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Germany Plans to Cut Military Spending in 2020-2023 in Affront to US - Report

Jredbaron96 said:
Except it doesn't. German-Russian relations are far better than American-Russian relations.
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And Russian relations with neighboring Ukraine were relatively cordial too. Until they weren't. My point is that Russia does not hesitate to use force to bring its neighbors into line, whether it is cutting off energy, online disinformation campaigns, propaganda and dissemination of false information, or outright military force via proxies and their own military. German-Russian relations are good presently because Germany is buying a massive amount of cheap Russian petrochemical energy, while the United States foots a major portion of the country's collective defense against that same energy supplier.

The situation is not unlike a scene I saw while in family law court in which a woman wanted the Court to issue a restraining order against her violent abusive boyfriend, but she asked that the restraining order be modified to allow her to communicate and spend time with her boyfriend at her discretion. The judge rightfully denied her request.
 
Felis Leo said:
And Russian relations with neighboring Ukraine were relatively cordial too. Until they weren't. My point is that Russia does not hesitate to use force to bring its neighbors into line, whether it is cutting off energy, online disinformation campaigns, propaganda and dissemination of false information, or outright military force via proxies and their own military. German-Russian relations are good presently because Germany is buying a massive amount of cheap Russian petrochemical energy, while the United States foots a major portion of the country's collective defense against that same energy supplier.
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German relations with Russia are better than American-Russian relations because Germany sees itself as the bridge between East and West. That's why the Germans are willing to negotiate with Moscow where Washington isn't.

Either way, it's irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Russia is not about to take military action against Germany, and the biggest issue with German military spending is a cultural one, not a matter of geopolitics.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The German people should be kissing Reagan's ass.

This is nothing more than the usual castrated EU leadership acting tough....... "Cafe Mocha Latte" style.

The EU should go it alone, and patrol the Med. A responsibility that they have shirked since NATO began.
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The EU may decide to stick together, and leave the US. Then when the US goes to war with Iran, the US will be screwed.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Big woop!

When are we going to war with Iran?
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It looks like a real possibility, and you should want some allies going in. America can't keep getting in endless wars with no allies, and expect nothing to go wrong.
 
SheWolf said:
The EU may decide to stick together, and leave the US. Then when the US goes to war with Iran, the US will be screwed.
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Not bloody likely.

In case you have not noticed, one of the major powers in the EU is leaving it. And France keeps waffling in and out of how much it will support NATO.

Are you even aware that 3/4 of NATO is funded by the US? Yea, make their own force, something that have never been able to do, and they have tried many times.

Get with reality and not fantasy.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Not bloody likely.

In case you have not noticed, one of the major powers in the EU is leaving it. And France keeps waffling in and out of how much it will support NATO.

Are you even aware that 3/4 of NATO is funded by the US? Yea, make their own force, something that have never been able to do, and they have tried many times.

Get with reality and not fantasy.
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The US does not fund 3/4 of NATO. It funds 24% or so of NATO.

The US's military budget is 3/4 of all NATO countries combined. Perhaps 30% of US military spending is directly tied to NATO the rest is spent on other non NATO related issues
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Germany Plans to Cut Military Spending in 2020-2023 in Affront to US - Report





Surprised not to have seen anything posted about this before
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Germany is the laughing stock of nato, they are at the point they are lucky if they have one functional aircraft or ship or tank. They neglected their budget badly post soviet union and with their nato obligation in afghanistan they used their gear but neglected any upkeep meaning their armed forces are so weak right now a third world country could over run germany if not for nato backup. They are the prime example of exploiting america for defense so they can use what should be on defense as social programs which is why germany is usualy the target of trump as well as other nato mmbers.

Bulgaria is more prepared and they are the poorest country in europe, greece meets nato spending requirements despite being near bankrupt, many other poorer nations can ether meet the requirements or come as close as possible, while germany the biggest gdp in europe can barely keep a tank or ship in action, it is literally germany going to the highest degree to expect someone else to pay for their defense and not actually have to spend any large amount of their own to care for it.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The German people should be kissing Reagan's ass.

This is nothing more than the usual castrated EU leadership acting tough....... "Cafe Mocha Latte" style.

The EU should go it alone, and patrol the Med. A responsibility that they have shirked since NATO began.
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I completely agree. Let Germany and the rest of the EU go it alone. NATO should have been abolished after the Warsaw Pact fell. NATO has not served a useful purpose in 30 years.
 
beerftw said:
Germany is the laughing stock of nato, they are at the point they are lucky if they have one functional aircraft or ship or tank. They neglected their budget badly post soviet union and with their nato obligation in afghanistan they used their gear but neglected any upkeep meaning their armed forces are so weak right now a third world country could over run germany if not for nato backup. They are the prime example of exploiting america for defense so they can use what should be on defense as social programs which is why germany is usualy the target of trump as well as other nato mmbers.

Bulgaria is more prepared and they are the poorest country in europe, greece meets nato spending requirements despite being near bankrupt, many other poorer nations can ether meet the requirements or come as close as possible, while germany the biggest gdp in europe can barely keep a tank or ship in action, it is literally germany going to the highest degree to expect someone else to pay for their defense and not actually have to spend any large amount of their own to care for it.
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All the EU nations militaries are a joke, Germany is not the exception here. They even go home on weekends. They are more of an hindrance as an ally than a help. Of all the militaries in Europe, only the UK is any good. Which is why you will see the US and UK partnering up militarily more often than you will see the US partnering up with any other nation. France in particular is notoriously bad. Only the French Foreign Legion is capable of fighting, and that is because none of them are French.
 
