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Top military officials threatened to resign

Trump didn't halt it.

He instead fired the Navy Secretary.

Trump rigged the process because he could. In his own self interest. It's called an abuse of office.

President Obama did the same thing with two famous cases during his presidency. Don't buck Trump if you aren't willing to call out Obama for the same thing.

For those of you younger folks, it is in all of our best interest for the military to be run by a civilian. Military people tend to be hammers that see every problem as a nail.
If you really want to see how bad it can get, find out what the secdef said about the Cuban Missile Crisis.
 
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President Obama did the same thing with two famous cases during his presidency. Don't buck Trump if you aren't willing to call out Obama for the same thing.

For those of you younger folks, it is in all of our best interest for the military to be run by a civilian. Military people tend to be hammers that see every problem as a nail.
If you really want to see how bad it can get, find out what the secdef said about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I entered college and Rotc the month before the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I saw SecDef MacNamara say it afterward on our tv.

You'd need also to present the two cases you refer to and argue your points about 'em if you want to be taken seriously, credibly, authentically.
 
If those "top" military leaders want to resign, there are plenty of officers who would be delighted to fill their places.

It's not the top military chiefs and theater commanders across the armed forces who need to be gone.
 
Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl and Chelsea Manning are the two famous cases that President Obama botched badly. By any objective assessment, President Obama REALLY screwed up with these two cases, much worse than what President Trump has done. I have a problem when people on the left charge President Trump with a crime that President Obama committed to an even worse degree. Please stop the hypocrisy.


I mentioned SECDEF McNamara, but I was talking about what he said in "The Fog of War". He stated that during the Cuban Missile Crisis, many of his high-level military advisors were advocating a first strike nuclear attack on the USSR. Just goes to show that the military needs to have civilian oversite. BADLY!
 
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Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl and Chelsea Manning are the two famous cases that President Obama botched badly. By any objective assessment, President Obama REALLY screwed up with these two cases, much worse than what President Trump has done. I have a problem when people on the left charge President Trump with a crime that President Obama committed to an even worse degree. Please stop the hypocrisy.


I mentioned SECDEF McNamara, but I was talking about what he said in "The Fog of War". He stated that during the Cuban Missile Crisis, many of his high-level military advisors were advocating a first strike nuclear attack on the USSR. Just goes to show that the military needs to have civilian oversite. BADLY!

Get off the whataboutism. Trump is in office now.
 
Get off the whataboutism. Trump is in office now.

Nope. I have the right to point out when you are being a hypocrite. Don't try to hold President Trump to a standard that you don't hold your own to.
Bad form. And being a poor sport.
 
Nope. I have the right to point out when you are being a hypocrite. Don't try to hold President Trump to a standard that you don't hold your own to.
Bad form. And being a poor sport.


I'm being a hypocrite? How do you know what I felt about anything Obama did? You don't.

This is 2019. Trump is the CIC. This case with the SEAL is about this case with the SEAL, period. It isn't about Bergdahl or Calley or Obama or Nixon or George Washington.
 
Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl and Chelsea Manning are the two famous cases that President Obama botched badly. By any objective assessment, President Obama REALLY screwed up with these two cases, much worse than what President Trump has done. I have a problem when people on the left charge President Trump with a crime that President Obama committed to an even worse degree. Please stop the hypocrisy.


I mentioned SECDEF McNamara, but I was talking about what he said in "The Fog of War". He stated that during the Cuban Missile Crisis, many of his high-level military advisors were advocating a first strike nuclear attack on the USSR. Just goes to show that the military needs to have civilian oversite. BADLY!

Unless you were in the Air Force that would be oversight.

I hope you didn't pay some service that writes hit and run summary reports for high school sophomores as your first paragraph. The paragraph lite hasn't any facts, issues, points of law based in the UCMJ, arguments pro and con and so on. Folk here would need a weekend of cramming to fill in the cavernous vacuum of exclusively judgmental opinion you wrote.

As to your second paragraph civilian authority over the military is a core value of the American republic and its democracy. That said, Trump took his oath to the Constitution then wiped his ass with it in a same day turnaround.

I'd suggest you research what's been said about Trump by Gen. McCaffrey retired, Admiral McRaven retired and Gen. Hyten who this year became vice chairman of JCS, among many other distinguished military chiefs and commanders who take seriously and profoundly their oath to the Constitution. Because while Bergdahl and Manning were two grains of sand to the Obama presidency Gallagher is a sinkhole to the Trump presidency, and a huge one besides.
 
Unless you were in the Air Force that would be oversight.

I hope you didn't pay some service that writes hit and run summary reports for high school sophomores as your first paragraph. The paragraph lite hasn't any facts, issues, points of law based in the UCMJ, arguments pro and con and so on. Folk here would need a weekend of cramming to fill in the cavernous vacuum of exclusively judgmental opinion you wrote.

As to your second paragraph civilian authority over the military is a core value of the American republic and its democracy. That said, Trump took his oath to the Constitution then wiped his ass with it in a same day turnaround.

I'd suggest you research what's been said about Trump by Gen. McCaffrey retired, Admiral McRaven retired and Gen. Hyten who this year became vice chairman of JCS, among many other distinguished military chiefs and commanders who take seriously and profoundly their oath to the Constitution. Because while Bergdahl and Manning were two grains of sand to the Obama presidency Gallagher is a sinkhole to the Trump presidency, and a huge one besides.

