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Thread: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

  1. #61
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    Ground support (generators) for a week during the invasion.

    I flew back to Atlantic Fleet Weapons Training Facility in Roosevelt Roads afterwards.
    I was helping equip and train the Caribbean Peacekeeping Force. We had a Navy guy with our team. He did admin stuff in the office with the Col., CW3, and SGM. Our team stayed in the Calabash Hotel on Lance aux Epines beach. Had been a 5 star hotel (and would be again) but was a little run down at the time. Still very nice though. Old fashion laid back beach living. Open air bar and dining. Jim Brown stayed there a couple nights and we got to meet him. We got the Embassy rate which was about 140 a day. That would equate to around 350 in 2019 dollars. All on the taxpayer dime though. No complaints from me.

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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc91478 View Post
    I firmly believe that our military would be given more respect and honor if the draft was reinstated. Today, Americans don’t give a damn because the military is currently a tool of the MIC and Deep State. When families have skin in the game they'll pay attention to where/why their children are. Vietnam taught the Elitist Progressive Democrats there is blowback when war is fought and lost for profit and not for Country if there was a draft no friggin way we’d be in the ME
    Not really.

    Part of the reasons Americans fetishize the military is because it is such an uncommon thing. Compare how Americans view our military today versus how the Russians or Israelis (or any country that has conscription) view their armed forces and the difference is palpable. Countries where everyone serves doesn't increase respect for the military. It makes it far more common and less of an anomaly.
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The Swiftboat veterans cast the first stone. I assume that's where Trump got the gall to belittle a Goldstar family and ridicule McCain for having been a POW. Conservatives must like ridiculing vets because they keep voting for people that do it.
    Trump's buffoonery aside......

    I served with Engineman and Boatswain mate's Swift Boat veterans in the 1970's who were there in Vietnam in the very same squadron as Kerry. There are still 2 Swift Boat veterans (coxswain & engineman) that I have golfed with for 35 years.

    They all say the same thing about Kerry's arrogance and incompetence.

    3 Purple Heart's and never missed a day of duty?

    Damn, he's a tough SOB!
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The willingness of the Western world to engage on the other side of the globe was a win.
    Ecofarm:

    Not for the other side of the globe, it wasn't. It was a net loss. And what a lovely euphemism you use by calling wars of imperialism and adventure by the benign phrase, "to engage". These were not engagements, they were shotgun and howitzer weddings where the weapons were used on the brutalised brides repeatedly until they were broken and dragged to the alter of imperial capitalism and colonialism. This engagement was done in order to turn four-fifths of the world into the chattel of the other fifth. And it's still happening today.

    Veterans should be celebrated for their courage and their service to their states but that does not mean that their political and military leaders who sent them "to engage" had noble or altruistic intents in sending them to war. Veterans should take up the mantle of serving as the guardians of peace and the conscience of the state when they put down their weapons, put aside their uniforms and make a civilian's life while they struggle with their memories of the atrocity of war. Veterans should be the first line of defence against ideologically-driven, greedy or myopic politicians and vainglorious militarists who would lightly plunge the state into wars of choice and unleash the horrors of war on their fellow citizens and those of other states. Those are some of the domestic enemies which veterans should lead their fellow citizens to confront and defeat politically before shots are fired abroad. Starting wars of choice should be very, very hard for those in power to do and so a citizen army, perhaps with a professional cadre for training, is a wiser strategy for peace than an all professional, all volunteer army, or worse still a mercenary army as per Erik Prince's desires, which can frequently wage war without undue political cost. War should never be easy to start.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    Last edited by Evilroddy; 11-16-19 at 12:02 PM.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc91478 View Post
    Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day



    Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day | Zero Hedge
    11/11/2019 ~ By Kelli Ballard via LibertyNation.com,
    Throughout history, there have been conflicts and wars, and the attitude about the engagements – and its warriors – change depending on the public opinion at the time. Consider the medieval era where being a knight was romanticized. They were considered chivalrous with a code that expected them to be pure in both thought and deed. When the brave knights returned after a battle, they were honored and celebrated. Great feasts were given in their name and the ladies swooned and threw lace, ribbons, and other personal effects to show their support – and hopefully catch a legendary hero husband in the process.
    But now, let’s flash forward to the Vietnam War and the veterans who suffered not only from wartime injuries (both physical and mental), but also from hostility and disrespect from the very citizens they put their lives on the line to protect. Whether being drafted into service or signing up on their own, young men, boys, and women, did their duty and served their nation. They went into unfamiliar and hostile territory to fight against the enemy; some being injured or even losing their lives. They witnessed atrocities, saw their platoon brethren die, and dreamed of the day when they could return home, to their loved ones. However, when that day came, instead of open, welcoming arms, many veterans were met with anger, people spitting on them, calling them “baby killers.” Far from being worshipped as heroes, as their former soldiers were, Vietnam veterans were harassed and made to feel ashamed for their patriotic service. It took another 20 years after the Vietnam War for Americans to return to respecting their warriors. The first step in the healing process began in 1982 with the dedication of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. After the Gulf War (1990-91), people began waving flags and celebrating soldiers. Langenus, who had suffered as a Vietnam veteran, and also a veteran of Desert Storm, couldn’t believe the change around.


