The F-35A Is Set to Finally Get Chaff Countermeasures to Confuse Enemy Radars

The F-35A Is Set to Finally Get Chaff Countermeasures to Confuse Enemy Radars (excerpt)

The U.S. Air Force is hoping to integrate a new, advanced chaff countermeasure onto its F-35A Joint Strike Fighters next year, according to a report. The cartridges, which release radar reflective material to blind and confuse enemy aircraft and air defenses, are a staple across many of the service's other combat aircraft, but have been curiously absent from the stealthy F-35's otherwise extensive defensive suite.

Aviation Week's Defense Editor Steve Trimble was first to spot the detail on Sept. 9, 2019. The Air Force included the information about the new chaff cartridge, known presently as the ARM-210, in a draft environmental impact statement, dated August 2019, regarding the basing of F-35s at various Air National Guard facilities. The report includes a host of information on how the aircraft might impact their surrounding environments, including the potential release of countermeasures, such as infrared decoy flares and chaff.

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The commentary at the end (not the article writer is interesting but I believe wrong in the case of the f22. Some quick research indicates the F22 does have chaff countermeasures. I can not confirm that

Contrary to what is stated above, there is nothing ‘curious’ about the fact that the F-35 was designed without chaff or IR flare launchers.

Since its stealthy design was claimed to make the F-35 invisible to radar, there was clearly no need for active countermeasures like chaff to protect it from radar. This same reasoning explains why no other US Air Force ‘stealth’ aircraft, from the F-117 to the F-22 and B-2, are not fitted with any.

By the same logic, the fact that chaff is now planned to be retrofitted to the F-35A merely confirms that, a quarter-century since it was designed, ‘stealth’ is no longer a sufficient guarantee of the F-35A’s survival in combat – if it ever was.

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Lord Tammerlain said:

The F-35A Is Set to Finally Get Chaff Countermeasures to Confuse Enemy Radars (excerpt)




The commentary at the end (not the article writer is interesting but I believe wrong in the case of the f22. Some quick research indicates the F22 does have chaff countermeasures. I can not confirm that

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Your citation:

By the same logic, the fact that chaff is now planned to be retrofitted to the F-35A merely confirms that, a quarter-century since it was designed, ‘stealth’ is no longer a sufficient guarantee of the F-35A’s survival in combat – if it ever was.

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That's an assumption and jumping to a conclusion. The F35 might be outfitted because it can sneak in and deliver counter measures allowing non stealth planes to operate. That's just one possible alternate explanation.

Buy Reynolds Wrap stock!

ecofarm said:

Your citation:



That's an assumption and jumping to a conclusion. The F35 might be outfitted because it can sneak in and deliver counter measures allowing non stealth planes to operate. That's just one possible alternate explanation.

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I don't think chaff works quite that way. If I am not mistaken it is normally used after a anti aircraft missile has been launched and of course detected by the aircraft. The chaff is used to hopefully counter the missile's radar tracking into going after the chaff rather than the plane. It would not be used for the flight duration in contested airspace. The enemy radar will pick up the non stealth plane from quite a distance away giving away the location of the stealth planes

Lord Tammerlain said:

I don't think chaff works quite that way. If I am not mistaken it is normally used after a anti aircraft missile has been launched and of course detected by the aircraft. The chaff is used to hopefully counter the missile's radar tracking into going after the chaff rather than the plane. It would not be used for the flight duration in contested airspace. The enemy radar will pick up the non stealth plane from quite a distance away giving away the location of the stealth planes

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The article says it blinds planes and defenses. Dump a bunch of it, then in with non-stealth.

ecofarm said:

The article says it blinds planes and defenses. Dump a bunch of it, then in with non-stealth.

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Over a very limited area, perhaps 300 cubic meters per chaff release. (guess on chaff volume but I sure it is not much more)

Lord Tammerlain said:

Over a very limited area, perhaps 300 cubic meters per chaff release. (guess on chaff volume but I sure it is not much more)

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I'm no expert. Hell, I don't know anything about this stuff. But it looked to me like jumping to a conclusion. No alternative explanations were explored or explained.

