• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
94,329
Reaction score
82,719
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
A scathing new Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

The report specifically said President Donald Trump's decision to rapidly draw down troops in Syria and pull diplomatic staff from Iraq increased instability and allowed the militants to regroup.

56e2cc5a35702a22d5458ae9.jpg


8/8/19
A report from the Pentagon inspector general found that President Donald Trump's decision to rapidly pull troops out of Syria and divert attention from diplomacy in Iraq has inadvertently aided the Islamic State's regrouping in Syria and Iraq. The Department of Defense's quarterly report to Congress on the effectiveness of the US Operation Inherent Resolve mission said that "ISIS continued its transition from a territory-holding force to an insurgency in Syria, and it intensified its insurgency in Iraq" — even though Trump said ISIS was defeated and the caliphate quashed, The Wall Street Journal reported. Many officials and experts have repeatedly warned that a rapid US withdrawal from Syria would enable ISIS to regroup into an insurgency after their battlefield defeats by the US-led coalition. The IG's report also explicitly said the troop drawdown in Syria, which Trump announced at the end of last year, contributed to instability in the region. The drawdown, which prompted the resignation of Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, left the US's Syrian partners in the lurch, without the training or support they needed to confront a resurgent ISIS. In Iraq, the Iraqi security forces lack the necessary infrastructure to fight off ISIS for sustained periods.

ISIS is estimated to have 14,000 to 18,000 combatants, according to the report, who are carrying out assassinations, suicides, crop burnings, and ambushes in Iraq and Syria — different from the large-scale attempts to seize territory since 2014 but a violent threat to civilians in both countries nonetheless. Perhaps more importantly, ISIS is again generating revenue by extorting civilians in both countries, kidnapping for ransom, and skimming money from rebuilding contracts. This decentralized method of income generation — unlike the detailed tax and revenue system ISIS employed during its caliphate — makes the income more difficult to track. The Trump administration's decision to focus its attention on Iran reduced its capacity to effectively counter ISIS in Iraq and Syria, according to Brett McGurk, the former special presidential envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIS who served under Presidents George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump. Trump campaigned in part on a promise to withdraw the US from conflicts in the Middle East, as part of his "America First" policy. But his shortsighted decision-making based on that premise doesn't just destabilize Iraq and Syria, it also has the potential to do the same in Afghanistan, where the US is negotiating with the Taliban to withdraw from the country.
Click to expand...

The warning signs were clear. ISIS ideology remained strong even after the caliphate was decimated militarily.

Related: Operation Inherent Resolve, Report to the United States Congress, April 1, 2019-June 30, 2019 (pdf)
 
Yep, no matter how many times you take hill, sand patch or village #1346 by military force and then leave it you do not control it. I thought that we learned that lesson well from our experience in Vietnam.
 
But there was another Mission Accomplished. How could this be?
 
Rogue Valley said:
A scathing new Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

The report specifically said President Donald Trump's decision to rapidly draw down troops in Syria and pull diplomatic staff from Iraq increased instability and allowed the militants to regroup.

56e2cc5a35702a22d5458ae9.jpg




The warning signs were clear. ISIS ideology remained strong even after the caliphate was decimated militarily.

Related: Operation Inherent Resolve, Report to the United States Congress, April 1, 2019-June 30, 2019 (pdf)
Click to expand...

left the US's Syrian partners in the lurch, without the training or support they needed to confront a resurgent ISIS. In Iraq, the Iraqi security forces lack the necessary infrastructure to fight off ISIS for sustained periods.
Click to expand...

Bull****.

We've been training and supporting Iraq and others in the region for more than 15 years. If they aren't ready by now, they'll never be.

Screw them.
 
Sounds like someone in the pentagon wants another war in the middle East?
Do we keep a force there forever?
 
Mr Person said:
But there was another Mission Accomplished. How could this be?
Click to expand...

Rule Number One: Establish a clear mission.

