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Thread: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    Why do you think military men and women are returning from Afghanistan and Iraq with PTSD? It's because our men and women have been given the job of defending something or other and possibly giving up their lives or at best coming home missing an arm or a leg, for a fake war? Our last real war was WW2, more than 75 years ago. I lost a lot of friends from high school, they were drafted to serve in Vietnam and never came back. They didn't want to go fight a war in a weird place nobody could even find on a map. Vietnam was a horrible 'non-war' that should have never happened. And yes, those that came back home weren't welcomed as heroes.

    Soldiers need a reason to fight wars. Patriotism, preservation of democracy, defeating dictators, stopping humanitarian abuse, preventing genocide. Those are reasons to fight and die for. Oil isn't a reason to die for. Protecting heroin poppy fields isn't a reason to die for. Overthrowing a political adversary to install a puppet US government isn't a reason to die for.

    I heard a statistic today that was somewhat sobering. Arlington National Cemetery is running out of room to put the graves of military that died in battle. There's enough space for 95,000 more dead to be buried at Arlington, but there's 2 million active military right now. I suppose the U.S. government can always build mausoleums and inter dead soldiers there. But how many more will be interred in Arlington that should be home enjoying life and not fighting unfounded battles for some foreign country in the Middle East or Central America?
    ~~~~~~
    Gee, I wouldn't know I've never fought in the M.E. but I could tell you a little about Nam but I won't. But I guess that's a different time and place.

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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc91478 View Post
    ~~~~~~
    So you think PTSD is something new? Before the name was created by the P.C. 20th century psychiatrists it was found in Civil War, WWI, WWII, and Korean veterans. It was called Shell Shock, Combat Exhaustion, palpitation, cardiac muscular exhaustion, Combat fatigue, battle fatigue, combat stress reaction etc..... Whatever name you try to use it's been around since the first tribal wars from prehistoric times. It will always be present as long as man makes and creates wars.
    I know that very well, I had 3 uncles that served in WW2. Call it what you want to call it, the whole point is that some returned from WW2 after surviving and seeing atrocities that no man in history had ever seen with emotional scars they lived with all the rest of their lives. Nobody went out shooting people at random because of their mental stress and PTSD or 'shell shock'. Men returning with PTSD from Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan saw similar horrific things, but there was no reason for them being there at all. WW2 veterans sacrificed many things, but came home to a heroes welcome and ticker-tape parades. Men returning from Vietnam returned to boos and got spit on.










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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Skin in the game should be voluntary...not forced. And it's not the parents choice or sacrifice to make...it's their adult son's and daughters.

    The disconnect to the military is because no one knows what they're fighting for. If there was the clear and direct threat the whole country would rally to fight against it. But as it stands now, Americans don't even know what side they're on...the US or Russia.
    So if it is voluntary why should those that don't participate have the gall to belittle those that have sacrificed? "Let those who are without sin cast the first stone."....

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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc91478 View Post
    Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day



    Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day | Zero Hedge
    11/11/2019 ~ By Kelli Ballard via LibertyNation.com,
    Throughout history, there have been conflicts and wars, and the attitude about the engagements – and its warriors – change depending on the public opinion at the time. Consider the medieval era where being a knight was romanticized. They were considered chivalrous with a code that expected them to be pure in both thought and deed. When the brave knights returned after a battle, they were honored and celebrated. Great feasts were given in their name and the ladies swooned and threw lace, ribbons, and other personal effects to show their support – and hopefully catch a legendary hero husband in the process.
    But now, let’s flash forward to the Vietnam War and the veterans who suffered not only from wartime injuries (both physical and mental), but also from hostility and disrespect from the very citizens they put their lives on the line to protect. Whether being drafted into service or signing up on their own, young men, boys, and women, did their duty and served their nation. They went into unfamiliar and hostile territory to fight against the enemy; some being injured or even losing their lives. They witnessed atrocities, saw their platoon brethren die, and dreamed of the day when they could return home, to their loved ones. However, when that day came, instead of open, welcoming arms, many veterans were met with anger, people spitting on them, calling them “baby killers.” Far from being worshipped as heroes, as their former soldiers were, Vietnam veterans were harassed and made to feel ashamed for their patriotic service. It took another 20 years after the Vietnam War for Americans to return to respecting their warriors. The first step in the healing process began in 1982 with the dedication of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. After the Gulf War (1990-91), people began waving flags and celebrating soldiers. Langenus, who had suffered as a Vietnam veteran, and also a veteran of Desert Storm, couldn’t believe the change around.


