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Thread: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by marke View Post
    What do you mean "get around death?" You do know that 10,000 people die every day just in America, don't you? Death is not the end of the story and God is perfectly capable of dealing with it on earth.
    Huh? That's not what I asked. How did you come up with 'get around death' when I wrote thou shall not kill.
    When I stop answering you, there's a reason.......repeat, When I stop answering you, there's a reason.

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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    I have worked with several units that are considered part of our "Special Warfare" units.

    The first was Seal Team Six, "Red Cell", or "DevGru" back when it was little more than a group of cowboys doing OPFOR under Captain Marcinko. In the early and mid 1980's, they were often used by the Navy to run security drills at various Navy bases. In short, they would turn the team loose against a base and after they tore apart the unit that defended the base they would then suggest changes to try and make it better.

    And after many successful "attacks" on Navy bases all over the world, they actually hit a brick wall at my base. Being a Naval Weapon Station in the middle of LA (and the LA Olympics barely a year past) we took security very seriously, and ran various attack scenarios several times a week. So when Red Cell did a big security operation against Seal Beach in 1986, they thought nothing much of it.

    Their mistake. Out of the 6 attempted penetrations of the High Security Marine areas, they never did more than minor penetrations. Total casualties were 4 "dead" on the Blue team, entire Red teams wiped out. However, the Civilian Security run administrative areas of the base fared much differently. Where they had some shots of 2 Marines on post talking to each other for periods of 10 minutes from 100 meters away, they actually got right inside the windshield of Civilian Security cruisers and had photos of them sleeping on their posts.

    And then there was the stink when they "kidnapped" the civilian head of security for the base and "tortured" him. This was a known part of the exercise, that anybody could be targeted for capture so proper personal security measures had to be taken. But the guy sued, and the failure of the team at Seal Beach was long an embarrassment for Red Cell.

    Of course, in later court martials Captain Dick was forced to retire, as well as several other members of Red Cell.

    Years later Captain Dick became famous when he wrote his "Tell All" "real life story" in a book called "Red Cell". And in talking with a great many over the years, it should really have been filed under fiction, because barely any of it is true. For example, he talks about a past operation in 1985, where they "wiped the floor with the Seal Beach security force". Oh, and how they used super-secret submarines to sneak into the base during the early recon phase of that operation.

    Super-secret subs hell, they drove right in the main gate! It was a 3 week operation. Week 1 was overt observation, trying to learn what they could by entering the base "legally" and doing such things as getting lost and driving to the wrong areas of base. In this, they never got outside of allowed administrative areas without being stopped.

    Phase 2 was covert observation and entry. Trying to use fake badges, entering the base to penetrate higher security areas just to look around. There were no successful entries with fake badges, we confiscated all of them and "held" the individuals for security. They never got closer than 100 meters of our Marines on post.

    Phase 3 was active penetration, theft attempts and sabotage. And yea, they made Civilian Security look like a bunch of clowns. But us Marines made his team look like a bunch of clowns. And in all of his books written since he loves to use Seal Beach as his scapegoat for a bad base.

    But to be fair, his drills made huge changes of the security there. The Marines were supposed to leave in 1987, and civilians take over all security. In essence, the Civilian Security was almost completely gutted and rebuilt, with DoD Police. And the gates and higher security areas were not handled by civilians, but instead uniform Navy personnel in late 1988 when the Marines finally did leave.

    Much of that because of how poorly they handled the Red Cell exercises, and how well we handled them.

    Red Cell is a fascinating book, Chapters 13 and 14 were mostly about that 1986 exercise. And it was almost completely wrong! He talks about penetrating nuclear bunkers on one side of the base, even though said bunkers were on the opposite side, and had been empty since 1984! And he goes on and on about the exercise happening in 1985, even though I know for a fact it was 1986 because I got married in December 1985 and I was married when the exercise happened.

    In most of his stories written afterwards, Seal Beach tends to be almost mythical. Either the most jacked-up base in the Navy, or the home of super-secret nuclear missile launch facilities and Area 51 type coprolite.

