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Navy scrapping touchscreen controls on destroyers after deadly collisions: report

chuckiechan

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Navy scrapping touchscreen controls on destroyers after deadly collisions: report | Fox News

The U.S. Navy is ditching touchscreen controls on destroyers following fatal collisions involving the USS John S. McCain and the USS Fitzgerald.

The United States Naval Institute website reported that the Navy will be reverting its destroyers back to a physical throttle and traditional helm control system over the next 18 to 24 months.

Am I the only one who thinks that the reason for the change is really that they were hacked or otherwise interfered with and they’re don’t want to admit it?
 
Navy scrapping touchscreen controls on destroyers after deadly collisions: report | Fox News



Am I the only one who thinks that the reason for the change is really that they were hacked or otherwise interfered with and they’re don’t want to admit it?

It is possible however it is much more likely that the touchscreen controls were just universally hated to begin with and the collisions reinforced that hatred.

Poor design isn't limited to cars and trucks.
I mentioned that because I've almost crashed due to the stupid automatic transmission SHIFT KNOB that Chrysler (and several other manufacturers) has switched to.

PacificaLimitedControls3.jpg

Someone forgot to tell Chrysler and the other companies that vehicles aren't washing machines, and I guess someone forgot to tell the Navy that destroyers aren't video games.
 
I was in the Army. Does the US Navy not post lookouts any longer?

From what I've read and heard of these incidents watchstander performance was abysmal. These two accidents caused massive upheavals up to and including the commander of the seventh fleet. New training standards and organizations were instituted.
 
It is possible however it is much more likely that the touchscreen controls were just universally hated to begin with and the collisions reinforced that hatred.

Poor design isn't limited to cars and trucks.
I mentioned that because I've almost crashed due to the stupid automatic transmission SHIFT KNOB that Chrysler (and several other manufacturers) has switched to.

View attachment 67261887

Someone forgot to tell Chrysler and the other companies that vehicles aren't washing machines, and I guess someone forgot to tell the Navy that destroyers aren't video games.

There is always someone in power that wants to play with the latest toys.
 
Navy scrapping touchscreen controls on destroyers after deadly collisions: report | Fox News



Am I the only one who thinks that the reason for the change is really that they were hacked or otherwise interfered with and they’re don’t want to admit it?

I dont think they were hacked. I think it was as they said, basically a lack of training and experience and sleep. The change to a throttle and wheel helm will make the controls more intuitive. Basically what happened is everybody was overriding everyone else's inputs from the different stations. There was no station hierarchy it seems in the programing or somehow they manage to bypass it if there was. Personally I think it was the programming error in allowing the stations to override each other. That and absolute lack of control by the commanding officer on the deck at the time. The ability to operate functions of a vessel from any screen or station is a double edged sword especially in a vessel with more than one person running it. I think the navy realized that under stress its best to have actual helm controls especially if you have trainees on and off the helm station. Even the newest Virginia class subs have duplicate helms and physical controls.
 
When the helmsman of a navy warship can’t steer it, we have a problem.

I hope someone from the Navy chrips up.
I agree. I'm not familiar with this steering system; in my day the helmsman turned the helm and had direct feedback that the rudder was actually moving.
 
When the helmsman of a navy warship can’t steer it, we have a problem.

I hope someone from the Navy chrips up.
I'm not discounting equipment malfunctions at all. Just saying hacking is pretty low on the problem cause list, IMHO.
 
It is possible however it is much more likely that the touchscreen controls were just universally hated to begin with and the collisions reinforced that hatred.

Poor design isn't limited to cars and trucks.
I mentioned that because I've almost crashed due to the stupid automatic transmission SHIFT KNOB that Chrysler (and several other manufacturers) has switched to.

View attachment 67261887

Someone forgot to tell Chrysler and the other companies that vehicles aren't washing machines, and I guess someone forgot to tell the Navy that destroyers aren't video games.

Piss poor design, or more likely fad design.
 
It is possible however it is much more likely that the touchscreen controls were just universally hated to begin with and the collisions reinforced that hatred.

Poor design isn't limited to cars and trucks.
I mentioned that because I've almost crashed due to the stupid automatic transmission SHIFT KNOB that Chrysler (and several other manufacturers) has switched to.

View attachment 67261887

Someone forgot to tell Chrysler and the other companies that vehicles aren't washing machines, and I guess someone forgot to tell the Navy that destroyers aren't video games.

Wasn't this part of the issue with that actor from the star trek movies being crushed to death by his jeep? I was thinking there was something about that vehicle to where people couldn't clearly tell if it was in neutral or park.
 
By the way, the "helm" (ha ha I know it's not a helm) on that Chrysler (steering) is absolutely wonderful.
A 5400 pound van that handles (and accelerates) "almost" like a sports car and rides like an S Class MBZ.
You can actually get sideways in it and feel that it is in control.
It's just that idiotic knob that I hate.
I understand that it's all "by wire" now but one has to remember that it is still being controlled by humans and humans need a "LEVER" of some kind to shift. Our bodies and muscle memory are more inclined to understand shifting gears with a lever.
Don't ask me why. :)
Other than that it's one of the best built vehicles I've ever owned.

And boats/ships need a helm shaped like a wheel, there is no getting beyond that.
 
Wasn't this part of the issue with that actor from the star trek movies being crushed to death by his jeep? I was thinking there was something about that vehicle to where people couldn't clearly tell if it was in neutral or park.

Sigh, unfortunately yes. I don't remember if it was because they couldn't tell if it was in Neutral or Park or some other reason but the Jeep did have one of those knobs.
Thing is, you can EASILY TELL it's in whatever gear it is in...it's when you go to shift, your hands aren't going to be used to spinning a tiny knob one millimeter clockwise or anti-clockwise when you're driving.

When driving, and one needs to shift, one needs some kind of "lever or stick", even if it is just an electronic control anyway. The other thing is, in my van, that shift knob is very close to the radio and on one occasion my wife almost threw the van into PARK while trying to "adjust the volume."

Fortunately the engine computer just flashed a nag note on screen: "Vehicle speed too fast for PARK"

(
♪♩ DING! DING! DING! ♪♩)

"Excuse me, what the Hell are you doing shifting th...."

"OMG I am so sorry, I was trying to turn down the volume!"

 
GUIs are an art and a science, very tough to do correctly.
I wonder how much simulation time they had on the new systems...the actual people using it, before they used them for real. My guess, not long enough.
 
Sigh, unfortunately yes. I don't remember if it was because they couldn't tell if it was in Neutral or Park or some other reason but the Jeep did have one of those knobs.
Thing is, you can EASILY TELL it's in whatever gear it is in...it's when you go to shift, your hands aren't going to be used to spinning a tiny knob one millimeter clockwise or anti-clockwise when you're driving.

When driving, and one needs to shift, one needs some kind of "lever or stick", even if it is just an electronic control anyway. The other thing is, in my van, that shift knob is very close to the radio and on one occasion my wife almost threw the van into PARK while trying to "adjust the volume."

Fortunately the engine computer just flashed a nag note on screen: "Vehicle speed too fast for PARK"

(
♪♩ DING! DING! DING! ♪♩)

"Excuse me, what the Hell are you doing shifting th...."

"OMG I am so sorry, I was trying to turn down the volume!"


I have thrown a moving car in park on purpose before when its brakes went out and the emergency brake was useless. It wasn't as doom and gloom as you would think though I am pretty sure the grinding coming out of the transmission wasn't a good sign. May be different with new cars. That was an old buick grocery getter my parents had.
 
Wasn't this part of the issue with that actor from the star trek movies being crushed to death by his jeep? I was thinking there was something about that vehicle to where people couldn't clearly tell if it was in neutral or park.


The Jeep SUV that crushed "Star Trek" actor Anton Yelchin this weekend had been flagged by the automaker for a problem that could cause the vehicle to roll away.

Unlike most gear selectors, which are in forward or back positions depending on whether the car is in park, reverse, neutral or drive, these cars' gear selectors always return to the upright position after a driver changes gear. If a driver gets out of a car when it's in neutral, the vehicle could roll away.

So it did not have a rotary knob.

Here's the recall fix:



After seeing the video I can only conclude that the accident that killed the guy isn't entirely due to a Chrysler fault.
It was mostly due to simple carelessness, unfortunately.

The problem with the ROTARY shifter knob is that you think you're shifting from D to R or R to D and you can accidentally slam it into PARK or Neutral instead. I've now gotten into the habit of ALWAYS using the PARKING BRAKE as well, so no matter what, the vehicle will not move.
 
