Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abilities

marke · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

Peter King said:
He did not lead government secrets, he did his job. Manafort is as crooked as can be, sadly you determine guilt and innocence on what Trump feels is the truth and not based on the actual truth.

Vindman shared his take on the secret phone call with his brother and at least two others. By law he was not authorized to leak details of the call to anyone except for his boss, Mr. Morrison, whom he did not discuss the call with at all.

TheDoctorWasIn · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

marke said:
Vindman shared his take on the secret phone call with his brother and at least two others. By law he was not authorized to leak details of the call to anyone except for his boss, Mr. Morrison, whom he did not discuss the call with at all.

What law says that?

marke · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

Tangmo said:
You and your guys are the crew who tried to sell refrigerators to Eskimos and beach sand in Cancun.

Barr is the horse's ass First Consul Caligula appointed so you go ahead with that.

Settle down. If democrats have done nothing wrong they have nothing to fear from Barr.

marke · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

TheDoctorWasIn said:
What law says that?

It was not the democrat version to which Vindman swore to when he took the job at the NSC:

I the undersigned do solemnly swear to use every means at my disposal to portray President Trump as a danger to America who must be removed with all dispatch from the White House. Those means include leaking twisted versions of secret White House communications to friends, family members, news outlets, and others as necessary to help create the impression that President Trump is conducting business in ways that endanger American safety and security."

TheDoctorWasIn · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

marke said:
It was not the democrat version to which Vindman swore to when he took the job at the NSC:

I the undersigned do solemnly swear to use every means at my disposal to portray President Trump as a danger to America who must be removed with all dispatch from the White House. Those means include leaking twisted versions of secret White House communications to friends, family members, news outlets, and others as necessary to help create the impression that President Trump is conducting business in ways that endanger American safety and security."

So you can't actually point to a law. I'm not surprised.

marke · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

TheDoctorWasIn said:
So you can't actually point to a law. I'm not surprised.

My bad? Leaking government secrets all over town is not illegal? Are you sure about that?

TheDoctorWasIn · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

marke said:
My bad? Leaking government secrets all over town is not illegal? Are you sure about that?

What "government secrets" are you referring to?

Show me the law that you think was broken.

marke · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

TheDoctorWasIn said:
What "government secrets" are you referring to?

Show me the law that you think was broken.

Do you believe Trump's phone call to Zelensky was not supposed to be a protected government secret? Do you think all diplomatic phone calls are matters of public record by law which should be open for airing on public media at any time for any reason?

Tangmo · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

marke said:
Settle down. If democrats have done nothing wrong they have nothing to fear from Barr.

I'm actually speechless.

TheDoctorWasIn · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

marke said:
Do you believe Trump's phone call to Zelensky was not supposed to be a protected government secret? Do you think all diplomatic phone calls are matters of public record by law which should be open for airing on public media at any time for any reason?

Show. Me. The. Law.

It shouldn't be this difficult - you made the claim, now back it up.

marke · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

TheDoctorWasIn said:
Show. Me. The. Law.

It shouldn't be this difficult - you made the claim, now back it up.

There are laws against leaking government secrets, but I am not familiar with what their specific numbers are. Can you prove there are no laws against revealing government secrets?

marke · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

TheDoctorWasIn said:
Show. Me. The. Law.

It shouldn't be this difficult - you made the claim, now back it up.

Unauthorized leaks of government secrets are very bad, with some doing more damage to others. Here is an excellent article:

"Each year, countless unauthorized leaks cause severe damage to our intelligence activities and expose our capabilities. The fact of the matter is, some of the worst damage done to our intelligence community has come not from penetration by spies, but from unauthorized leaks by those with access to classified information."

Secrets and Leaks: The Costs and Consequences for National Security | The Heritage Foundation

vegas giants · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

marke said:
Unauthorized leaks of government secrets are very bad, with some doing more damage to others. Here is an excellent article:

"Each year, countless unauthorized leaks cause severe damage to our intelligence activities and expose our capabilities. The fact of the matter is, some of the worst damage done to our intelligence community has come not from penetration by spies, but from unauthorized leaks by those with access to classified information."

Secrets and Leaks: The Costs and Consequences for National Security | The Heritage Foundation

Then why doesnt trump indict him?

Is he a helpless kitten?

marke · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

vegas giants said:
Then why doesnt trump indict him?

Is he a helpless kitten?

It seems to me Trump is allowing Barr to handle these things in his own way and according to his own timing.

vegas giants · Feb 16, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

marke said:
It seems to me Trump is allowing Barr to handle these things in his own way and according to his own timing.

I guess he has no evidence.

Fail

Tangmo · Feb 17, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

TheDoctorWasIn said:
The question of whether or not Flynn lied is not really in dispute. It's on tape.

The FBI asked Flynn if he had spoken to the Russian ambassador about sanctions. He said no. The FBI agents interviewing him said he didnt sound like he was lying - but he was, because the FBI had a recording of his call with the Russian ambassador, and on that call Flynn discussed ending the sanctions.

Indeed Flynn rose to become the 3-star commander of Defense Intelligence Agency because of his recognized brilliance in reinventing military intelligence (a much denigrated term ha). Flynn grew up on the mean streets of South Boston ("Southie") so he learned subterfuge, betrayal and survival from early on and was undoubtedly its best learner and disciple.

Flynn was inserted into the Putin-Trump campaign where he was made foreign policy boss then went on to become the Putin-Trump national security adviser who was focused (unsuccessfully) on getting sanctions against Russia lifted. Earlier Flynn had sitteth at the right hand of Putin at the RT anniversary dinner in Moscow for which Flynn pocketed $40K while establishing contacts in Russian intelligence via existing contacts and with Putin himself as Flynn's entree. Flynn's civilian career in subterfuge and espionage was a disaster from the getgo however given his high profile and clumsy pandering to Putin that cost him once he became NSA of the United States.

While Flynn is retired he remains subject to the UCMJ due to his pension and other benefits of honorable service provided by the taxpayer yet Trump isn't ever going to apply the UCMJ to Flynn's case despite the compelling nature of it in this respect. Trump's political base would never accept any such thing nor would Trump himself consider it. In the exact opposite instance Pentagon will never accept Trump trying to apply the UCMJ to LTC Vindman for his courageous and noble performance of his duties as a senior Russia-Ukraine expert to the chairman JCS and then as detailed to the WH NSC.

While Trump is incensed over the impeachment Vindman enabled it seems that Putin-Trump via Barr are more concerned to get Flynn relieved of his guilty plea lest other Putin-Trump operatives in the US conclude that they're not as well covered and protected as they had been led to believe they were. So the present dilemma is that Flynn has to be either scrubbed clean of charges and his guilty plea or he needs to be made to be such an extremely hapless operative that his conviction would be accepted as unavoidable and self inflicted. Hence the caution by the Putin-Trump Rowers concerning Barr's fly by night investigative team operating outside the margins of the DOJ.

dave8383 · Feb 17, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

Tangmo said:
Indeed Flynn rose to become the 3-star commander of Defense Intelligence Agency because of his recognized brilliance in reinventing military intelligence (a much denigrated term ha). Flynn grew up on the mean streets of South Boston ("Southie") so he learned subterfuge, betrayal and survival from early on and was undoubtedly its best learner and disciple.

Actually Flynn was born and raised in Middletown R.I. General Joe Dunford, grew up in Quincy Ma., near South Boston, and Gen. Kelly is from Brighton Ma which is part of Boston.

Tangmo · Feb 17, 2020

Re: Top Armed Services Republican: Vindman's 'career needs to proceed based on his talents & abiliti

dave8383 said:
Actually Flynn was born and raised in Middletown R.I. General Joe Dunford, grew up in Quincy Ma., near South Boston, and Gen. Kelly is from Brighton Ma which is part of Boston.

True thx about Flynn as I seemed to get fast and loose about all these Irish Catholic rightwing boys from my NE corner of the US -- your modest sized rightwing corner too of course.

Flynn is in fact a grad of URI Rotc while Kelly is a grad of UMass Naval Rotc Marine option after having done an enlisted tour in the Crotch to include separation as E-5.

Dunford is an Rotc grad of little and rural St. Michael's College in VT where he also took the Marine Corps option and seemed to opt for a Jesuit kind of approach once he became chairman of JCS in 2015 given his proclivity for a silent and reflective leadership style that seemed bookish at times and that drove Trump up a wall. This is in contrast to Dunford's career record in the Crotch that earned him the nick "Fighting Joe" Dunford so old Joe seemed to indicate what can happen to a general once he's in Washington ha. Dunford retired last fall after 43 years in to include CMC.

The current CJCS Mark Milley is from the upscale Winchester burb outside of Boston who did Princeton Rotc and had previously been Army CofS due to Bob Gates giving Obama a call from his own retirement that resulted in Milley getting jumped over several senior 4-star officers for CSA. While Gates knew Milley from his being military assistant to the SecDef OB included meeting meeting Milley in AFG given nobody in Washington knew Milley due to his endless succession of foreign combatant commands to include 10th Mountain Division while he was a 2-star and an air assault brigade of the 101st as a 1-star. Milley notes that as as a colonel in year 2000 he was ready to call it a career until 9/11 when Milley said he had to see it through to its completion, which is still pending of course. Methinks btw nobody in the world has more contempt toward Russia than Milley does...nobody as his record of statements shows.