    Thankfully, I later worked with 3rd Force Recon and FAST, and both were much more serious than Red Cell was. I can only assume that once the first guys and Dick were finally given the axe they finally got serious and became a real SEAL team.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    I have worked with several units that are considered part of our "Special Warfare" units.

    The first was Seal Team Six, "Red Cell", or "DevGru" back when it was little more than a group of cowboys doing OPFOR under Captain Marcinko. In the early and mid 1980's, they were often used by the Navy to run security drills at various Navy bases. In short, they would turn the team loose against a base and after they tore apart the unit that defended the base they would then suggest changes to try and make it better.

    And after many successful "attacks" on Navy bases all over the world, they actually hit a brick wall at my base. Being a Naval Weapon Station in the middle of LA (and the LA Olympics barely a year past) we took security very seriously, and ran various attack scenarios several times a week. So when Red Cell did a big security operation against Seal Beach in 1986, they thought nothing much of it.

    Their mistake. Out of the 6 attempted penetrations of the High Security Marine areas, they never did more than minor penetrations. Total casualties were 4 "dead" on the Blue team, entire Red teams wiped out. However, the Civilian Security run administrative areas of the base fared much differently. Where they had some shots of 2 Marines on post talking to each other for periods of 10 minutes from 100 meters away, they actually got right inside the windshield of Civilian Security cruisers and had photos of them sleeping on their posts.

    And then there was the stink when they "kidnapped" the civilian head of security for the base and "tortured" him. This was a known part of the exercise, that anybody could be targeted for capture so proper personal security measures had to be taken. But the guy sued, and the failure of the team at Seal Beach was long an embarrassment for Red Cell.

    Of course, in later court martials Captain Dick was forced to retire, as well as several other members of Red Cell.

    Years later Captain Dick became famous when he wrote his "Tell All" "real life story" in a book called "Red Cell". And in talking with a great many over the years, it should really have been filed under fiction, because barely any of it is true. For example, he talks about a past operation in 1985, where they "wiped the floor with the Seal Beach security force". Oh, and how they used super-secret submarines to sneak into the base during the early recon phase of that operation.

    Super-secret subs hell, they drove right in the main gate! It was a 3 week operation. Week 1 was overt observation, trying to learn what they could by entering the base "legally" and doing such things as getting lost and driving to the wrong areas of base. In this, they never got outside of allowed administrative areas without being stopped.

    Phase 2 was covert observation and entry. Trying to use fake badges, entering the base to penetrate higher security areas just to look around. There were no successful entries with fake badges, we confiscated all of them and "held" the individuals for security. They never got closer than 100 meters of our Marines on post.

    Phase 3 was active penetration, theft attempts and sabotage. And yea, they made Civilian Security look like a bunch of clowns. But us Marines made his team look like a bunch of clowns. And in all of his books written since he loves to use Seal Beach as his scapegoat for a bad base.

    I remember penetration tests in the 1980s. They took out most of our Marine Barracks by literally coming up from the tunnels under the barracks that also connected to the E-Club.

    We hit back later when one of our Marines attached to Navy Base security spotted a couple of guys trying to hop the fence near the O-Club. The rules were if a Seal was nabbed he was to show ID and it turned into catch and release. Not these guys. They bolted. One was run down by multiple sailors. My guy hops in the truck and starts driving though the parking lot trying to cut the Seal off. Seal jumps from between two cars and my Marine smacks him solidly. Fortunately he survived with no serious injuries. The two seals started squaking about court martials and ass kicking... Nothing came of it as they are the ones breaking SOP.

    Fun days.