Lord Tammerlain said:

The F-35A Is Set to Finally Get Chaff Countermeasures to Confuse Enemy Radars (excerpt)




The commentary at the end (not the article writer is interesting but I believe wrong in the case of the f22. Some quick research indicates the F22 does have chaff countermeasures. I can not confirm that

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Stealth is a truly weird thing. I would suspect, though this is more guess than anything else, that they found a way to mold the right materials into the right shape to not sacrifice stealth by having the chaff launchers(which are these big square things with a bunch of bored holes). It takes very little to significantly reduce stealthiness, so I suspect that was the issue. Being stealthy is better than having chaff launchers, but having stealth and chaff launchers is even better.

ecofarm said:

The article says it blinds planes and defenses. Dump a bunch of it, then in with non-stealth.

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Doesn't work like that. Pilots where taught when I was in that when they got the alert in the headset, punch off a ****load of chaff. It is used when an aircraft is detected by radar, and by extension being tracked by a missile. If the aircraft is not locked or painted, chaff doesn't do any good.

ecofarm said:

I'm no expert. Hell, I don't know anything about this stuff. But it looked to me like jumping to a conclusion. No alternative explanations were explored or explained.

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I seem to recall reading somewhere stealth was only going to be stealth for about 30-35 years from first deployment because improvements in radar systems would catch up with the technology. There is some speculation that the russian S-400 system with multiple radars can detect some stealth aircraft.

Redress said:

Doesn't work like that. Pilots where taught when I was in that when they got the alert in the headset, punch off a ****load of chaff. It is used when an aircraft is detected by radar, and by extension being tracked by a missile. If the aircraft is not locked or painted, chaff doesn't do any good.

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As long as the chaff blinds the defenses, what does it matter what plane it came from?

ecofarm said:

As long as the chaff blinds the defenses, what does it matter what plane it came from?

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If the chaff is not between the target aircraft and the missile(or potentially the aircraft firing the missile and painting the target), it won’t do anything. It is a relatively small area it is effective in, and does not stay effective long.

Part of the problem is that people who don't know what they are talking about seem to think stealth makes pushed invisible. It doesn't. What it does is make them harder to detect meaning that when dealing with an air defense site the aircraft is either already turning and running away or already fired it's missiles before they are detected. And while dealing with other fighters it allows more time for the stealth aircraft to get in a favorable position before getting detected.

Redress said:

Stealth is a truly weird thing. I would suspect, though this is more guess than anything else, that they found a way to mold the right materials into the right shape to not sacrifice stealth by having the chaff launchers(which are these big square things with a bunch of bored holes). It takes very little to significantly reduce stealthiness, so I suspect that was the issue. Being stealthy is better than having chaff launchers, but having stealth and chaff launchers is even better.

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It very much is. Though I think for modern missiles the chaff needs to be calibrated such when its released its a reasonable facsimile of an F-35 to the radar receiver on board. I wonder if they are doing flares and decoys too?

PirateMk1 said:

It very much is. Though I think for modern missiles the chaff needs to be calibrated such when its released its a reasonable facsimile of an F-35 to the radar receiver on board. I wonder if they are doing flares and decoys too?

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The missile follows a radar return into the target. The purpose of chaff is to disrupt that radar return, so the missile loses tracking. It does not make a facsimile of an aircraft, it just blocks the radar.

Edit to be more complete and explain better: The chaff "bucket" looks like this:



Each of those round things contains either chaff, a flare or a jammer. Jammers work exactly like they sound, sending out bursts of microwaves on the frequency used by radar(I think they may sense on a range of frequencies and tune their output frequency based on that, but way above my paygrade there, just a guess), to interfere with the radar signal. If it works, the missile will lose lock. Flares work like I think you envision chaff working, sending out a very hot IR radiation, which hopefully the heat seeking missile will end up homing in on. Chaff works by diffusing the radar signal, kinda bending the signal so the missile cannot follow it into the target.