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Germany Plans to Cut Military Spending in 2020-2023 in Affront to US - Report

Glitch said:
I'm not referring to the National Guard that only train two weeks out of the year, I'm talking about active duty military. If you happened to live near your home on active duty, then you were one of the extreme few. 99.99% of all active duty military personnel are assigned hundreds or thousands of miles from their homes and they are on duty 24/7.
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No we're not, lol. I got weekends off except when we were on mission. We all did, except for shift workers.

France couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper sack. The last war it won was the French Revolution more than 200 years ago, and it only won that war because they were fighting themselves. I have no idea what gave you the truly bizarre delusion that France was capable of fighting, because there certainly is no history to support it. Literally everyone has beaten the French, some repeatedly.
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That's blatantly not true. French combat operations in Africa for the past twenty years have all been successful. The French have among the most proud military history in the world, their performance at Verdun one of the most impressive stands in all of history. I suggest you read a bit more than WWII.
 
Grand Mal said:
Agreed 100%.
NATO accomplished it's mission when they (and this was mostly an American accomplishment) tricked and lured the Soviet Union into spending itself into oblivion in an 'arms race'.
Vigilance is needed, though, to watch for signs of Russia assembling the buffer between themselves and western Europe that they've always loved.
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NATO was created to counter the Soviet threat. It was the incorporation of West Germany into NATO in 1955 that created the Warsaw Pact. Today I'm not sure who is the worse aggressor, Russia after its invasion of the Ukraine, or NATO after its planned incorporation of the Baltic nations. NATO can only antagonize Russia for so long before they push back. It is as if the US is goading Russia into invading Europe.
 
Glitch said:
France invaded Germany on August 7, 1914, January 11, 1923, and September 7, 1939. In 1923 both France and Belgium invaded Germany.
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And Germany invaded France thrice, Poland, Russia, the Soviet Union, Denmark, Norway, Italy, Romania, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, North Africa, Belgium twice, the Netherlands, Greece, and Hungary.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
And Germany invaded France thrice, Poland, Russia, the Soviet Union, Denmark, Norway, Italy, Romania, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, North Africa, Belgium twice, the Netherlands, Greece, and Hungary.
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That doesn't change the fact that France invaded Germany more than Germany invaded France. Yet you have no problems with France, even though they also marched across Europe conquering nations.
 
Glitch said:
That doesn't change the fact that France invaded Germany more than Germany invaded France. Yet you have no problems with France, even though they also marched across Europe conquering nations.
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No they didn't. France "invaded" Germany exactly twice in the modern era, in the Franco-Prussian War and WWII. But to argue that these bear the same equivalence as German invasions is ridiculous. The French were basically tricked into attacking by Bismark in 1871, and in 1939 were responded to blatant German aggression against Poland. The French occupation of the Ruhr was a result of German efforts to manipulate their currency, thus not paying the reparations they owed.

Also, the French never engaged near anywhere on the scale of industrial genocide the Germans did in Europe.
 
Glitch said:
The problem is one of hegemony. By abolishing NATO, which is really just an excuse for a US presence in Europe and beyond, it would make the US appear weak. By keeping NATO alive the US can use it against Russia by incorporating former Warsaw Pact nations, like Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Poland. Ever inching closer towards Moscow.

Meanwhile, the US can use NATO to shape the Slavic nations, like occupying Bosnia, Kosovo and dividing Macedonia into two.

Even though the right thing to do would be for the US to pull out of Europe and allow Europeans to deal with their own problems, I seriously doubt US leadership (Democrat or Republican) has any inclination of reducing the influence the US has in Europe through NATO.
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I remember watching an interview with then-Russian President Medvedev in 2008 about the possibility of Russia joining the EU, as well as NATO. Back then, this was a real possibility that was being entertained by all sides. Rather than dissolving NATO, this would have been a powerful check on China. It would have significantly increased global security and stability.