    I met the civilian network security guy attached to them years later. He was teaching network security. in the class he used our base (NAS Alameda) as an example of how not to do things more than once.
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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by jdog21 View Post
    Another SEAL testifies that he was the one who killed ISIS fighter - CNN
    This is sure to have an impact on our special forces communitys image.
    Should we wonder why these military men come home with PTSD? We should not be in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden has been dead for eight years now so we should get the hell out of that country. These men know they're not fighting a real war, it's a U.S. contrived war, for nothing. What are some doing, protecting poppy fields with their rifles defending them against others who want to destroy or steal the poppies for heroin? Is that a reason to lose your arm or eyesight? Men who fought in the 'real' wars, the World Wars-- fought for something and they knew it. Men fighting a non-war in Afghanistan are returning home to live as a disabled veteran for life with ****ty health care from the VA and PTSD, and some like this Marine feel the guilt of committing cold-blooded murder for the rest of his life.

    Our failed adventures in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan have drained Americaís power and diminished its prestige. The bloated Pentagon budget actually makes us weaker because it's resources that aren't going to other things we need right here in the US. If any other government budget got so much money and accomplished so little, this country would be up in arms complaining about wasteful government spending. And yet, Trump and his Congress continues to boost up the military budget by billions and more billions because it stimulates the economy, that's all it does and that's all Trump wants so he can brag about the economy. America doesn't need a huge army anymore. If we need to stimulate the economy, we can do it better by investing in infrastructure, education, or providing a better safety net. We certainly donít need a huge military so that our leaders can posture and political strategists can feel macho. War doesnít make sense anymore. It is time we recognized that. War in America today is nothing but a sorry combination of show business and fiscal stimulus. No wonder we canít seem to win.

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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I know exactly what I'm talking about. Do you?
    A whole heck of a lot more then you do. And it's rather obvious.
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, ďHe stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    Should we wonder why these military men come home with PTSD? We should not be in Afghanistan. Osama bin Laden has been dead for eight years now so we should get the hell out of that country. These men know they're not fighting a real war, it's a U.S. contrived war, for nothing. What are some doing, protecting poppy fields with their rifles defending them against others who want to destroy or steal the poppies for heroin? Is that a reason to lose your arm or eyesight? Men who fought in the 'real' wars, the World Wars-- fought for something and they knew it. Men fighting a non-war in Afghanistan are returning home to live as a disabled veteran for life with ****ty health care from the VA and PTSD, and some like this Marine feel the guilt of committing cold-blooded murder for the rest of his life.

    Our failed adventures in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan have drained America’s power and diminished its prestige. The bloated Pentagon budget actually makes us weaker because it's resources that aren't going to other things we need right here in the US. If any other government budget got so much money and accomplished so little, this country would be up in arms complaining about wasteful government spending. And yet, Trump and his Congress continues to boost up the military budget by billions and more billions because it stimulates the economy, that's all it does and that's all Trump wants so he can brag about the economy. America doesn't need a huge army anymore. If we need to stimulate the economy, we can do it better by investing in infrastructure, education, or providing a better safety net. We certainly don’t need a huge military so that our leaders can posture and political strategists can feel macho. War doesn’t make sense anymore. It is time we recognized that. War in America today is nothing but a sorry combination of show business and fiscal stimulus. No wonder we can’t seem to win.
    Hey you do realize this isn't the CT section right. This isn't the place for your little make believe stories. This site has a whole section just for such nonsense
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, ďHe stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    A whole heck of a lot more then you do. And it's rather obvious.
    Yeah! Sure!
    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    Che fought for freedom
    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    Only those indicted and found guilty by the Grand Jury.

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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah! Sure!
    Seeing as you are continually wrong on virtually every topic that you get involved in then yes it's a pretty safe bet I know more then you when it comes to SOF as well as pretty much everything else
    President Franklin Roosevelt eulogized a fallen American Soldier by saying, ďHe stands in the unbroken line of patriots who have dared to die [that] freedom might live, and grow, and increase its blessings. Freedom lives, and through it he lives--in a way that humbles the undertakings of most men."

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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    Seeing as you are continually wrong on virtually every topic that you get involved in then yes it's a pretty safe bet I know more then you when it comes to SOF as well as pretty much everything else
    Says the SF soldier that isn't familiar with basic infantry tactics.
    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    Che fought for freedom
    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    Only those indicted and found guilty by the Grand Jury.