Rule Number Two: Prior planning as to how the mission will be accomplished.

Rule Number Three: Mission accomplished is not possible when rules one and two are ignored or abrreviated. How is is possible to determine mission accomplished when the mission was never clear?
 
Mycroft said:
Bull****.

We've been training and supporting Iraq and others in the region for more than 15 years. If they aren't ready by now, they'll never be.

Screw them.
Click to expand...

You're the best part about Trump threads because no matter how objectively Trump failed, flubbed, or got dunked on you rub your two brain cells together to try and think of some way to lick Trump's boots. It's honestly an art form.
 
CMPancake said:
You're the best part about Trump threads because no matter how objectively Trump failed, flubbed, or got dunked on you rub your two brain cells together to try and think of some way to lick Trump's boots. It's honestly an art form.
Click to expand...

Why is it a failure on Trump's part? Is there some rule from a god that says we HAVE to spend our time and money in the Middle East?

Or do you just want like to spin everything as "TRUMP'S FAULT!!!"
 
Mycroft said:
Why is it a failure on Trump's part? Is there some rule from a god that says we HAVE to spend our time and money in the Middle East?

Or do you just want like to spin everything as "TRUMP'S FAULT!!!"
Click to expand...

It's Trump's failure because he campaigned that he could defeat ISIS. It's his fault because the Inspector General determined Trump's policies directly lead to ISIS resurgence. It's Trump's fault because he's the Leader of the Free World and that kind of accountability used to mean something before we elected a senile racist landlord.
 
Mycroft said:
Why is it a failure on Trump's part? Is there some rule from a god that says we HAVE to spend our time and money in the Middle East?

Or do you just want like to spin everything as "TRUMP'S FAULT!!!"
Click to expand...

The right obviously thought so when Obama wanted to withdraw and righties blamed him for ISIS. Myself I’m actually supporting trump on this one, we shouldn’t be there.
 
CMPancake said:
You're the best part about Trump threads because no matter how objectively Trump failed, flubbed, or got dunked on you rub your two brain cells together to try and think of some way to lick Trump's boots. It's honestly an art form.
Click to expand...

Orwell termed it "duckspeak".
 
Rogue Valley said:
A scathing new Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

The report specifically said President Donald Trump's decision to rapidly draw down troops in Syria and pull diplomatic staff from Iraq increased instability and allowed the militants to regroup.

56e2cc5a35702a22d5458ae9.jpg




The warning signs were clear. ISIS ideology remained strong even after the caliphate was decimated militarily.

Related: Operation Inherent Resolve, Report to the United States Congress, April 1, 2019-June 30, 2019 (pdf)
Click to expand...

Unless we are willing to literally take over and occupy a nation, and then commit massive economic, material, and cultural resources, all the while trying to maintain control, there isn't going to be much was can do in such a situation.

We should have learned from both Vietnam and Afghanistan that such knee-jerk commitment has little chance of succeeding if the efforts are contra to what the people who live there want.

I've always argued that the invasion of the Middle East post 9/11 was a major mistake. That we could have taken limited but aggressively focused action against the perpetrators via CIA hit squads and other less "invasive" means.

So, we got struck again in a mire of Middle Eastern Jihadi nonsense. Trump took office, then acted to kick ass and take names as we used to say. He's always wanted to do that and then get out. Leave them to it.

I say GOOD! Pull troops out of Syria, Afghanistan, and anywhere else they are not wanted...and let the locals figure it out for themselves.

I posted the following in my introduction as a new member shortly after joining this Forum, and reposted in my first blog:

1. I do not believe The United States is morally responsible for taking "some action" outside of our own national borders. We don't have the right nor duty to act as the "World's Policeman." I support humanitarian aid; and use of political influence to keep other nations out of foreign internal struggles.

2. Each nation is responsible for its own internal politics, no one should interfere. The people of each society must work things out on their own for there to be any chance of long-term stability. External interference typically serves to undermine the legitimacy of whichever factions wins, creating an unstable political environment ripe for further trouble.

