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Thread: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

  1. #81
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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Im not sure what the goal of this was, but Im not seeing the big deal either. A week ago we got these satellite surveillance photos of an NK submarine, what is the difference between that photo and the one Trump tweeted? Why is one making people lose their minds and the other not?
    Photos show North Korea closer to building submarine that can launch missiles - ABC News
    A couple of things come to mind.

    1. Photos and other such collection that is released in a deliberate process can be obfuscated enough to disguise capability. This appears instead to be something POTUS just decided to tweet out, just because.

    2. Intelligence is classified according to collection methodology, and the assessed harm to the nation that would come with it's release. Sometimes, it's worth harming national security in this manner in order to achieve an end - getting Western concurrence on the Cuban missile crises, for example. Harming national security for the lols, or because you are lazy, or because you dislike American policy is a different thing altogether. That's why Hillary's emails were a big deal, and it's why Edward Snowden is an f'ing traitor.

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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The goal of this was to.... Troll Iran?
    Seems like it yes. And in the process of Trump being Trump.....


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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    A couple of things come to mind.

    1. Photos and other such collection that is released in a deliberate process can be obfuscated enough to disguise capability. This appears instead to be something POTUS just decided to tweet out, just because.

    2. Intelligence is classified according to collection methodology, and the assessed harm to the nation that would come with it's release. Sometimes, it's worth harming national security in this manner in order to achieve an end - getting Western concurrence on the Cuban missile crises, for example. Harming national security for the lols, or because you are lazy, or because you dislike American policy is a different thing altogether. That's why Hillary's emails were a big deal, and it's why Edward Snowden is an f'ing traitor.
    Makes sense, but what is the harm? Or potential harm?
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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Makes sense, but what is the harm? Or potential harm?
    Exposing US collections means, methods, and capabilities harms our ability to determine the intentions, capabilities, and activities of our opponents.

    Making up an example: let's say we developed the ability to geolocate (say) any satellite phone in the world. And then let's say, a politician went on television and bragged that we were close to finding a terrorist leader, because we were tracking his sat phone.

    Well, not only is that particular leader going to ditch his sat phone, so is everyone else. Suddenly, we are losing track of terrorists, Russian spies, and narco leadership around the globe, meaning our ability to stop them is hindered, and their ability to do us harm is increased.

    Sometimes, loss of a capability just means the loss of taxpayer money and time. Other times, it translates into lost lives.

    That doesn't mean it's not worth it to expose them on occasion - we go to war, after all, knowing we are asking at least some 19 year olds to die for us, because we judge the goal to be worth their lives. But it does mean that the decision to do so should be measured, deliberate, and informed; not because someone found it entertaining to do so.

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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Until that private server also has humint and imint very much like the basis for this thread on it as well. Hillary sent information like this over unclassified networks and kept it in an unclassified private server.

    Good for Goose, Good for Gander.
    Yeah except nothing on her server was anywhere near as damaging as this, and nothing was released or hacked...

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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by GDViking View Post
    Yeah except nothing on her server was anywhere near as damaging as this, and nothing was released or hacked...
    unfortunately, you are incorrect. In fact, IMINT was mong the classified information that Hillary decided to send over unclassified lines as well (along with other material), and, her phone and server likely (one of the difficulties with cyber is that it is exceedingly difficult to Prove things) was indeed penetrated by foreign governments.

    Hillary Clinton’s Email Was Probably Hacked, Experts Say - The New York Times

    Hillary Clinton's Phone Intercepted by German intelligence Agency

    Chinese company hacked Hillary Clinton's email server: Report


    Etc so on and so forth. FBI said they couldn't find proof (personally I would have asked NSA) (and I wonder what was in the items they destroyed rather than turn over) but SECSTATE is a major intelligence Target of almost any foreign government, which is why it's particularly important their devices not have classified in them.

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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yup.

    But those examples were declassifications for specific purpose, to achieve specific national goals. The goal of this was to.... Troll Iran?
    By announcing we know about their failures, and the extent of them sends a message. As I said earlier, psy-ops.

    "You are not as slick as you think you are! We know what you tried, we know it failed, and we are telling the world about it!"

    So yes, "Trolling Iran" is very much in the scope of psychological warfare.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    By announcing we know about their failures, and the extent of them sends a message. As I said earlier, psy-ops.

    "You are not as slick as you think you are! We know what you tried, we know it failed, and we are telling the world about it!"

    So yes, "Trolling Iran" is very much in the scope of psychological warfare.
    ......no. I'm going to go ahead and say the odds of this being deliberate IO campaign are roughly ~1-5%; right up there with "maybe it was a picture taken by an off-the-shelf drone" and "reports that the Russians have killed innocent civilians in Syria are all just CIA propaganda".

    This is not how you message Iranian incompetence, if you wanted to have an actual campaign doing so.

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    Re: Trump Tweets Sensitive Surveillance Image Of Iran

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Im not sure what the goal of this was, but Im not seeing the big deal either. A week ago we got these satellite surveillance photos of an NK submarine, what is the difference between that photo and the one Trump tweeted? Why is one making people lose their minds and the other not?
    Photos show North Korea closer to building submarine that can launch missiles - ABC News
    It is no different at all. In fact, 90% of what I am reading here is really all just political, and has nothing to do with the images at all.

    In fact, here is the same image from Google Maps.

    Google Maps

    Now this has to be a rather old bird, the resolution is not very good. But here is something that shows how good such images can be. Here is a similar image, taken over 2 US Naval ships at the exact same resolution.

    Google Maps

    This one is so good that you can zoom it in many times more, even to the point that you can see individual patches on the deck of the ship.

    And this satellite can give resolutions that seem to be even higher than that of the image over Iran that everybody is loosing their minds over.

    I am still mostly laughing at this thread. All it really is is a bunch of people trying to drum up hate, and really nothing else. They are not even looking at a lot of other examples, including images that are available to the public that are just as good.

    But high quality images of military facilities are not hard to find, if you just know where to look.

    Google Maps
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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