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Thread: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

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    Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty


    A conventional cruise missile rises from San Nicolas Island, CA.

    8/19/19
    The Pentagon conducted a test of a land-based cruise missile on Sunday, the first such test since the U.S. pulled out of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty earlier this month. "On Sunday, August 18, 2019 at 2:30 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time, the Department of Defense conducted a flight test of a conventionally-configured ground-launched cruise missile at San Nicolas Island, California," the Pentagon said in a statement on Monday. "The test missile exited its ground mobile launcher and accurately impacted its target after more than 500 kilometers of flight." A U.S. official said the missile was a variant of a Tomahawk Land Attack Missile, designed to carry a conventional, not nuclear, payload. "Data collected and lessons learned from this test will inform the Department of Defense's development of future intermediate-range capabilities," the Pentagon said. The U.S. officially withdrew from the INF Treaty on Aug. 2 after the Trump administration declared Russia had long been in material breach of the Cold War arms-control pact. While analysts have warned that the treaty's end could lead to a dangerous new arms race, senior administration officials argued the U.S. had no choice but to terminate a deal that only one side was abiding by.

    The Pentagon began research and development efforts focused on mobile, conventional and ground-launched cruise and ballistic missile systems in 2017 that it described as being in the "early stages" due to America's compliance with the INF Treaty. "Now that we have withdrawn, the Department of Defense will fully pursue the development of these ground-launched conventional missiles as a prudent response to Russia's actions and as part of the Joint Force's broader portfolio of conventional strike options," Defense Secretary Mark Esper said in a statement on Aug. 2. Esper told reporters earlier this month that those weapons would be based in Asia but said the exact location requires further discussions with allies in the region.
    Although a new arms race isn't an automatic, the termination of the INF Treaty does have the potential to open the door.

    That said, Russia has been in INF non-compliance since at least 2010, if not before.

    Related: U.S. Tests Missile With A Range Prohibited By Now-Abandoned Treaty


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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty


    A conventional cruise missile rises from San Nicolas Island, CA.



    Although a new arms race isn't an automatic, the termination of the INF Treaty does have the potential to open the door.

    That said, Russia has been in INF non-compliance since at least 2010, if not before.

    Related: U.S. Tests Missile With A Range Prohibited By Now-Abandoned Treaty
    It is not just the Russian problem. China has deployed thousands of short range missiles which when paired with the longer range type threaten most US bases/carriers in the Pacific.


    Chinese military consider these 4 countries, SK, Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines as a choke on Chinese territorial ambitions.

    Now where will the US deploy these missiles? Australia has already said no
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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Now where will the US deploy these missiles? Australia has already said no
    Esper said further negotiations are necessary. Probably SK and the Philippines are out also.

    At least as long as Trump is in the White House. You can't trust that fat bastard.


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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    Esper said further negotiations are necessary. Probably SK and the Philippines are out also.

    At least as long as Trump is in the White House. You can't trust that fat bastard.
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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    It is not just the Russian problem. China has deployed thousands of short range missiles which when paired with the longer range type threaten most US bases/carriers in the Pacific.


    Chinese military consider these 4 countries, SK, Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines as a choke on Chinese territorial ambitions.

    Now where will the US deploy these missiles? Australia has already said no
    China is the likely reason the US pulled out of the INF treaty.
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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    China is the likely reason the US pulled out of the INF treaty.
    I would say a major reason why. Imagine what the Chinese military capabilities will be in 10 years?
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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    War is the father of all things. Heraclitus.


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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    It is not just the Russian problem. China has deployed thousands of short range missiles which when paired with the longer range type threaten most US bases/carriers in the Pacific.


    Chinese military consider these 4 countries, SK, Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines as a choke on Chinese territorial ambitions.

    Now where will the US deploy these missiles? Australia has already said no
    Esper and Pompeo are USMA grads and they together like the island positioning strategy they've derived from the island hopping strategy of WW II.

    Each has been traveling the Pacific focused on islands.


    Guam.

    Federated States of Micronesia.

    The Marshall Islands.

    Palau.

    Lombrum Naval Base on Manus Island, off Papua New Guinea.

    A shuttered naval facility on Midway Island (in the Northern Pacific) is likely to be reopened and expanded. We recall New Guinea and Midway hosted American military installations during the second world war.


    Pompeo is greasing the treaty skids while Esper is working on nailing down agreement to locate and position the missiles. Esper likes to say in several months but everyone knows this will go into another year or two at the least.

    Beijing's hopping mad flapping their arms and shouting so we know things aren't going so badly for the good guys. Eighty percent of their missiles are short and intermediate range. Matching and countering that blows up a lot of plans in Beijing.

    There are also some other positives.

    In 2016, Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government signed an agreement with SecDef Ashton Carter that allowed both countries to use each other’s bases, a move many at the time said is momentous and which Beijing and Moscow called horrendous along with Tehran and Syria.

    The two governments have also signed agreements on secure military communications and are looking to wrap up partnerships on sharing geospatial information and deepening defence industry cooperation. India and USA became strategic defense partners in 2014. Now almost everyone agrees China and India will not fight one another as neither will India and USA fight one another. (That leaves Russia odd man out ha.)

    India's become very positive on the F21 that will have technologies from the F22 and cutting-edge F35 models to build jointly in India which continues to move away from Russian military technologies. New Delhi has had a flood of complaints about the Su-35 which Moscow blames on Indian pilots and mechanics.

    India is btw training the Vietnam Navy in the six new Kilo Klass subs it just finished buying from Russia and that has the Klub missile that can penetrate into mainland China. India several years ago completed huge naval and air force bases on the Andaman islands at the north end of the Malacca Strait just to let Beijing know there's a new cop on the beat. The bases also cover the Bay of Bengal to Myanmar where China is building naval and air bases. Chinese oil tankers from the ME have to pass off the south of the subcontinent as it is.

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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    I would say a major reason why. Imagine what the Chinese military capabilities will be in 10 years?
    I can see China taking a shot at a US vessel.
    If China’s is stuck with Trump in 2020 and he won’t sign the usual toothless trade agreement, China might do a sneak attack. For example, a “rogue vessel” harassing a US ship with unsafe maneuvers, then suddenly releasing a short range torpedo, then rushing back into territorial waters, daring us to escalate.

    They will do it quick, sneaky, deniable, at minimum risk to themselves. They are waiting for 2020, too.
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    Re: Pentagon tests first land-based cruise missile after pulling out of INF Treaty

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    China is the likely reason the US pulled out of the INF treaty.
    No, it had far more to do with Russian intransigence.

    The Russians had pretty much been in violation of the treaty for almost a decade already. Their development of the SS-7 SCREWDRIVER in 2008 was a clear violation, a land based cruise missile. Meanwhile they would try to claim that testing rockets that the US used only at White Sands they would constantly say were violations. Pretty much they tried to protest anything the US tried to do (even non-weapon systems used for testing defensive systems), meanwhile they were building and deploying actual weapons that were clear violations.

    China has little impact on this, we long ago retired almost all systems that were under the prevue of the INF. And I have yet to hear of us bringing back the MGM-31 PERSHING, the main system that we eliminated because of the INF.

    And of all weapons to test as clearly outside the INF allowances, bringing back the ground launched cruise missile is more of a "See we did it" statement than anything else. It was always one of the lesser aspects of INF weapons, especially since we do not even use the Nuclear variant of the TOMAHAWK in service anymore. The last branch to use those was the Navy, and they retired them around a decade ago.
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