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    Re: Navy seal medic admitts in court to murdering teen ISIS member

    Quote Originally Posted by HumblePi View Post
    Should we wonder why these military men come home with PTSD? We should not be in Afghanistan. <SNIP>

    These men know they're not fighting a real war, it's a U.S. contrived war, for nothing. <SNIP>

    Men who fought in the 'real' wars, the World Wars-- fought for something and they knew it. Men fighting a non-war in Afghanistan are returning home to live as a disabled veteran for life with ****ty health care from the VA and PTSD, and some like this Marine feel the guilt of committing cold-blooded murder for the rest of his life.

    Our failed adventures in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan have drained America’s power and diminished its prestige. The bloated Pentagon budget actually makes us weaker...<SNIP>

    America doesn't need a huge army anymore. <SNIP>

    No wonder we can’t seem to win.
    The historical record shows that there is some correct and some incorrect in your declarations. Because you are all over the map, I will try to sum up:

    - Yes, we should not be in Afghanistan anymore. It has long been overdue for our departure. Since we exist within a culture that likes to use ideology as a measure of success in our wars (democracy, freedom, unicorns), our politicians set impractical goals that leave U.S. Presidents fearful about "losing" as civilians judge and take it upon themselves to declare failure at every turn. Thus...we linger and kick the can to a future President. The lesson we refuse to learn is that a military is organized largely to meet military goals, not social ones for a foreign population; and many cases we don't even understand the enemy or the conflict. This is why "we can't seem to win anymore." The masses are constantly promised the impossible, beyond the practical mission. And don't confuse the military for the Marshal Plan after WWII, in which the Middle East has never received. Money and political coercion recreated Europe, not our military. We can kill the enemy; we cannot change his culture.

    - Men are dying in a conflict that involves combatants. "These men" know that they are fighting a real war. And since we have a voluntary military, these men purposefully chose to join with the full knowledge that deployment was in their future. They were not drafted. They are not victims of government. PTSD has always been a product. It doesn’t matter whether we fight Germans, who did not attack America, or Afghans, who did not attack America. Since the Revolution, all our wars have been about economy. Don’t kid yourself with the false ideologies.

    - The idea that the VA offers "****ty" health care is old hat. Its fine and the arguments you hear are largely about political exploitation, especially when they can find a case example that they can kick to death as a definition of the whole. This is not the 1980s VA anymore.

    - No, this was a Navy Seal...not a Marine. And it’s all murder. In war, it is merely sanctioned.

    - No, "Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan have not drained America’s power. Our military power is constantly replenished. The very fact that there exists a Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, Afghanistan, and Iraq illustrates this. However, yes, these three wars have gone towards diminishing prestige. Add this to our Cold War history of the CIA's near absolute failure since its inception, and we have the story for how misguided we have been since inheriting this world from the colonial powers.

    - Yes, we do need a big military. What we don't need is the gross budgeting that goes to the Defense Industry. We do not have the luxury of reducing ourselves. Republicans and Democrats (or Morons) reduced the military after WWII and this left us entirely drowning when the North Koreans crossed the 38th Parallel in 1949. Republicans and Democrats (or Morons) argued to reduce the military after the Cold War ended. Like before, they were wrong. They began exhausting the military (Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Haiti, and so many other missions). In the meantime, Clinton went on to deal with the deficit and American debt throughout the 1990s and targeted Defense spending. But as the military was drowning in "Awaiting Parts," and cancelled exercises due to a lack of material, the Defense Industry continued to get gross and bloated contracts to build toys. Directly after 9/11, our troops found themselves deploying with duct tape on their NBC Suits and purchasing body armor. Direct your criticism towards the Senators who care more about providing jobs to civilians in their states by funding bloated Defense contracts and not on funding the actual military.

    - And Trump is a whole 'nother thing. His existence and his behaviors have merely shed light on the BS that a certain element of our population used to get away with. Most disappointing of this element are the Veterans who look the other way every time he tells them to so that he can get away with insulting their honorable service.
    Last edited by MSgt; 07-29-19 at 09:48 AM.

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