3. It does not matter the form of political ideology that ends up in control without outside influence or interference. If it has a negative effect on the society it governs, history has shown that as long as examples of other more positive options exist outside that State, it will either collapse on it's own or it's people will eventually overthrow and replace it.
Click to expand...

https://www.debatepolitics.com/blogs/captain-adverse/1391-time-re-introduce-myself.html

So get the devil OUT I say.

Meanwhile beef up our border security, and intelligence apparatus. Then be wiling to "punish" anyone who even tries to assail us instead of sticking to their own borders and their own politics.
 
Last edited:
Captain Adverse said:
Unless we are willing to literally take over and occupy a nation, and then commit massive economic, material, and cultural resources, all the while trying to maintain control, there isn't going to be much was can do in such a situation.

We should have learned from both Vietnam and Afghanistan that such knee-jerk commitment has little chance of succeeding if the efforts are contra to what the people who live there want.

I've always argued that the invasion of the Middle East post 9/11 was a major mistake. That we could have taken limited but aggressively focused action against the perpetrators via CIA hit squads and other less "invasive" means.

So, we got struck again in a mire of Middle Eastern Jihadi nonsense. Trump took office, then acted to kick ass and take names as we used to say. He's always wanted to do that and then get out. Leave them to it.

I say GOOD! Pull troops out of Syria, Afghanistan, and anywhere else they are not wanted...and let the locals figure it out for themselves.

I posted the following in my introduction as a new member shortly after joining this Forum, and reposted in my first blog:



https://www.debatepolitics.com/blogs/captain-adverse/1391-time-re-introduce-myself.html

So get the devil OUT I say.

Meanwhile beef up our border security, and intelligence apparatus. Then be wiling to "punish" anyone who even tries to assail us instead of sticking to their own borders and their own politics.
Click to expand...

You're a true 18th century man.

We'll certify your arrival to the 21st century if it might ever occur. Which seems highly unlikely.

After all you'd have to trudge through the 20th century first to include its nationalism, isolationism and mass slaughter and destruction. Because after Hitler and WW II the victors recognized the absolute need to interpose morally and practically inside the borders of nations gone mad. Nations big and small alike.

In these respects people like yourself can lead, follow or get out of the way. Because you are attempting to reverse interpose, ie, act against this. And because isolationism is a cocoon.
 
Mycroft said:
Bull****.

We've been training and supporting Iraq and others in the region for more than 15 years. If they aren't ready by now, they'll never be.

Screw them.
Click to expand...

Screw them?

This is the kind of ignorance thinking that gave us Trump.

Listen and listen good. We do not do war for others. We do war to safeguard ourselves.

The notion which you imply, that we did Iraq a favor is ignorance. We never do any "favors".

Screw them? 911 happened here, I am surprised you did not know this.
 
noonereal said:
Screw them?

This is the kind of ignorance thinking that gave us Trump.

Listen and listen good. We do not do war for others. We do war to safeguard ourselves.

The notion which you imply, that we did Iraq a favor is ignorance. We never do any "favors".

Screw them? 911 happened here, I am surprised you did not know this.
Click to expand...

So...you prefer a slow drain of our blood and treasure? I don't. I think Trump did the right thing.

He ended ISIS geographical control in the region. We have already trained and supported various groups in the region. It's now time for them to control their own destinies.

Look. I'm not suggesting we totally abandon the region. We can help in ways that don't require massive amounts of money and American lives.

But if they expect the US to keep fighting ISIS for them...screw them.
 
Rogue Valley said:
A scathing new Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

The report specifically said President Donald Trump's decision to rapidly draw down troops in Syria and pull diplomatic staff from Iraq increased instability and allowed the militants to regroup.

56e2cc5a35702a22d5458ae9.jpg




The warning signs were clear. ISIS ideology remained strong even after the caliphate was decimated militarily.