Navy scrapping touchscreen controls on destroyers after deadly collisions: report | Fox News



Am I the only one who thinks that the reason for the change is really that they were hacked or otherwise interfered with and they’re don’t want to admit it?

Most likely not hacked, it could be easily jammed or disabled by emp, however hacking it would be a monumental task, it most likely has to do with how poor the idea was implented vs how well the tried and true methods worked. It is likely the navy adoption of touchscren put bleeding edge over proven, and that the navy would not have had a problem if they had waited until more proven reliable tech and better training.
 
I have thrown a moving car in park on purpose before when its brakes went out and the emergency brake was useless. It wasn't as doom and gloom as you would think though I am pretty sure the grinding coming out of the transmission wasn't a good sign. May be different with new cars. That was an old buick grocery getter my parents had.

PARK is a COG so if the vehicle is going more than about seven or eight mph the cog won't even engage, it will just do what you heard, grind against the transmission output shaft.

The emergency brake is useless unless properly adjusted and most old Buicks (most old US cars!) didn't have properly adjusted emergency brakes because the owners never thought about it.

If the E-brake on my Prius, or my son's Scion, or my daughter's Volt or our Pacifica is out of adjustment or broken, the car will nag you endlessly till you deal with it. In fact I am almost sure the Pacifica van won't let you drive it if the E-brake is broken.

Depending on how old your parents car was, if you snapped a rear line or front hose, you still should have had SOME use from the other system, because in 1967 the Department of Transportation mandated dual-piston master cylinders and dual-circuit brake systems.

So if the front brakes went out, rear still worked, or if the rear brakes went out, the front brakes still worked albeit with much more pedal travel needed.

Pre 1967, if the brakes went out, it was all four wheels and you were SOL except for the "handbrake" or foot operated emergency brake.
 
PARK is a COG so if the vehicle is going more than about seven or eight mph the cog won't even engage, it will just do what you heard, grind against the transmission output shaft.

The emergency brake is useless unless properly adjusted and most old Buicks (most old US cars!) didn't have properly adjusted emergency brakes because the owners never thought about it.

If the E-brake on my Prius, or my son's Scion, or my daughter's Volt or our Pacifica is out of adjustment or broken, the car will nag you endlessly till you deal with it. In fact I am almost sure the Pacifica van won't let you drive it if the E-brake is broken.

Depending on how old your parents car was, if you snapped a rear line or front hose, you still should have had SOME use from the other system, because in 1967 the Department of Transportation mandated dual-piston master cylinders and dual-circuit brake systems.

So if the front brakes went out, rear still worked, or if the rear brakes went out, the front brakes still worked albeit with much more pedal travel needed.

Pre 1967, if the brakes went out, it was all four wheels and you were SOL except for the "handbrake" or foot operated emergency brake.

Sorry didn't mean to derail this thread with that. It was the master cylinder. pumping the brakes like mad did nothing. I did the in and out of park thing which slowed it some at least until I found a safe spot with no curbing to run off into a field and slid the car around until I lost enough speed to where it would stop.
 
Sorry didn't mean to derail this thread with that. It was the master cylinder. pumping the brakes like mad did nothing. I did the in and out of park thing which slowed it some at least until I found a safe spot with no curbing to run off into a field and slid the car around until I lost enough speed to where it would stop.

Hey sorry too, anyone wanted to add anything else about the Navy destroyers that steer like a video game?
This is largely about control surfaces more than about whether or not the hardware is functional.

Things like gear selectors and steering/helms evolved as they did rather naturally.
Early horseless carriages tried using tillers or handles that tried to resemble reins...didn't work out so well above five miles an hour or so, by twenty it was pure thrill seeking if you went over a bump.
The earliest sailing ships of the 15th century had wheels.
 
Most likely not hacked, it could be easily jammed or disabled by emp, however hacking it would be a monumental task, it most likely has to do with how poor the idea was implented vs how well the tried and true methods worked. It is likely the navy adoption of touchscren put bleeding edge over proven, and that the navy would not have had a problem if they had waited until more proven reliable tech and better training.

Touch screens are stupid for navigation anyway. I can just seem in war, shrapnel taking out all touchscreens. What do you do then?

We still need manual, robust, steering, throttles, etc.
 
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