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1st woman to lead Army infantry division

Eh, nowadays divisions are strategic formations, not tactical, so the lack of experience in combat isn't really a big deal. Modern day divisions are large and complex organizations, with the ability to manage and coordinate being the most important skill sets to have.

And to be honest, brigade and battalion commanders have a far bigger impact on the performance of the rank and file than Generals do.

"Ah! the Generals! they are numerous, but not good for much!" - Aristophanes

Divisions are a collection of tactical elements, from brigade down to a fire team. Division commanders need to be expert in infantry tactics at every echelon to properly evaluate the troops. It would be bad for morale and discipline if the troops discovered that Division 6 didn't know about their job.

When I was in the 5th ID, the division commander carried a tape measure and blank range cards when he inspected soldiers in the field. The tape measure was for measuring fighting positions and if your range card was ****ed up, he would make you a new one, show you what you did wrong, show you how to do it right and then chew ass from the squad leader up to the company commander. He was real hands on and one-on-one like that.
 
I don't see any combat experience. Would you hire someone to build you a house who had never built a house? Just asking.

I wouldn't care if the general contractor ever has touched a hammer in his or her life. Not in the slightest.

Would you buy a car from a company whose CEO never worked on an assembly line or eat at a restaurant of a company whose CEO was never a fry cook?
 
For my kid in the military and who was in multiple actions in multiple theaters of combat, the opinion is that things would go much better if high ranking officers would just stay away and do their paperwork because they usually don't have a damn clue what they're talking about. Let the combat team do what they do best. Colonels and generals are best at paperwork and bureaucratic protocols.

She has had more than her share of showdowns with colonels. The colonels always lost. Neither her nor anyone on her team is going to die because of a dumbass anal colonel. Among all her duties, included was telling anyone else "no" when it came to missions and the equipment of it. She has that in written orders and protocols. She can not order things to happen, but she can order anything to not happen.

Then again, that is iffy. Another hearing was over her engaging the enemy when specifically ordered not to. She had a clever technical defense ("confusingly worded order") and the reviewing officers had combat experience themselves, so understood her motive. If you see the enemy, clearly the enemy, and can kill the enemy, you kill the enemy. Some officer on the other end of a radio doesn't really know what's happening. Particularly when that enemy had shot at you and your team. Kill them. Simple to understand, no?

On one occasion she was brought up on charges by a colonel equating to mutiny when she ordered her crew not to proceed in defiance of a colonel and then she broke equipment to prevent the mission proceeding when he assembled another crew and team. The end result was the colonel was given the option of retiring honorably or facing court martial himself. The colonel broke many written protocols trying to end run around her and the investigation showed that everyone would have died but for her refusal and actions.

This woman was not promoted to lead banzai infantry charges. Her real job is logistics, protocols, regulations, personnel matters and paperwork.
 
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Eh, nowadays divisions are strategic formations, not tactical, so the lack of experience in combat isn't really a big deal. Modern day divisions are large and complex organizations, with the ability to manage and coordinate being the most important skill sets to have.

And to be honest, brigade and battalion commanders have a far bigger impact on the performance of the rank and file than Generals do.

"Ah! the Generals! they are numerous, but not good for much!" - Aristophanes

That must have been Private Aristophanes.

Private Citizen Aristophanes.

Cause there's no record of Aristophanes having been a soldier or sailor. (And we know he wasn't an airman.)

There's some speculation that in his youth Ari may have participated some in the Peloponnesian War but no one knows either way. Nothing wrong of course with having been a career private citizen. It's how all of us start out and it's how all of us end up. It's the in between that can matter yet in the case of Aristophanes his in between was spent entirely with his quill being mightier than the enemy's sword.

It's anyway the case that the Army and the Marines have refocused on the brigade as the vital combat unit of battle. While a division is half the number of troops it was in WW II, the brigade is just lighter, faster, very deadly in its firepower and inhales far less from support services and units than does a division. BG Yeager in fact commanded a brigade in the 40 ID after she'd commanded a 40 ID battalion which was after she'd been deputy commander of the 40th combat aviation brigade in Iraq.


“Once I had a chance to fly in a helicopter as an ROTC cadet, I was hooked and became obsessed with going to flight school. To this day, the sound of a helicopter is music to my ears and I never get tired of being on one or even seeing one in flight.”

It does make a lasting impression on a cadet that carries over into your active duty service.
 
For my kid in the military and who was in multiple actions in multiple theaters of combat, the opinion is that things would go much better if high ranking officers would just stay away and do their paperwork because they usually don't have a damn clue what they're talking about. Let the combat team do what they do best. Colonels and generals are best at paperwork and bureaucratic protocols.