Those 2 grains of sand cost soldiers their lives.

How can you be so pompous and ignorant at the same time?
 
Those 2 grains of sand cost soldiers their lives.

How can you be so pompous and ignorant at the same time?

You would spend the rest of your life trying to find anywhere and anytime I said I approved of 'em, Bergdahl and Manning. Bergdahl is a severe individual case and Manning is the only solder in history to have both his head up his arse and her head up her arse in one lifetime.

I'm posting in reply to the posts of gino saying or implying Bergdahl and Manning were of same, like or similar significance or consequence to the Obama presidency as Gallagher is to the Trump presidency. Gallagher is the point of no return at the Pentagon vis a vis Trump and his space cadet command authority over the armed services and his shredding of the Constitution.
 
You would spend the rest of your life trying to find anywhere and anytime I said I approved of 'em, Bergdahl and Manning. Bergdahl is a severe individual case and Manning is the only solder in history to have both his head up his arse and her head up her arse in one lifetime.

I'm posting in reply to the posts of gino saying or implying Bergdahl and Manning were of same, like or similar significance or consequence to the Obama presidency as Gallagher is to the Trump presidency. Gallagher is the point of no return at the Pentagon vis a vis Trump and his space cadet command authority over the armed services and his shredding of the Constitution.

Grains of sand.

Freudian slip, I'm sure. :roll:
 
Marching ones at that.

Military fetish has to do, because they don't actually go the distance.

Stolen valor comes into play at the same time to some extent.

I’m kinda curious about all this training on the constitution he mentioned. I must have slept through that class during my officer training.
 
Grains of sand.

Freudian slip, I'm sure. :roll:

Again, I speak of the impact of Bergdahl and Manning on the Obama presidency vs the impact of Gallagher on the Trump presidency in respect of the armed forces.

Indeed, I put Snowden and Manning together and call it military justice. With Bergdahl each of the three should be looking at 40 years minimum.

Trump relates to Gallagher because each is in his own world and out for his own individual kicks. For the Pentagon and geographic commands around the world Gallagher was the end of their forbearance of Trump-Putin.

Neither Bergdahl nor Manning came close to bringing Obama down despite the harm each did to armed forces and intelligence personnel and to the national security and defense. Gallagher is however the endgame against Trump with the armed forces chiefs and commanders. Similar to Mattis with Trump over Iraq-Syria. Armed forces chiefs and commanders can remain in place however because they don't have the visibility and media attention Mattis had as SecDef.
 
Again, I speak of the impact of Bergdahl and Manning on the Obama presidency vs the impact of Gallagher on the Trump presidency in respect of the armed forces.

Indeed, I put Snowden and Manning together and call it military justice. With Bergdahl each of the three should be looking at 40 years minimum.

Trump relates to Gallagher because each is in his own world and out for his own individual kicks. For the Pentagon and geographic commands around the world Gallagher was the end of their forbearance of Trump-Putin.

Neither Bergdahl nor Manning came close to bringing Obama down despite the harm each did to armed forces and intelligence personnel and to the national security and defense. Gallagher is however the endgame against Trump with the armed forces chiefs and commanders. Similar to Mattis with Trump over Iraq-Syria. Armed forces chiefs and commanders can remain in place however because they don't have the visibility and media attention Mattis had as SecDef.

Piss poor analogy on your part when you mention those two as grains of salt. WOW! :shock:

Ever lost close friends in theater, or on some routine & boring deployment?

I lost a 9 good shipmates and 2 marines over my career, and it still hurts today.

Grains of salt. :roll:
 
Piss poor analogy on your part when you mention those two as grains of salt. WOW! :shock:

Ever lost close friends in theater, or on some routine & boring deployment?

I lost a 9 good shipmates and 2 marines over my career, and it still hurts today.

Grains of salt. :roll:

Yes I have.
 
Then you of all people should know better!

I posted that Bergdahl, Manning, Snowden were grains of sand in their impact on the Obama presidency compared to Gallagher and his impact on the Trump presidency.

That's grains of sand, not salt as you misquote me in your righteous rightwing rage of fist waving lecturing and scolding from down there in the engine room. All three are alive and kicking btw.

While Bergdahl was a psycho, Manning was a flake and Snowden a turncoat, none of the three estranged the armed forces chiefs and commanders from Obama. While Obama screwed the pooch on each of 'em no one resigned or retired because of any of the three or due to all of 'em.

In contrast, Gallagher is by virtually all accounts the same as Trump, ie, all about himself. Gallagher and Trump are two of a kind, ie, lawless. Of all else Trump has accumulated against himself since taking office -- from Nato to Kim Jong Un -- his patting Gallagher on the back is the point of no return for armed forces chiefs and commanders across the services.

Chairman of JCS Gen. Milley embodies the powerfully negative response of the armed forces chiefs and commanders across the board concerning Gallagher. At the time of Bergdahl Milley was commander of Army Forces Command that does unit and force deployments so he got the case to examine and decide. It was up to Milley and he came in with the court martial for desertion recommendation. So Trump with Gallagher has turned Milley's stomach.

Most in the armed services did not like Obama and disapproved of him yet by the Military Times surveys and polls Trump is only somewhat ahead of Obama in the favorable / unfavorable view of each by the armed forces. Obama's survey favorables ended in the high 30s percentile while Trump's favorables have settled into the low 40s. The two of 'em are almost close enough to reach across the fence and shake hands on it.
 
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