    Comment:
    Vietnam was a tragedy based on a lie, and had ZERO to do with protecting America from any sort of threat, because duh, despite horror FAKE NEWS of "Domino Theory" Communism is inherently economically incapable of sustaining itself long term. Those boys were used by the government plain and simple. Those boys were used by Lyndon B. Johnson (D-Tx) and the government plain and simple.
    I firmly believe that our military would be given more respect and honor if the draft was reinstated. Today, Americans don’t give a damn because the military is currently a tool of the MIC and Deep State. When families have skin in the game they'll pay attention to where/why their children are. Vietnam taught the Elitist Progressive Democrats there is blowback when war is fought and lost for profit and not for Country if there was a draft no friggin way we’d be in the ME
    For the start the problem is the knights being romanticized, yes they were however in most medieval combat they were a tiny fraction of military combat, they were essentially officers, the bulk of combat then was done by conscripted peasants often chosen by the lords/nobles of the region to heed to the rulers calling. Many had to supply their own weapons, and the only armor most recieved were wooden shields as they were cheap to make plus the banner allowed them to identify themselves from the enemy. So it was unarmored peasants using farm tools as weapons that often made up the bulk of armies then, and as history shows they recieved no love or recognition instead knights did.

    The peasants who did most the fighting were usually shipped back to the farms they ran with nothing to show, though some after enough conscriptions became mercenaries as by that point all they knew was war and found it easier to run away from the feudal society and become a paid fighter.
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    I know that very well, I had 3 uncles that served in WW2. Call it what you want to call it, the whole point is that some returned from WW2 after surviving and seeing atrocities that no man in history had ever seen with emotional scars they lived with all the rest of their lives. Nobody went out shooting people at random because of their mental stress and PTSD or 'shell shock'. Men returning with PTSD from Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan saw similar horrific things, but there was no reason for them being there at all. WW2 veterans sacrificed many things, but came home to a heroes welcome and ticker-tape parades. Men returning from Vietnam returned to boos and got spit on.

    ~~~~~~
    On the contrary, all wars are bloody and those that have participated and survived have emotional scars that live with them the rest of their lives. Fortunately you have not experienced any such trauma. But a guy named McVeigh blew up a building in Oklahoma.

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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc91478 View Post
    ~~~~~~
    On the contrary, all wars are bloody and those that have participated and survived have emotional scars that live with them the rest of their lives. Fortunately you have not experienced any such trauma. But a guy named McVeigh blew up a building in Oklahoma.
    And a bunch of men flew jets into two pretty big buildings in New York too.










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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc91478 View Post
    Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day



    Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day | Zero Hedge
    11/11/2019 ~ By Kelli Ballard via LibertyNation.com,
    Throughout history, there have been conflicts and wars, and the attitude about the engagements – and its warriors – change depending on the public opinion at the time. Consider the medieval era where being a knight was romanticized. They were considered chivalrous with a code that expected them to be pure in both thought and deed. When the brave knights returned after a battle, they were honored and celebrated. Great feasts were given in their name and the ladies swooned and threw lace, ribbons, and other personal effects to show their support – and hopefully catch a legendary hero husband in the process.
    But now, let’s flash forward to the Vietnam War and the veterans who suffered not only from wartime injuries (both physical and mental), but also from hostility and disrespect from the very citizens they put their lives on the line to protect. Whether being drafted into service or signing up on their own, young men, boys, and women, did their duty and served their nation. They went into unfamiliar and hostile territory to fight against the enemy; some being injured or even losing their lives. They witnessed atrocities, saw their platoon brethren die, and dreamed of the day when they could return home, to their loved ones. However, when that day came, instead of open, welcoming arms, many veterans were met with anger, people spitting on them, calling them “baby killers.” Far from being worshipped as heroes, as their former soldiers were, Vietnam veterans were harassed and made to feel ashamed for their patriotic service. It took another 20 years after the Vietnam War for Americans to return to respecting their warriors. The first step in the healing process began in 1982 with the dedication of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. After the Gulf War (1990-91), people began waving flags and celebrating soldiers. Langenus, who had suffered as a Vietnam veteran, and also a veteran of Desert Storm, couldn’t believe the change around.