She has had more than her share of showdowns with colonels. The colonels always lost. Neither her nor anyone on her team is going to die because of a dumbass anal colonel. Among all her duties, included was telling anyone else "no" when it came to missions and the equipment of it. She has that in written orders and protocols. She can not order things to happen, but she can order anything to not happen.

Then again, that is iffy. Another hearing was over her engaging the enemy when specifically ordered not to. She had a clever technical defense ("confusingly worded order") and the reviewing officers had combat experience themselves, so understood her motive. If you see the enemy, clearly the enemy, and can kill the enemy, you kill the enemy. Some officer on the other end of a radio doesn't really know what's happening. Particularly when that enemy had shot at you and your team. Kill them. Simple to understand, no?

On one occasion she was brought up on charges by a colonel equating to mutiny when she ordered her crew not to proceed in defiance of a colonel and then she broke equipment to prevent the mission proceeding when he assembled another crew and team. The end result was the colonel was given the option of retiring honorably or facing court martial himself. The colonel broke many written protocols trying to end run around her and the investigation showed that everyone would have died but for her refusal and actions.

This woman was not promoted to lead banzai infantry charges. Her real job is logistics, protocols, regulations, personnel matters and paperwork.


There are always some orders that are best disobeyed or need to be disobeyed or must be disobeyed. It's legend that a major in Frederick the Great's Army called out a lieutenant after a battle: "The King gave you a commission because he thought you knew when to disobey an order."

Neither is it the case that every order that should be disobeyed is an evil order issued by some vile and repugnant colonel or general. It's often the case they're just a bit too far from the up front and personal fighting to keep the orders coming that address every moment of the back and forth chaos that would be occurring.

In the well known instance of the major and the lieutenant, the major was rather civil and fraternal about it besides. This is in contrast to the hard edged and in your face approach taken by some of those down lower in the ranks. The personal and one sided OTT accounts are those that need anyway to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.
 
That must have been Private Aristophanes.

Private Citizen Aristophanes.

Cause there's no record of Aristophanes having been a soldier or sailor. (And we know he wasn't an airman.)

There's some speculation that in his youth Ari may have participated some in the Peloponnesian War but no one knows either way. Nothing wrong of course with having been a career private citizen. It's how all of us start out and it's how all of us end up. It's the in between that can matter yet in the case of Aristophanes his in between was spent entirely with his quill being mightier than the enemy's sword.

It's anyway the case that the Army and the Marines have refocused on the brigade as the vital combat unit of battle. While a division is half the number of troops it was in WW II, the brigade is just lighter, faster, very deadly in its firepower and inhales far less from support services and units than does a division. BG Yeager in fact commanded a brigade in the 40 ID after she'd commanded a 40 ID battalion which was after she'd been deputy commander of the 40th combat aviation brigade in Iraq.


“Once I had a chance to fly in a helicopter as an ROTC cadet, I was hooked and became obsessed with going to flight school. To this day, the sound of a helicopter is music to my ears and I never get tired of being on one or even seeing one in flight.”

It does make a lasting impression on a cadet that carries over into your active duty service.

Interesting how the Cadet believes private citizens are to be derided for making observations on military matters.... As he weighs in on military matters.
 
There are always some orders that are best disobeyed or need to be disobeyed or must be disobeyed. It's legend that a major in Frederick the Great's Army called out a lieutenant after a battle: "The King gave you a commission because he thought you knew when to disobey an order."

Neither is it the case that every order that should be disobeyed is an evil order issued by some vile and repugnant colonel or general. It's often the case they're just a bit too far from the up front and personal fighting to keep the orders coming that address every moment of the back and forth chaos that would be occurring.

In the well known instance of the major and the lieutenant, the major was rather civil and fraternal about it besides. This is in contrast to the hard edged and in your face approach taken by some of those down lower in the ranks. The personal and one sided OTT accounts are those that need anyway to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt.

In the incident I mentioned, that colonel was likely under enormous pressure from many higher ups demanding constantly updating on missions preparation and probably was being called upon to explain why it was not ready to go - and did not want to have to report it isn't going to happen for reasons he couldn't explain other than one person refuses to sign off, but not giving any clear reason why - Just "something is not right. I haven't figured out what yet" - and not explaining what that means nor any time frame to a solution. That mission was a really big deal involving a great deal of coordination with other units and precise intense planning seizing on an upcoming opportunistic precise moment, probably intelligence based. Either the timetable was precisely meet or it was a bust.