    Comment:
    Vietnam was a tragedy based on a lie, and had ZERO to do with protecting America from any sort of threat, because duh, despite horror FAKE NEWS of "Domino Theory" Communism is inherently economically incapable of sustaining itself long term. Those boys were used by the government plain and simple. Those boys were used by Lyndon B. Johnson (D-Tx) and the government plain and simple.
    I firmly believe that our military would be given more respect and honor if the draft was reinstated. Today, Americans don’t give a damn because the military is currently a tool of the MIC and Deep State. When families have skin in the game they'll pay attention to where/why their children are. Vietnam taught the Elitist Progressive Democrats there is blowback when war is fought and lost for profit and not for Country if there was a draft no friggin way we’d be in the ME
    One of the things I've experienced during my 18 years of service and counting is that both left and right, except for the extremes on either end, actually do respect veterans and treat us quite well. Honestly, I find it slightly embarrassing sometimes when I have to do something while still in uniform and people thank me for my service as I don't feel like I've sacrificed nearly as much as many. It is still heartening to see gratitude though.

    I'm glad that people seem to heave learned to separate Soldiers being used by the government for questionable wars and their sacrifices and service. We still a strong military for our security, even if it gets misused. It's the citizens' duty to vote in people who do not use it inappropriately or to put pressure on to stop them if they do.
    “There are no self-proclaimed villains, only regiments of self-proclaimed saints. Victorious historians rule where good or evil lies.” ― Glen Cook, Chronicles of the Black Company

  6. #66
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    Trump's buffoonery aside......

    I served with Engineman and Boatswain mate's Swift Boat veterans in the 1970's who were there in Vietnam in the very same squadron as Kerry. There are still 2 Swift Boat veterans (coxswain & engineman) that I have golfed with for 35 years.

    They all say the same thing about Kerry's arrogance and incompetence.

    3 Purple Heart's and never missed a day of duty?

    Damn, he's a tough SOB!
    "The term swiftboating (also swift-boating or swift boating) is a pejorative American neologism used to describe an unfair or untrue political attack."


    You must be so proud to know such liars that give all swift boat veterans a bad name.
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  7. #67
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilroddy View Post
    Ecofarm:

    Not for the other side of the globe, it wasn't. It was a net loss. And what a lovely euphemism you use by calling wars of imperialism and adventure by the benign phrase, "to engage". These were not engagements, they were shotgun and howitzer weddings where the weapons were used on the brutalised brides repeatedly until they were broken and dragged to the alter of imperial capitalism and colonialism. This engagement was done in order to turn four-fifths of the world into the chattel of the other fifth. And it's still happening today.

    Veterans should be celebrated for their courage and their service to their states but that does not mean that their political and military leaders who sent them "to engage" had noble or altruistic intents in sending them to war. Veterans should take up the mantle of serving as the guardians of peace and the conscience of the state when they put down their weapons, put aside their uniforms and make a civilian's life while they struggle with their memories of the atrocity of war. Veterans should be the first line of defence against ideologically-driven, greedy or myopic politicians and vainglorious militarists who would lightly plunge the state into wars of choice and unleash the horrors of war on their fellow citizens and those of other states. Those are some of the domestic enemies which veterans should lead their fellow citizens to confront and defeat politically before shots are fired abroad. Starting wars of choice should be very, very hard for those in power to do and so a citizen army, perhaps with a professional cadre for training, is a wiser strategy for peace than an all professional, all volunteer army, or worse still a mercenary army as per Erik Prince's desires, which can frequently wage war without undue political cost. War should never be easy to start.

    Cheers.
    Evilroddy.
    Some people believe the Vietnam War was vital to world development as it established the West's willingness to engage the other side of the globe.

    No amount of BS or misconception on your part will change that.

  8. #68
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    "The term swiftboating (also swift-boating or swift boating) is a pejorative American neologism used to describe an unfair or untrue political attack."


    You must be so proud to know such liars that give all swift boat veterans a bad name.
    You are totally ignorant on what Kerry did to earn that reputation.

    And, you have no idea about the character of the of these SB veterans, so you just take the typical air head route and go with your party's parroting.

    So typical of you to spout off your ignorance and just follow your party line BS.
    “It’s easier to run for office than to run the office.”
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  9. #69
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    You are totally ignorant on what Kerry did to earn that reputation.

    And, you have no idea about the character of the of these SB veterans, so you just take the typical air head route and go with your party's parroting.

    So typical of you to spout off your ignorance and just follow your party line BS.
    I'm not impressed with your opinions.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I'm not impressed with your opinions.
    Not opinions............your words were.

    You are the same ****ing air head that you have always been.
    “It’s easier to run for office than to run the office.”
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