em our best test as well!
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My longest stint at sea was 149 days straight off of Liberia evacuating refugees to Freetown. Crews have a way of making their own entertainment, and a good captain will overlook some of the pranking that goes on.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Yes they will need to forgo port calls, but they can get over it.
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Port calls do a great many things. They are not just a vacation for those on the ship.

For one, it is the chance for a large scale replenishment, more than can be done during an UNREP.

Also, it is "showing the flag", both to our allies and out potential adversaries. It shows those we are friendly to that we "have their back". It shows potential adversaries what we have, and what we can do with it. That is why we not only pull into ports in Taiwan and Italy, but also Egypt, Russia, China, and other countries.

And most times the higher ups are working out operations with the nation we are in port to visit. Most times an Amphibious Group makes such a call, it is followed quickly by a Joint Service Operation with that nation. We pick up a few of their people, and leave behind some of ours. Then we do operations like an Amphibious Assault (or defend against one), working with the host nation.

Most port calls are half mini-vacation for those on board, and half political and military alliance building. Plus allowing needed maintenance to be done on systems that can not be easily fixed while at sea.
 
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