ONLY as an analogy - I stress ONLY, think of the WW2 mission to get Japan's General Yamato when it discovered he was flying at a certain time to another specific location. Either the flight is intercepted on time or not. There is no second bite at the apple.

Everyone and everything is ready to go. This is a big one. Top generals, the Pentagon and more all waiting to see if that mission is successful. But one lower ranking person say no, won't allow it, but also can't say why. To this, all crews refused to go. When the colonel returns with replacement crews, he learns that same person had put water in all the fuel tanks, claiming this was an accident, mixing up the water and fuel hoses. That damn woman again! Why the hell is a woman even in this? This is why women shouldn't be in any combat role!!! That was likely the colonel's perspective.

(Again, all that is ONLY an analogy, not detail accurate to the incident.)

What he couldn't understand is that his role was that of being a reporter to the higher ups, not the facilitator and missions commander. This was clouded by some truly very real problems he had with the first woman ever under his command in any combat role - and a super geek he probably senses saw him as just a stupid annoyance. So his male ego likely got all tangled up it this all on top of that pressure.
 
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That must have been Private Aristophanes.

Private Citizen Aristophanes.

Cause there's no record of Aristophanes having been a soldier or sailor. (And we know he wasn't an airman.)

There's some speculation that in his youth Ari may have participated some in the Peloponnesian War but no one knows either way. Nothing wrong of course with having been a career private citizen. It's how all of us start out and it's how all of us end up. It's the in between that can matter yet in the case of Aristophanes his in between was spent entirely with his quill being mightier than the enemy's sword.

It's anyway the case that the Army and the Marines have refocused on the brigade as the vital combat unit of battle. While a division is half the number of troops it was in WW II, the brigade is just lighter, faster, very deadly in its firepower and inhales far less from support services and units than does a division. BG Yeager in fact commanded a brigade in the 40 ID after she'd commanded a 40 ID battalion which was after she'd been deputy commander of the 40th combat aviation brigade in Iraq.


“Once I had a chance to fly in a helicopter as an ROTC cadet, I was hooked and became obsessed with going to flight school. To this day, the sound of a helicopter is music to my ears and I never get tired of being on one or even seeing one in flight.”

It does make a lasting impression on a cadet that carries over into your active duty service.

Interesting how the Cadet believes private citizens are to be derided for making observations on military matters.... As he weighs in on military matters.

That's just another wrongheaded statement of what I wrote.

So I must address this gross misrepresentation by a chronic character who is long term incontinent.

The norm for me is that I dismiss 95% of what a certain rightwing Sgt. Flash in the Pan posts.
 
That's just another wrongheaded statement of what I wrote.

So I must address this gross misrepresentation by a chronic character who is long term incontinent.

The norm for me is that I dismiss 95% of what a certain rightwing Sgt. Flash in the Pan posts.

Tangmo being Tangmo.

"That must have been Private Aristophanes.

Private Citizen Aristophanes.

Cause there's no record of Aristophanes having been a soldier or sailor. (And we know he wasn't an airman.)"

Why all the typing point it out?

Nevermind. Just more Cadetspeak.
 
Divisions are a collection of tactical elements, from brigade down to a fire team.

Except it's not the General who's directly commanding these tactical elements (And BCTs frankly operate as operational elements a lot), it's their battalion and brigade commander.

And that's frankly the reality of the modern US Army, where battalion and brigade leadership is what really makes or breaks a unit.


Division commanders need to be expert in infantry tactics at every echelon to properly evaluate the troops.

Which doesn't actually require combat experience.
 
*yawn* I really do not care to be honest. A General in most cases today is little more than a glorified babysitter and paper pusher. They put a General who was a pilot in charge of an Infantry Division. Hey, why not? Why not make the Admiral in charge of fleet ops an Admiral who spent their career in supply and finance? Make the Colonel in charge of the 2nd Marine Logistics Group (formerly FSSG) in command of an Amphibious Brigade? So they found a puppet who never really served as Infantry and put her in charge of an Infantry Division primarily made up of National Guard. This is primarily a publicity stunt, and nothing else but. That she is female makes not a damned bit of difference to me, but I think if I was her I might find it just a bit more than a little patronizing.

I wonder if they said the same thing about Eisenhower... :doh

Or Adm Jack Fletcher who until WWII had started never served on, much less commanded a carrier, he managed somehow. (Coral Sea and Midway)

I'd opine she will be no worst than a dozen of so of the bloated star wearers running around the Armed Services.

I figure if you really were her you'd be saying, "about ****ing time, now let's get some **** done"

so tuck your penis back in, the 40th is in good hands, I always had a soft spot in my heart for rotor heads... :peace
 
Except it's not the General who's directly commanding these tactical elements (And BCTs frankly operate as operational elements a lot), it's their battalion and brigade commander.