Related: Operation Inherent Resolve, Report to the United States Congress, April 1, 2019-June 30, 2019 (pdf)
Click to expand...

14,000 ISIS militants driving around in pickup trucks, burning crops and harassing civilians is not our problem. If the IG wants to do something useful it should try to figure out why we are still in Afghanistan after 18 years.
 
Rogue Valley said:
A scathing new Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

The report specifically said President Donald Trump's decision to rapidly draw down troops in Syria and pull diplomatic staff from Iraq increased instability and allowed the militants to regroup.

56e2cc5a35702a22d5458ae9.jpg




The warning signs were clear. ISIS ideology remained strong even after the caliphate was decimated militarily.

Related: Operation Inherent Resolve, Report to the United States Congress, April 1, 2019-June 30, 2019 (pdf)
Click to expand...

Maybe the guys who wrote this "report" were the same ones who wrote the "report" on the death of Pat Tillman? Or maybe they are really ancient, and are the same ones who wrote the "report" on the Gulf Of Tonkin incident? Or maybe the same ones who wrote the "report" about the Iranians attacking a Japanese oil tanker when the crew reported missiles hitting the ship?

"Military Intelligence", the original oxymoron.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Rule Number One: Establish a clear mission.

Rule Number Two: Prior planning as to how the mission will be accomplished.

Rule Number Three: Mission accomplished is not possible when rules one and two are ignored or abrreviated. How is is possible to determine mission accomplished when the mission was never clear?
Click to expand...

Rule number 4: this is all subject to change.
 
apdst said:
Rule number 4: this is all subject to change.
Click to expand...

Indeed. And as a former soldier I know you know that when change happens, as it often will, you have contingency plans. As soon as possible you re-evaluate and/or amend rules one and two.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Maybe the guys who wrote this "report" were the same ones who wrote the "report" on the death of Pat Tillman? Or maybe they are really ancient, and are the same ones who wrote the "report" on the Gulf Of Tonkin incident? Or maybe the same ones who wrote the "report" about the Iranians attacking a Japanese oil tanker when the crew reported missiles hitting the ship?

"Military Intelligence", the original oxymoron.
Click to expand...

IMHO only Congress has the ability to declare war, as stipulated by the Constitution. The War Powers Resolution must be revisited and revised or better yet, nullified. Congress and POTUS have abused the resolution and will continue to do so whenever possible. It gives both the legislative and the executive the ability to slip the lizard to American citizens through plausible deniability while sending Joe and Jane Sixpack and their children into harm's way and later sending them the bill.

IF Congress publicly debated and voted US involvement in armed conflict I doubt Washington would be so quick to send America's finest off to make the world safe for multi-millionaires and billionaires.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Rule Number One: Establish a clear mission.

Rule Number Two: Prior planning as to how the mission will be accomplished.

Rule Number Three: Mission accomplished is not possible when rules one and two are ignored or abrreviated. How is is possible to determine mission accomplished when the mission was never clear?
Click to expand...

apdst said:
Rule number 4: this is all subject to change.
Click to expand...

Risky Thicket said:
Indeed. And as a former soldier I know you know that when change happens, as it often will, you have contingency plans. As soon as possible you re-evaluate and/or amend rules one and two.
Click to expand...

CSA Army had only two rules.

Rule Number One for the Confederate Army was that Gen. Lee is always right.

Rule Number Two was that when the general is wrong see rule number one.

And it became SOP for 'em to retreat and pull out the white flags.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Indeed. And as a former soldier I know you know that when change happens, as it often will, you have contingency plans. As soon as possible you re-evaluate and/or amend rules one and two.
Click to expand...

"No plan survives first contact with the enemy"
 
Tangmo said:
CSA Army had only two rules.

Rule Number One for the Confederate Army was that Gen. Lee is always right.

Rule Number Two was that when the general is wrong see rule number one.

And it became SOP for 'em to retreat and pull out the white flags.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to read an history book, or two. :lamo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom