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WH memo: No mention of imminent threat

Jredbaron96 said:
Of if I had to guess, it may have something to do with American policy makers pretty much stating they wanted to invade Iran. I mean, that might be a clue.

"Seven countries in five years" | Salon.com


You wanna know the crazy part? In between 9/11 and Bush's axis of evil speech we actually worked with Iran. Iran hated the Taliban because back in 1998 they murdered a bunch of Iranian diplomats and Iran almost invaded. Not longer after we identified the Taliban as harboring Bin Laden the Iranians were feeding us intelligence on Taliban positions and forces in Afghanistan.
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So in your mind Iran’s was justified to kill hundreds of Americans based on a former US general who made some unsubstantiated claims years after we invaded Iraq about a memo he not only claims he never read but later backed off of and said it wasn’t a real plan.

Like I said to ER When the basis of your entire argument is it’s always America’s fault I guess you will believe anything no matter how ridiculous.

Forgive me if I don’t take anything else you say seriously.
 
braindrain said:
So in your mind Iran’s was justified to kill hundreds of Americans based on a former US general who made some unsubstantiated claims years after we invaded Iraq about a memo he not only claims he never read but later backed off of and said it wasn’t a real plan.
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Please point out where I said Iran was justified in killing hundreds of Americans.

Second, General Wesley Clark was and remains a highly respected military veteran, and furthermore his statements were corroborated by numerous others. If you believe he is lying I'm sure you can provide some proof of it.

Like I said to ER When the basis of your entire argument is it’s always America’s fault I guess you will believe anything no matter how ridiculous.
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Are you denying that we worked with Iran for a brief period after 9/11?
 
braindrain said:
So let’s try and follow you logic. Iraq invades it’s tiny neighbor who then requests international assistance. The US and a large coalition of countries respond and in doing so kill many Iraqis as they free the country of Kuwait. Then years later after many many violations of the United Nations resolutions put in place against Iraq the US and allied nations invaded Iraq to remove a leader who has killed many thousands of his own people. Meanwhile Iran which has played no part in any of this decides to send its terrorist organization into Iraq to kill Americans and many Iraqis civilians. And due to your seething hatred for the US you think Iran was justified in doing so and the US is at fault for killing the Iranian who was in the middle of planning attacks against America and it allies.


So if someone breaks in to my house and I ask you to come help me kick them out that makes it ok for my neighbor to attack your family. That’s essentially what you are saying.

If this involved anyone other then the US you would not be taking Iran’s side so forgive me if I could not care less what you think.
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Braindrain:

Way to go, Braindrain. Congratulations! You completely missed the point of my post and laminated over it your own biases and preconceptions. Soleimani was an officer in the Iranian Military. His assassination was an act of war against Iran (and Iraq too). No state of war exists between either Iran or Iraq and the US Government. The POTUS does not have the power to commit acts of war without Congressional authorisation, unless and only unless, there is an imminent threat to the United States. When challenged on this point President Trump lied, claiming there was an imminent threat. He acted illegally according to US law and the US constitution. The memo proves there was no consideration of imminent threat before the attacks were ordered an launched and other evidence points to the assassination as being an attack of opportunity coordinated with another assassination attempt against an Iranian officer in Yemen, which failed. Thus President Trump violated the US constitution, a crime. He lied to cover up that crime, another crime.

That was the point of my post, which you so completely missed or chose to ignore.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Rogue Valley said:
White House memo on Soleimani strike makes no mention of imminent threat



Yet another Trump/WH lie that led to the downing of Ukrainian International Airlines flight PS-752 killing all 167 aboard and 109 US soldiers in Iraq affected with traumatic brain injury (TBI) from an Iranian missile attack.

Trump needed a distraction with the beginning of the Senate impeachment trial and House Managers presenting evidence for the two Articles of Impeachment.

All of this death and suffering resulted from a dishonest Trump strike-predicate.
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My heart just aches for all the people on that airliner that died unnecessarily, prompted by our attack.
 
roughdraft274 said:
He targeted a US citizen, but the person was an enemy combatant and a member of an organization that the US congress has declared war against (Al-Qaeda).

So bringing up the killing of an enemy combatant is nothing but a red herring and a demonstration that you are unable to refute my points.
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He killed a U.S. citizen, denying that citizen his civil rights. Should any president who extrajudicially executes a citizen of the republic be impeached and removed from office at all possible haste?
 
Lursa said:
My heart just aches for all the people on that airliner that died unnecessarily, prompted by our attack.
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Yeah, if the Iranians hadn't shot the aircraft down, they would all still be alive.
 
braindrain said:
If you don’t think Hussein would have killed Powell or Chaney if they had the opportunity then you are delusional.
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Hell, he tried to kill President Bush in 1993. The President launched a huge cruise missile attack on Iraq in response.

What I am finding so sad is the number of people who are actually defending a terrorist. Why, because of TrUmP. Those with TDS are many times worse than even those with ODS.
 
apdst said:
He killed a U.S. citizen, denying that citizen his civil rights. Should any president who extrajudicially executes a citizen of the republic be impeached and removed from office at all possible haste?
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Now you're just changing the subject completely. An enemy combatant that the congress has declared war on is very different than killing any old civilian, the same way a police officer is allowed to shoot someone who is an active threat, but not some guy sitting at a table merely planning out evil things. Very different. And you are obfuscating because you can't logically argue the point.
 
Lursa said:
My heart just aches for all the people on that airliner that died unnecessarily, prompted by our attack.
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No, they were killed because of the incompetence of the Iraqi military.

Now I might accept that, if the aircraft was coming in to land at that airport. But that is not the case at all, the jet had just left the airport, had been cleared to depart, and was both climbing and leaving. The attack had nothing to do with that, it was gross stupidity.

Then add to it they knew immediately what happened, but tried to cover it up for days. Even trying to blame the downing on the US.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Now you're just changing the subject completely. An enemy combatant that the congress has declared war on is very different than killing any old civilian, the same way a police officer is allowed to shoot someone who is an active threat, but not some guy sitting at a table merely planning out evil things. Very different. And you are obfuscating because you can't logically argue the point.
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When did Congress declare war on a U.S. citizen?
 
Oozlefinch said:
No, they were killed because of the incompetence of the Iraqi military.

Now I might accept that, if the aircraft was coming in to land at that airport. But that is not the case at all, the jet had just left the airport, had been cleared to depart, and was both climbing and leaving. The attack had nothing to do with that, it was gross stupidity.

Then add to it they knew immediately what happened, but tried to cover it up for days. Even trying to blame the downing on the US.
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I'm still no convinced it wasn't a false flag operation.
 
apdst said:
I'm still no convinced it wasn't a false flag operation.
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The only problem with that was that it was not even known until after Kuwait arrested those involved with the explosives. The US was not even informed of this until after President Bush left the country.

The arrest was on 13 April 1993, the visit was on 14-16 April. The US was not even told of the attempt until 22 April, and sent explosives experts on 29 April to go over the evidence.

That is not a false flag. The attempt was covered up from all sides until 27 June 1993, when the US presented it's evidence to the UNSC.
 
Oozlefinch said:
The only problem with that was that it was not even known until after Kuwait arrested those involved with the explosives. The US was not even informed of this until after President Bush left the country.

The arrest was on 13 April 1993, the visit was on 14-16 April. The US was not even told of the attempt until 22 April, and sent explosives experts on 29 April to go over the evidence.

That is not a false flag. The attempt was covered up from all sides until 27 June 1993, when the US presented it's evidence to the UNSC.
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I'm referring to the shootdown in Iran.
 
apdst said:
When did Congress declare war on a U.S. citizen?
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I stated very clearly that he was a member of an organization that they declared war on. I never said congress declared on him individually.

You seem to think that if you just confuse the issue and refuse to argue the actual facts presented that you are going to get somewhere. In reality it just shows people that you aren't up to the task of an honest debate. You should really think about that.
 
roughdraft274 said:
I stated very clearly that he was a member of an organization that they declared war on. I never said congress declared on him individually.

You seem to think that if you just confuse the issue and refuse to argue the actual facts presented that you are going to get somewhere. In reality it just shows people that you aren't up to the task of an honest debate. You should really think about that.
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He was still a U.S. citizen, who had the same civil rights as any other citizen of The United States.

You're the one that brought up "a Democrat president killing anyone he wanted". You seem to be ok with that. But, you're but hurt because Trump zapped an actual terrorist.
 
Oozlefinch said:
No, they were killed because of the incompetence of the Iraqi military.

Now I might accept that, if the aircraft was coming in to land at that airport. But that is not the case at all, the jet had just left the airport, had been cleared to depart, and was both climbing and leaving. The attack had nothing to do with that, it was gross stupidity.