But with petty and small minded leadership with the likes of Putin and Trump, who see the world in terms of a zero sum game, The world is dissolving back into more and more small and perennially bickering states.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
And Germany invaded France thrice, Poland, Russia, the Soviet Union, Denmark, Norway, Italy, Romania, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, North Africa, Belgium twice, the Netherlands, Greece, and Hungary.
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And all this is not to mention Germany’s invasion of France just a few decades before that in the Franco Prussian war.
 
Glitch said:
All the EU nations militaries are a joke, Germany is not the exception here. They even go home on weekends. They are more of an hindrance as an ally than a help. Of all the militaries in Europe, only the UK is any good. Which is why you will see the US and UK partnering up militarily more often than you will see the US partnering up with any other nation. France in particular is notoriously bad. Only the French Foreign Legion is capable of fighting, and that is because none of them are French.
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Or French that the French dont like or want hanged.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The German people should be kissing Reagan's ass.

This is nothing more than the usual castrated EU leadership acting tough....... "Cafe Mocha Latte" style.

The EU should go it alone, and patrol the Med. A responsibility that they have shirked since NATO began.
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Patrol the Med for what, starving African refugees?
 
Glitch said:
Germany has been invaded more than it has invaded others. Using your logic the US would be required to have military bases in France, Spain, Italy, and Austria because none of them can be trusted since they have all repeatedly invaded other nations.

NATO was created specifically to serve only one purpose: To counter the Warsaw Pact. The Warsaw Pact ceased to exist after the USSR fell in 1989. NATO should have followed suit. Instead, NATO is now the threat.
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Actually, "Germany" as such has only existed since 1814 at the earliest. That is when the German Confederation was hammered out after the fall of Napoleon. But even that was more or less akin to calling the United States under the Articles of Confederation the United States. The German Confederation was still a weak and fractured nation, where several factions were fighting for power. The nation we call "Germany" today was not created until 1871 when Emperor William I assumed control of what was for the first time a unified Germany.

A country that only existed until 1918.

And your failure about the foundation of NATO is also wrong.

NATO was founded on 4 April 1949.

The Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance (Warsaw Pact) was not founded until 14 May 1955, in response to the creation of NATO 6 years prior.

And no, it did not fall in 1989 when the USSR fell. The Warsaw Pact was disbanded on 1 July 1991 after the governments of Albania, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Romania, and Bulgaria all gave formal notice to the Soviet Union that they were leaving the Pact. At that point the USSR bowed to the inevitable and dissolved it themselves.

And once again, you badly screwed up your dates. The Soviet Union itself did not have it's failed coup until August 1991, and was formally dissolved in December 1991.

Please, next time take a little time to fact check yourself. It does not do to look silly in making so many obvious mistakes.
 
Glitch said:
All the EU nations militaries are a joke, Germany is not the exception here. They even go home on weekends. They are more of an hindrance as an ally than a help. Of all the militaries in Europe, only the UK is any good. Which is why you will see the US and UK partnering up militarily more often than you will see the US partnering up with any other nation. France in particular is notoriously bad. Only the French Foreign Legion is capable of fighting, and that is because none of them are French.
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The us military goes home on weekends too unless they are on the duty roster for the weekend. I had nights off and weekends off except shift changes in which we would get days off instead of nights and if during the weekend we would get certain days during the week off, except during deployment or during field training there was usually no less than one day off per week but most of the time two days off per week.
 
Felis Leo said:
But irrespective of Donald Trump's rhetoric, it is the height of governmental irresponsibility not to spend an appropriate amount on your nation's defense, especially when one's nation has an extremely aggressive and hostile neighbor as Germany has in Russia who also controls their energy supply. Cutting one's country's defense spending to raise the middle finger up to one's own ally is not standing up to a bully. It is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. Donald Trump may not be in office by 2023. Russia will still be there.
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It would be normally, but here it is really unnecessary. Germany is surrounded by vassals or friends, and those friends are protected (without the kvetching) Their economic interests are aligned with others interests who must keep the lanes of commerce open for themselves. Why pay when it is provided?

Russia isn't cutting off the energy supply because:

1) Oligarch's like money

and

2) Oil and gas is 30% of Russia's GDP.

Low prices are already cramping their style, so it would be completely foolish to play games, and Germany knows this.
 
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