Glitch said:
I completely agree. Let Germany and the rest of the EU go it alone.
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Yes, because when Germany has been left alone to build up its military in the past, it has worked out so well for peace and stability!:roll:
 
ataraxia said:
Yes, because when Germany has been left alone to build up its military in the past, it has worked out so well for peace and stability!:roll:
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Germany has been invaded more than it has invaded others. Using your logic the US would be required to have military bases in France, Spain, Italy, and Austria because none of them can be trusted since they have all repeatedly invaded other nations.

NATO was created specifically to serve only one purpose: To counter the Warsaw Pact. The Warsaw Pact ceased to exist after the USSR fell in 1989. NATO should have followed suit. Instead, NATO is now the threat.
 
Glitch said:
All the EU nations militaries are a joke, Germany is not the exception here. They even go home on weekends.
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lol what

So do we. I drove home every weekend my dad was around when I was stationed in Fort Hood.


France in particular is notoriously bad. Only the French Foreign Legion is capable of fighting, and that is because none of them are French.
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Yeah, no. They're probably the third best in the world after the US and Russia.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
lol what

So do we. I drove home every weekend my dad was around when I was stationed in Fort Hood.

Yeah, no. They're probably the third best in the world after the US and Russia.
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I'm not referring to the National Guard that only train two weeks out of the year, I'm talking about active duty military. If you happened to live near your home on active duty, then you were one of the extreme few. 99.99% of all active duty military personnel are assigned hundreds or thousands of miles from their homes and they are on duty 24/7. The majority of the European military don't bother to train on weekends or holidays. They are worse than Canada, which is saying a lot.

France couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper sack. The last war it won was the French Revolution more than 200 years ago, and it only won that war because they were fighting themselves. I have no idea what gave you the truly bizarre delusion that France was capable of fighting, because there certainly is no history to support it. Literally everyone has beaten the French, some repeatedly.
 
Glitch said:
Germany has been invaded more than it has invaded others.
.
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Germany only became a nation in the second half of the 19th century. From the Franco Prussian war to the end of World War II, how many times did they invade, and how many times were they invaded?

I would be very nervous about leaving them completely unsupervised again and just telling them to be responsible for their own military. They can do that alright. They have had too much of a track record of always taking that too far.
 
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ataraxia said:
Germany only became a nation in the second half of the 19th century. From the Franco Prussian war to the end of World War II, how many times did they invade, and how many times were they invaded?

I would be very nervous about leaving them completely unsupervised again and just telling them to be responsible for their own military. They can do that alright. They have had too much of a track record of always taking that too far.
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France invaded Germany on August 7, 1914, January 11, 1923, and September 7, 1939. In 1923 both France and Belgium invaded Germany.
 
Glitch said:
I completely agree. Let Germany and the rest of the EU go it alone. NATO should have been abolished after the Warsaw Pact fell. NATO has not served a useful purpose in 30 years.
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I'm all for the US getting out of NATO. Maybe then we won't hear that annoying whining noise anymore.
 
ataraxia said:
Germany only became a nation in the second half of the 19th century. From the Franco Prussian war to the end of World War II, how many times did they invade, and how many times were they invaded?

I would be very nervous about leaving them completely unsupervised again and just telling them to be responsible for their own military. They can do that alright. They have had too much of a track record of always taking that too far.
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You think Germany needs supervision? How many times has the US invaded another country since WW2?
 
Lovebug said:
Better not be calling on us when s... hits the fan.
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Fun fact- the only time the NATO mutual defense pact was invoked was when the US was attacked.
How many americans have died because Portugal was attacked?
 
Grand Mal said:
I'm all for the US getting out of NATO. Maybe then we won't hear that annoying whining noise anymore.
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The problem is one of hegemony. By abolishing NATO, which is really just an excuse for a US presence in Europe and beyond, it would make the US appear weak. By keeping NATO alive the US can use it against Russia by incorporating former Warsaw Pact nations, like Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Poland. Ever inching closer towards Moscow.

Meanwhile, the US can use NATO to shape the Slavic nations, like occupying Bosnia, Kosovo and dividing Macedonia into two.

Even though the right thing to do would be for the US to pull out of Europe and allow Europeans to deal with their own problems, I seriously doubt US leadership (Democrat or Republican) has any inclination of reducing the influence the US has in Europe through NATO.
 
calamity said:
Military spending is a scam. Another way for the rich to steal from the poor. Too bad so many people fail to understand that fact.
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Yeah, because none of that money is putting food on the table for ordinary middle class people. All those soldier, sailors, airmen, and engineers working for contractors: Rich!
 
calamity said:
Military spending is a scam. Another way for the rich to steal from the poor. Too bad so many people fail to understand that fact.
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More nonsense from the uninformed. Looks more like troll bait than anything approaching a substantiated statement.
 
I guess Germany wants that precious Russian natural gas line.

 
Glitch said:
The problem is one of hegemony. By abolishing NATO, which is really just an excuse for a US presence in Europe and beyond, it would make the US appear weak. By keeping NATO alive the US can use it against Russia by incorporating former Warsaw Pact nations, like Hungary, the Czech Republic, and Poland. Ever inching closer towards Moscow.

Meanwhile, the US can use NATO to shape the Slavic nations, like occupying Bosnia, Kosovo and dividing Macedonia into two.

Even though the right thing to do would be for the US to pull out of Europe and allow Europeans to deal with their own problems, I seriously doubt US leadership (Democrat or Republican) has any inclination of reducing the influence the US has in Europe through NATO.
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Agreed 100%.
NATO accomplished it's mission when they (and this was mostly an American accomplishment) tricked and lured the Soviet Union into spending itself into oblivion in an 'arms race'.
Vigilance is needed, though, to watch for signs of Russia assembling the buffer between themselves and western Europe that they've always loved.
 
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