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Thread: Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

  1. #31
    Educator TomFitz's Avatar
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    Re: Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    The question we must ask themselves is; After we withdraw from Afghanistan, can/will the Taliban reign-in international terrorist groups like al-Queda and ISIS?

    I believe the answer is no. And simply withdrawing and hoping for the best cost us 3,000 dead and 6,000 wounded in 2001.
    While I donít disagree, I hate to see this sort of issue expressed in such a vastly oversimplified way.

    The US deployed a large military presence in Saudi Arabia for a decade. This presence is what inspired 9/11. Osama Bin Ladin made that perfectly clear.

    The rises of ISIS and Al Quida in western Iraq is a direct consequence of our invasion of Iraq. Western Iraq has largely been lawless well before the US invasion, but the American invasion would up installing a Shia government in Baghdad, while all of western Iraq is Sunni, as is ISIS. Indeed, most of the command structure for ISIS in Iraq came from Saddamís old army and secret police.

    Trump did what the Russians wanted him to do.

    Withdraw American forces from supporting anti ISIS forces in western Iraq and Syria. The Russians wanted to consolidate their victory in Syria and further bolster their client state. Trump obliged.

    The Russians donít care about ISIS. Indeed, they see ISIS as a problem for the West.

    I am no arguing withdrawal or retreated into parochial isolationism.

    I am arguing for the intelligent use of our diplomatic, intelligence and military tools in a region that Americans and American politicians donít understand or know much about.

    There is no better example of that than John Bolton, whose arrogance is only matched by his thorough incompetence and belligerence.

  2. #32
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    Re: Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    IMHO only Congress has the ability to declare war, as stipulated by the Constitution. The War Powers Resolution must be revisited and revised or better yet, nullified. Congress and POTUS have abused the resolution and will continue to do so whenever possible. It gives both the legislative and the executive the ability to slip the lizard to American citizens through plausible deniability while sending Joe and Jane Sixpack and their children into harm's way and later sending them the bill.

    IF Congress publicly debated and voted US involvement in armed conflict I doubt Washington would be so quick to send America's finest off to make the world safe for multi-millionaires and billionaires.
    Amen bro!

    I think the War Powers Act from the 70's is basically good legislation for modern times. The trouble, as you note, is that Congress has NEVER obeyed its own legislation, and neither has the Executive.

    The most pernicious bit of legislation is the AUMF, pure legal sophistry if there ever was. That has given us all the abuses of the current fiasco brought by our Global War Of Terror.

  3. #33
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    Re: Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    "Lee's Lieutenants"

    "I Rode With Stonewall"


    "From Manassass to Appomatox: Memiors of The American Civil War"
    I read about the Confederate Army major who shot Stonewall mistakenly and killed him in the forest that fateful night. Thought Stonewall wuz a Yankee he did. What a way to go eh. Fighting Yankees then getting killed because some of your own men thought you were a Yankee spy or scout in the woods one night so they plugged you. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy actually.

    The killer major killed himself shortly after the war. So the article wuz a good read with excellent outcomes all around. I think I'm okay now on the reading thingy thx anyway. I appreciate your time and effort for the titles from off the top of your head.

    You got anything on Putin and Trump and their bromance? Although many of us over here know a lot already, inquiring minds want to know more. I'd be sure that with your contacts you'd know a lot. So don't be greedy with the info. Share and share alike.
    Republicans / Conservatives Making America Russia Instead

  4. #34
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    Re: Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by TomFitz View Post
    While I donít disagree, I hate to see this sort of issue expressed in such a vastly oversimplified way.
    I'm not suggesting dropping Army divisions into Afghanistan. That said, we can't just withdraw everyone either.


    ē We live in an extractive state, in which a ruling elite extracts wealth from the rest. ē

  5. #35
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    Re: Pentagon report blames Trump for the return of ISIS in Syria and Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Bull****.

    We've been training and supporting Iraq and others in the region for more than 15 years. If they aren't ready by now, they'll never be.

    Screw them.
    No, screw us.

    We've been training and supporting for so many years without understanding what we were even fighting.

    - We fought a war in Vietnam (and Laos and Cambodia) to stop the flow of communism to Indonesia (Domino Theory) without ever realizing that the Vietnamese were fighting a war of independence that saw the enemy as French, Japanese, French again, and then the U.S. Ho Chi Minh went from trying to rally support from Wilson, to getting U.S. support against he Japanese, to arguing with his Generals that the U.S. would help them against the returned French, to finally giving in to the realization that his Generals were right. We were at the back end of a radicalizing effort to oust foreign powers.

    - We have been fighting Islamists since 2001 to kill terrorists because "they hate our freedom," with ever caring to understand that ideology is rooted behind all of it. We simply throw bombs at it in the hopes that one day Islamists, who started to radicalize circa the late 1950s, will simply betray everything they believe in. And once again, one of their political goals (before they went militant) is to oust foreign powers. Generally speaking, they (Hassan al-Banna, etc.) were political opponents of monarchs and dictators who sold their countries to foreign powers, then they were jailed, tortured, and executed for causing political trouble, and those that emerged from the prisons (Qutb, etc.) grew ever more militant. Welcome to today's Islamist who has long come to the conclusion that he has no political voice, but will be heard one way or another. In the meantime, we send billions to the House of Saud in the form of aid, who thn turn around and historically fund madrassas around the world that teaches Wahhabism, an ideological basis for Islamists. (**Note that al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, Taliban, and IS are not Iranian, yet people like to declare that Iran is the #1 sponsor of global terrorism?)


    Anyway, in the end, the Vietnamese had their country and Islamists are still in their own region. So, in a nut shell, we have flushed trillions of dollars and sent troops off to die in foreign causes that we can't or refuse to understand. Thus, we turn military missions into obtuse ventures, which ultimately makes us "fail" in the eyes of people who have been told untruths and plain lies about why we deploy and what to expect from impractical goals. We spend billions on military technology. The Islamists spend $50 on an IED and convert foreign built airplanes into missiles. Who is getting a bigger bang for their buck? So, screw us.
    Last edited by MSgt; 08-29-19 at 01:14 PM.

    MSgt
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