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Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

ecofarm said:
Democracy and Western values became global influences, however unclear the local arena. Vietnam was, in some way, the birth of globalism.
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I’m holding back with my initial reaction to your posting; I wanna call BS, but I’m not sure I’m clear on your position.

What does the bolded mean?
 
Rexedgar said:
I’m holding back with my initial reaction to your posting; I wanna call BS, but I’m not sure I’m clear on your position.

What does the bolded mean?
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In Vietnam, the West demonstrated a willingness to engage in the political outcome of what were, at the time, "far away lands". It was the realization of globalization politically. It was the beginning of a global community of free nations.
 
ecofarm said:
In Vietnam, the West demonstrated a willingness to engage in the political outcome of what were, at the time, "far away lands". It was the realization of globalization politically. It was the beginning of a global community of free nations.
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My understanding of the history post WW2 as far as Indo-China is different than what I think I am understanding of your position. You are being way too vague to pin down what your position is. I was never very good at dentistry..........
 
Rexedgar said:
My understanding of the history post WW2 as far as Indo-China is different than what I think I am understanding of your position. You are being way too vague to pin down what your position is. I was never very good at dentistry..........
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We didn't enter WWII out of concern for geopolitics. We came out of WWII with concern for geopolitics.
 
ecofarm said:
We didn't enter WWII out of concern for geopolitics.
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Ok, I’m gonna pass...your position/s are like trying to staple Jello to a wall.......post WW2 there were many foreign policy mistakes made. One of them resulted in 50k+ deaths in a “faraway“ land, that changed nothing, only delayed the inevitable. The US had the French model to learn from, but failed the course.
 
Rexedgar said:
Ok, I’m gonna pass...your position/s are like trying to staple Jello to a wall.......post WW2 there were many foreign policy mistakes made. One of them resulted in 50k+ deaths in a “faraway“ land, that changed nothing, only delayed the inevitable. The US had the French model to learn from, but failed the course.
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Before Vietnam, we lived in a compartmentalized world politically. Vietnam changed that. Vietnam began globalism.
 
ecofarm said:
Before Vietnam, we lived in a compartmentalized world politically. Vietnam changed that. Vietnam began globalism.
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I disagree. The US has been involved in our own hemisphere for over a century. We were involved on the European Continent in 1917. Even before that there were the “Banana Wars.” See United Fruit/Domino Sugar/Dole/Chiquita. Philippine Islands, Cuba, Dominican Republic, (82nd was there). China in 1905, Boxer Rebellion. Pardon me if I am not in chronological order.
 
Rexedgar said:
I disagree. The US has been involved in our own hemisphere for over a century. We were involved on the European Continent in 1917. Even before that there were the “Banana Wars.” See United Fruit/Domino Sugar/Dole. Philippine Islands, Cuba, Dominican Republic, (82nd was there). China in 1905, Boxer Rebellion. Pardon me if I am not in chronological order.
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A guy in second bat had a mustard stain from Grenada.

Look, you're conflating security concerns with political concerns. Yes, they generally coincide. But there's a difference between WWII and Vietnam. We entered WWII for security. We entered Vietnam for geopolitics.

Vietnam began an era in which wars were not only waged for simple, direct individual security. Wars were now waged with geopolitics as the catalyst.
 
ecofarm said:
A guy in second bat had a mustard stain from Grenada.

Look, you're conflating security concerns with political concerns. Yes, they generally coincide. But there's a difference between WWII and Vietnam. We entered WWII for security. We entered Vietnam for geopolitics.

Vietnam began an era in which wars were not only waged for simple, direct individual security. Wars were now waged with geopolitics as the catalyst.
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Where did we get to WW2. I was replying to your post re Viet Nam. We screwed the pooch there and we had the French model to guide us. Disclaimer: I served during the VN conflict. I was ready to do what was necessary and was all for ‘Merica right or wrong. In hind sight, I see we farked up. Wars long before the VN conflict were geared toward capitalism, imo. Not necessarily including WW2.....


Where was the US security endangered in the years from 1955-1975?
 
Rexedgar said:
Where did we get to WW2. I was replying to your post re Viet Nam. We screwed the pooch there and we had the French model to guide us. Disclaimer: I served during the VN conflict. I was ready to do what was necessary and was all for ‘Merica right or wrong. In hind sight, I see we farked up. Wars long before the VN conflict were geared toward capitalism, imo. Not necessarily including WW2.....


Where was the US security endangered in the years from 1955-1975?
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Whatever one's beliefs about Vietnam, the changes it realized on a global scale remain. The world was now a global political community willing to engage in war to ensure the victory of the West.
 
ecofarm said:
Whatever one's beliefs about Vietnam, the changes it realized on a global scale remain. The world was now a global political community willing to engage in war to ensure the victory of the West.
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Answer my last question, please.

Where was the US security endangered in the years from 1955-1975?
 
Rexedgar said:
Answer my last question, please.

Where was the US security endangered in the years from 1955-1975?
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Is this a history lesson or are we discussing the realization of geopolitics in the 20th century. If you have a point, make it.
 