Then add to it they knew immediately what happened, but tried to cover it up for days. Even trying to blame the downing on the US.
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They wouldnt have been firing at anyone had we not attacked them...on what seems more and more like false pretenses.

So we initiated the actions that the Iraqis responded to (incompetently) and many innocent people died.
 
apdst said:
He was still a U.S. citizen, who had the same civil rights as any other citizen of The United States.

You're the one that brought up "a Democrat president killing anyone he wanted". You seem to be ok with that. But, you're but hurt because Trump zapped an actual terrorist.
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Unless he was an actual enemy fighter for an organization that has declared war on the US.

Just because you can't comprehend the difference doesn't mean they are the same. Killing an enemy combatant that the congress has declared war on is different than killing a bad guy from another country that congress has not authorized the use of military force on either the country he represents. The us citizenship issue you are bringing up has nothing to do with the discussion. You are diverting, again and again and again, because you don't have the facts on your side.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Unless he was an actual enemy fighter for an organization that has declared war on the US.

Just because you can't comprehend the difference doesn't mean they are the same. Killing an enemy combatant that the congress has declared war on is different than killing a bad guy from another country that congress has not authorized the use of military force on either the country he represents. The us citizenship issue you are bringing up has nothing to do with the discussion. You are diverting, again and again and again, because you don't have the facts on your side.
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He commanded the Quds Force, which has been designated as a terrorist organization.

It's funny watching you trip all over your pecker on this one. :lamo
 
apdst said:
He commanded the Quds Force, which has been designated as a terrorist organization.

It's funny watching you trip all over your pecker on this one. :lamo
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Again, you bring up a fact that doesn't matter. The quds force isn't in the AUMF.

It's just sad that you keep flailing in the wind like this.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Again, you bring up a fact that doesn't matter. The quds force isn't in the AUMF.

It's just sad that you keep flailing in the wind like this.
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Still waiting for you to tell us about that U.S. citizen that Congress declared war on.
 
Lursa said:
They wouldnt have been firing at anyone had we not attacked them...on what seems more and more like false pretenses.

So we initiated the actions that the Iraqis responded to (incompetently) and many innocent people died.
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Do you really think that Iran gives a damn?

Remember, this is a nation that killed a young woman in 2009 during a peaceful protest.

Then many times since changed their story. Originally they tried to claim she was a "Western Fraud", and she was not really dead but it was all fake. And more recently, the "official line" is that she was killed by "Western Intelligence", in order to pin the blame on Iran. Some even go so far as to say Neda was involved in her own death, arranging for herself to be killed by "Anti-Iranian Organizations" just to make the country look bad.

All insane, yet even 10 years later, that is what they tell their own people, and anybody else who will listen. Of course, they also deny protests even happened in the first place

Heck, are you even aware that since November the nation has had almost constant protests and even riots? With over 1,500 killed since it started? Or that the government has essentially authorized hit squads to put an end to them?

After days of protests across Iran last month, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei appeared impatient. Gathering his top security and government officials together, he issued an order: Do whatever it takes to stop them.


That order, confirmed by three sources close to the supreme leader’s inner circle and a fourth official, set in motion the bloodiest crackdown on protesters since the Islamic Revolution in 1979.

About 1,500 people were killed during less than two weeks of unrest that started on Nov. 15. The toll, provided to Reuters by three Iranian interior ministry officials, included at least 17 teenagers and about 400 women as well as some members of the security forces and police.
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Special Report: Iran’s leader ordered crackdown on unrest - 'Do whatever it takes to end it' - Reuters

You see, this is the kind of selective commenting that largely makes me ignore certain things. You really do not care about the dead or not it seems to me. They are largely meaningless, you only care about trying to somehow blame the US for it. Sorry, can't do that because it simply makes no sense.
 
apdst said:
Still waiting for you to tell us about that U.S. citizen that Congress declared war on.
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Don't expect it any time soon.

More and more often when things like this come up, reality is pointless, and people only run on emotion, feelings, and their irrationality.

I am still waiting for President Trump to order everybody to breathe at least once a minute, and see all those scream and refuse to breathe in protest. It has almost gotten to that point now.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Don't expect it any time soon.

More and more often when things like this come up, reality is pointless, and people only run on emotion, feelings, and their irrationality.

I am still waiting for President Trump to order everybody to breathe at least once a minute, and see all those scream and refuse to breathe in protest. It has almost gotten to that point now.
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Oh, I know. Just calling out the lies.
 
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