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Germany Plans to Cut Military Spending in 2020-2023 in Affront to US - Report

Lord Tammerlain

Lord Tammerlain

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Germany Plans to Cut Military Spending in 2020-2023 in Affront to US - Report


Germany’s defence budget has been an apple of discord in relations between Berlin and Washington as the US president has repeatedly criticised its ally across the Atlantic for missing the NATO target of spending 2% of GDP on the armed forces.

The German armed forces, the Bundeswehr, will lose 33 billion euros from 2020 to 2023, German outlet Welt am Sonntag reports, citing the country’s Ministry of Defense's confidential "Financial Needs Analysis 2020".

The German government has recently passed a budget bill for the next year, which also includes financial planning until 2023. According to it, the German military will receive 44.9 billion euros in 2020, but the military spending is expected to drop from 44.1 to 43.9 billion euros starting in 2021. Thus, the share of the military spending in the gross domestic product (GDP) will fall from 1.37 percent in 2020 to 1.24 percent in 2023 and moves even further from the NATO target of 2 percent.
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Surprised not to have seen anything posted about this before
 
Military spending is a scam. Another way for the rich to steal from the poor. Too bad so many people fail to understand that fact.
 
bearpoker said:
Not surprising. People hate bullies and want to push back at them. It's only natural.
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When in history has not paying for your own country's defense been any form of pushback towards an act of bullying? And, in your opinion bearpoker, what has the United States done to bully Germany? I do not mean the blather of Donald Trump, but what has the United States done to actually harm Germany?
 
Felis Leo said:
When in history has not paying for your own country's defense been any form of pushback towards an act of bullying? And, in your opinion bearpoker, what has the United States done to bully Germany? I do not mean the blather of Donald Trump, but what has the United States done to actually harm Germany?
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I mean the blather of Donald Trump. His attacks on NATO. His aggressive demands that they increase their military spending. His hostile, bullying attitude generates hostility in return. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's why smart people use honey.
 
Felis Leo said:
When in history has not paying for your own country's defense been any form of pushback towards an act of bullying? And, in your opinion bearpoker, what has the United States done to bully Germany? I do not mean the blather of Donald Trump, but what has the United States done to actually harm Germany?
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The German people should be kissing Reagan's ass.

This is nothing more than the usual castrated EU leadership acting tough....... "Cafe Mocha Latte" style.

The EU should go it alone, and patrol the Med. A responsibility that they have shirked since NATO began.
 
bearpoker said:
Not surprising. People hate bullies and want to push back at them. It's only natural.
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Yes..because those pesky people working and paying for your defense are sooooo evil...

Stop payments on your house or car. Let us know how that goes.
 
akyron said:
Yes..because those pesky people working and paying for your defense are sooooo evil...

Stop payments on your house or car. Let us know how that goes.
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What do I have to do with Germany's defense spending? When did I call anyone in the military evil? Your whole post makes no sense.
 
bearpoker said:
Your whole post makes no sense.
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I defer to your much greater experience with "making no sense."

Have you stopped paying your bills? How did it go?
 
bearpoker said:
I mean the blather of Donald Trump. His attacks on NATO. His aggressive demands that they increase their military spending. His hostile, bullying attitude generates hostility in return. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's why smart people use honey.
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But irrespective of Donald Trump's rhetoric, it is the height of governmental irresponsibility not to spend an appropriate amount on your nation's defense, especially when one's nation has an extremely aggressive and hostile neighbor as Germany has in Russia who also controls their energy supply. Cutting one's country's defense spending to raise the middle finger up to one's own ally is not standing up to a bully. It is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Donald Trump may not be in office by 2023. Russia will still be there.
 
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Felis Leo said:
But irrespective of Donald Trump's rhetoric, it is the height of governmental irresponsibility not to spend an appropriate amount on your nation's defense, especially when one's nation has an extremely aggressive and hostile neighbor as Germany has in Russia who also controls their energy supply. Cutting one's country's defense spending to raise the middle finger up to one's own ally is not standing up to a bully. It is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
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There are more effective ways to deal with Russia than beefing up your military. A lot of Russia's aggression is cyber based and their effective propaganda machine.
 
Merkel talked about 'the need of a separate 'EU military', because in her opinion, Germany can't rely on the US Armed Forces to be their protector anymore. Of course its all rubbish, and the EU has wanted to transfer power from nation states to Brussels for quite some time. Germany probably needs the money they'll save from military spending cuts to pay for the utopian society they're installing, so increased welfare, police, and incarceration spending.
 
bearpoker said:
I mean the blather of Donald Trump. His attacks on NATO. His aggressive demands that they increase their military spending. His hostile, bullying attitude generates hostility in return. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. That's why smart people use honey.
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This is not "blather", it is not bullying.