    Comment:
    Vietnam was a tragedy based on a lie, and had ZERO to do with protecting America from any sort of threat, because duh, despite horror FAKE NEWS of "Domino Theory" Communism is inherently economically incapable of sustaining itself long term. Those boys were used by the government plain and simple. Those boys were used by Lyndon B. Johnson (D-Tx) and the government plain and simple.
    I firmly believe that our military would be given more respect and honor if the draft was reinstated. Today, Americans don’t give a damn because the military is currently a tool of the MIC and Deep State. When families have skin in the game they'll pay attention to where/why their children are. Vietnam taught the Elitist Progressive Democrats there is blowback when war is fought and lost for profit and not for Country if there was a draft no friggin way we’d be in the ME
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc91478 View Post
    So if it is voluntary why should those that don't participate have the gall to belittle those that have sacrificed? "Let those who are without sin cast the first stone."....
    The Swiftboat veterans cast the first stone. I assume that's where Trump got the gall to belittle a Goldstar family and ridicule McCain for having been a POW. Conservatives must like ridiculing vets because they keep voting for people that do it.
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc91478 View Post
    Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day



    Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day | Zero Hedge
    11/11/2019 ~ By Kelli Ballard via LibertyNation.com,
    Throughout history, there have been conflicts and wars, and the attitude about the engagements – and its warriors – change depending on the public opinion at the time. Consider the medieval era where being a knight was romanticized. They were considered chivalrous with a code that expected them to be pure in both thought and deed. When the brave knights returned after a battle, they were honored and celebrated. Great feasts were given in their name and the ladies swooned and threw lace, ribbons, and other personal effects to show their support – and hopefully catch a legendary hero husband in the process.
    But now, let’s flash forward to the Vietnam War and the veterans who suffered not only from wartime injuries (both physical and mental), but also from hostility and disrespect from the very citizens they put their lives on the line to protect. Whether being drafted into service or signing up on their own, young men, boys, and women, did their duty and served their nation. They went into unfamiliar and hostile territory to fight against the enemy; some being injured or even losing their lives. They witnessed atrocities, saw their platoon brethren die, and dreamed of the day when they could return home, to their loved ones. However, when that day came, instead of open, welcoming arms, many veterans were met with anger, people spitting on them, calling them “baby killers.” Far from being worshipped as heroes, as their former soldiers were, Vietnam veterans were harassed and made to feel ashamed for their patriotic service. It took another 20 years after the Vietnam War for Americans to return to respecting their warriors. The first step in the healing process began in 1982 with the dedication of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. After the Gulf War (1990-91), people began waving flags and celebrating soldiers. Langenus, who had suffered as a Vietnam veteran, and also a veteran of Desert Storm, couldn’t believe the change around.


    Comment:
    Vietnam was a tragedy based on a lie, and had ZERO to do with protecting America from any sort of threat, because duh, despite horror FAKE NEWS of "Domino Theory" Communism is inherently economically incapable of sustaining itself long term. Those boys were used by the government plain and simple. Those boys were used by Lyndon B. Johnson (D-Tx) and the government plain and simple.
    I firmly believe that our military would be given more respect and honor if the draft was reinstated. Today, Americans don’t give a damn because the military is currently a tool of the MIC and Deep State. When families have skin in the game they'll pay attention to where/why their children are. Vietnam taught the Elitist Progressive Democrats there is blowback when war is fought and lost for profit and not for Country if there was a draft no friggin way we’d be in the ME
    I'll just say this, I look at the Vietnam war as a battle we lost in the cold war, which we won. Most folks take Vietnam out of the context of the era it was fought in and place it in the 21st century context.
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    Re: Changing Attitudes On Veterans Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Those two bolded statements seem to contradict each other. The draft didn't bring honor to the military during the Vietnam War...but it sure made it easier to prolong it. So what makes you think it would be different if it was re-instated....especially now when there is so much mistrust of the government?

    ~~~~~~
    That's considered dichotomy of thought. Think about it.....

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