Doc91478 said:
....if there was a draft no friggin way we’d be in the ME
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We were in the ME when there was a draft. Dreams can be nice, reality a nightmare.
 
ecofarm said:
Is this a history lesson or are we discussing the realization of geopolitics in the 20th century. If you have a point, make it.
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What was the “security threat “ to the United States posed by either North or South Viet Nam? You’re diggings the goal posts up.....
 
Rexedgar said:
What was the “security threat “ to the United States posed by either North or South Viet Nam? You’re diggings the goal posts up.....
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You're begging the question. State your claim.
 
Rexedgar said:
I failed DDS. Obtuse doesn’t become you.....:2wave:
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I'm not doing a history lesson of the ratio of security to politics for every engagement over decades. At Vietnam, politics become security.
 
ecofarm said:
I'm not doing a history lesson of the ratio of security to politics for every engagement over decades. At Vietnam, politics become security.
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Concession accepted:2wave:

OUT
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Not really.

Part of the reasons Americans fetishize the military is because it is such an uncommon thing. Compare how Americans view our military today versus how the Russians or Israelis (or any country that has conscription) view their armed forces and the difference is palpable. Countries where everyone serves doesn't increase respect for the military. It makes it far more common and less of an anomaly.
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~~~~~~
Perhaps for some. Personally I put my time in hell after enlisting for 4 and re-upping.
 
Praxas said:
Your post was good up until this hidden bull**** claim:



There is no deep state.

I'll give you Kudos for the rest of the post though.
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Actually, there IS and HAS BEEN a deep state. Some government Big Whig named McLoughlin, John just wrote about it and talked about it, praising it and expressing thanks that the Deep State is protecting the country from deranged individuals like Trump.

More, the Vietnam war was based on a lie, as the OP has pointed out, and so is the Global War Of Terror an even bigger lie.

Yes, returning to the draft might end these perpetual wars, who knows?

Smedley Butler was right about all of it.
 
ecofarm said:
Before Vietnam, we lived in a compartmentalized world politically. Vietnam changed that. Vietnam began globalism.
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I would beg to differ.


Waterborne traffic: 3000-1000 BC

By far the easiest method of transporting goods is by water, particularly in an era when towns and villages are linked by footpaths rather than roads. The first extensive trade routes are up and down the great rivers which become the backbones of early civilizations - the Nile, the Tigris and Euphrates, the Indus and the Yellow River.

As boats become sturdier, coastal trade extends human contact and promotes wealth. The eastern Mediterranean is the first region to develop extensive maritime trade, first between Egypt and Minoan Crete and then - in the ships of the intrepid Phoenicians - westwards through the chain of Mediterranean islands and along the north African coast.

Phoenicia is famous for its luxury goods. The cedar wood is not only exported as top-quality timber for architecture and shipbuilding. It is also carved by the Phoenicians, and the same skill is adapted to even more precious work in ivory. The rare and expensive dye, Tyrian purple, complements another famous local product, fine linen. The metalworkers of the region are famous, particularly in gold. And Tyre and Sidon are known for their glass.

These are only the products which the Phoenicians export. As traders and middlemen they take a cut on a much greater Cornucopia of precious goods - as the prophet Ezekiel grudgingly admits.




The caravan: from 1000 BC

In the parched regions of north Africa and Asia two different species of camel become the most important beasts of burden - the single-humped Arabian camel (in north Africa, the Middle East, India) and the double-humped Bactrian camel (central Asia, Mongolia). Both are well adapted to desert conditions. They can derive water, when none is available elsewhere, from the fat stored in their humps.

It is probable that they are first domesticated in Arabia. By about 1000 BC caravans of camels are bringing precious goods up the west coast of Arabia, linking India with Egypt, Phoenicia and Mesopotamia.

This trade route brings prosperity to Petra, a natural stronghold just north of the Gulf of Aqaba on the route from the Red Sea up to the Mediterranean coast. In the heyday of the kingdom of Israel, around 1000 BC, this important site is occupied by the Edomites - bitter enemies of the Israelite kings, David and Solomon.

In the 4th century BC the Edomites are displaced by an Arab tribe, the Nabataeans. They soon come into conflict with new neighbours in Mesopotamia, the Seleucid Greeks, who have an interest in diverting trade from the Gulf of Aqaba.



New routes to the west: from 300 BC

The presence of Greeks in Mesopotamia and the eastern Mediterranean encourages a new trade route. To ease the transport of goods to Greece and beyond, Seleucus founds in 300 BC a city at the northeast tip of the Mediterranean. He calls it Antioch, in honour of his own father, Antiochus. Its port, at the mouth of the river, is named after himself - Seleucia.


Read more: HISTORY OF TRADE
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Thoreau72 said:
Actually, there IS and HAS BEEN a deep state. Some government Big Whig named McLoughlin, John just wrote about it and talked about it, praising it and expressing thanks that the Deep State is protecting the country from deranged individuals like Trump.

More, the Vietnam war was based on a lie, as the OP has pointed out, and so is the Global War Of Terror an even bigger lie.

Yes, returning to the draft might end these perpetual wars, who knows?

Smedley Butler was right about all of it.
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Thoreau72:

Some Big Whig? That's former CIA Deputy Director and later acting Director John McLaughlin!

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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