It is actually a formal NATO agreement that they would each spend at a minimum 2% of their GDP on defense. Every country in NATO agreed to do that in 2014 as part of the Wales Declaration on the Transatlantic Bond.

And as proof of that, I present Paragraph 5, of that agreement, dated 5 September 2014:

5. We recognise that these steps will take the necessary effort and funding. In light of this, we agree to reverse the trend of declining defence budgets and aim to increase defence expenditure in real terms as GDP grows; we will direct our defence budgets as efficiently and effectively as possible; we will aim to move towards the existing NATO guideline of spending 2% of GDP on defence within a decade, with a view to fulfilling NATO capability priorities. We will display the political will to provide required capabilities and deploy forces when they are needed.
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NATO - Official text: The Wales Declaration on the Transatlantic Bond, 05-Sep.-2014

So this is the first time that I have heard of insisting that other nations actually doing what they had agreed to do as "bullying". I guess that if you stop paying your bills the debt collectors are bullying you.
 
calamity said:
Military spending is a scam. Another way for the rich to steal from the poor. Too bad so many people fail to understand that fact.
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The poor have tended to be the ones who get slaughtered when equipment is ineffective or in poor shape due to a lack of military spending
 
Mycroft said:
Well, with a GDP growth rate of less than 1%, I don't blame them. The way things are going, it is likely to get worse. They need to plan ahead for when it gets to zero.
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Actually, it is closer to 2%.

And if inflation takes more of your paycheck, does that mean you no longer have to pay your bills?

Remember, 2% of GDP actually means that it increases when the GDP goes up, decreases when it falls. And right now they (and mot of the world) are coming out of a slump and GDP is increasing. Therefore so should their expenditures.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Actually, it is closer to 2%.
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Nope. Not even close to 2% GDP growth rate.

Germany GDP Growth Rate | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News

And if inflation takes more of your paycheck, does that mean you no longer have to pay your bills?
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Depends upon your contract.

Remember, 2% of GDP actually means that it increases when the GDP goes up, decreases when it falls. And right now they (and mot of the world) are coming out of a slump and GDP is increasing. Therefore so should their expenditures.
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Yes. Let me know when their GDP grows.
 
Oozlefinch said:
This is not "blather", it is not bullying.

It is actually a formal NATO agreement that they would each spend at a minimum 2% of their GDP on defense. Every country in NATO agreed to do that in 2014 as part of the Wales Declaration on the Transatlantic Bond.

And as proof of that, I present Paragraph 5, of that agreement, dated 5 September 2014:


NATO - Official text: The Wales Declaration on the Transatlantic Bond, 05-Sep.-2014

So this is the first time that I have heard of insisting that other nations actually doing what they had agreed to do as "bullying". I guess that if you stop paying your bills the debt collectors are bullying you.
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Germany is paying its bills. The German federal government has a budget surplus.

Now if you read the statement it does not say that they will increase military spending to 2%, just that they aim to do so.
 
Mycroft said:
Nope. Not even close to 2% GDP growth rate.

Germany GDP Growth Rate | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast | News
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You are aware that that is a quarterly breakdown, are you not?

If it continues at the same rate, that is .4% over 4 quarters, for a total of 1.6%. That is almost 2%, so yes very close.

And please oh please, tell me what contract states that if you are not making enough money you do not have to pay your bills. I would love to see an example of that.
 
Oozlefinch said:
You are aware that that is a quarterly breakdown, are you not?

If it continues at the same rate, that is .4% over 4 quarters, for a total of 1.6%. That is almost 2%, so yes very close.

And please oh please, tell me what contract states that if you are not making enough money you do not have to pay your bills. I would love to see an example of that.
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You are correct about the quarterly breakdown. I stand corrected.

About the contract...you brought it up. I didn't. Anyway, we aren't talking about contracts. We are talking about NATO agreements.

If you go back to my first post, I was only speculating about how Germany is probably, given it's drop in GDP, thinking to justify its reduced military spending because of that drop in GDP that very well could continue over the coming years.
 
Felis Leo said:
But irrespective of Donald Trump's rhetoric, it is the height of governmental irresponsibility not to spend an appropriate amount on your nation's defense, especially when one's nation has an extremely aggressive and hostile neighbor as Germany has in Russia who also controls their energy supply.
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Except it doesn't. German-Russian relations are far better than American-Russian relations.
 
Oozlefinch said:
You are aware that that is a quarterly breakdown, are you not?

If it continues at the same rate, that is .4% over 4 quarters, for a total of 1.6%. That is almost 2%, so yes very close.

And please oh please, tell me what contract states that if you are not making enough money you do not have to pay your bills. I would love to see an example of that.
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Which bill are they not paying?
 
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