And that's frankly the reality of the modern US Army, where battalion and brigade leadership is what really makes or breaks a unit.




Which doesn't actually require combat experience.

A division commander is responsible for all the units that remain organic to his division.
 
I wonder if they said the same thing about Eisenhower... :doh

Ike was assigned as an Infantry Officer upon graduation from West Point. He later was transferred to the new Tank Corps in Pennsylvania, and commanded Camp Colt. He was ordered to Europe as the commander of a Tank Battalion, but the war ended before the unit was transferred he remained in the US. He then served at Camp Dix and Camp Benning as the commander of the Tank School.

In 1919 he joined the Motor Transport Corps, and was their official observer in the famous cross-country truck convoy from Washington DC to San Francisco. After that he returned to tanks, where he spent most of the inter-war years. Between which he alternated between such commands as the Executive Officer of the Panama Canal Zone, XO of the 24th Infantry Regiment, General Staff College, War College, and Aide to the Chief of Staff of the Army. XO of the 15th Infantry Regiment, Chief of Staff of the 3rd Infantry Regiment, Chief of Staff to IX Corps, and finally he was the Commander of the Third US Army when the war broke out.

In fact, right before that in August-September 1941 he was the commander of the Blue Army at the Louisiana Maneuvers. A war game that had over 400,000 soldiers participate over an area of several thousand square miles.

Actually, his past experience made him perfectly suited to his position. He had commanded both Infantry and Armored units, from the Platoon to Battalion level. His time with the Transportation Corps left him also well suited to understanding the requirements of logistics. And the many appointments as executive officers and ACOS Aide gave him a lot of experience in working with the Navy.

So if anybody thought that, they were idiots.

Or Adm Jack Fletcher who until WWII had started never served on, much less commanded a carrier, he managed somehow. (Coral Sea and Midway)

You mean Frank Fletcher?

You have to remember, prior to WWII nobody was taking the carrier seriously. Not even the Japanese really took them seriously until about half way through. And prior to the US entering the war, we had a grand total of 8 carriers. Damned few sailors had any experience on carriers at that point, especially somebody who had gotten his commission in 1906, and was already well along his career before they were considered much more than a novelty.

However, he had already commanded a destroyer, cruiser, and battleship before the war broke out. And was the commander of a Cruiser Division in December 1941. And the US Navy shifting it's focus from the Battleship to the Carrier was mostly because we had lost so many Battleships at Pearl Harbor. We had to radically change our strategies because we had no choice. Ultimately, the Japanese might have done us a favor in sinking so many of them, because we were forced to reevaluate our naval tactics.

I'd opine she will be no worst than a dozen of so of the bloated star wearers running around the Armed Services.

I figure if you really were her you'd be saying, "about ****ing time, now let's get some **** done"

so tuck your penis back in, the 40th is in good hands, I always had a soft spot in my heart for rotor heads... :peace

And this is what I find so damned funny. You do not know a thing about me, yet you make some kind of snap decision and then make a comment like the last one.
 
**concluded**

Well, you could not be more wrong. When I deployed to the Middle East, my Battalion Commander was a female. She had served in Air Defense Artillery since she was a 2nd Lieutenant, and served in the Gulf War. She had several deployments as she rose, from Company Commander to staff positions before commanding a Battalion. She was one of the finest commanders I ever served under. And even though I have long since re-classed and hate PATRIOT, I would follow her anywhere. Even if it meant doing launcher drills in MOPP gear again.

And she is also one destined to have stars before she retires. She just recently left as the commander of an entire Air Defense Artillery Brigade, and is now back in a staff position in the Development and Integration Directorate.

I could not give a damn if the person in command is male or female, I guess somehow you missed that little bit. My only issue here is that somebody who never served in Infantry is now commanding an Infantry Division. The Colonel I mentioned served in it her entire career, over 30 years and still counting. And she knew her job and everybody under her. I once watched her and the Battalion XO emplace a launcher in under an hour, then roadmarch it again. Even though it was way below her paygrade, she still knew how to do it. Can this gal take command of a Company if need be then conduct it in defensive operations if her location came under attack?

It is not me confusing her gender with her abilities, I only question her past experience for her current role. If she was assigned as the Commander of an Aviation Division I would not even blink. And by the same token, if my past ADA Commander was given such an assignment I would question her also. Because she had spent her career in Air Defense, not Infantry.

So respectfully take your patronizing attitude and stuff it. :)
 
A division commander is responsible for all the units that remain organic to his division.

Brilliant assessment as always.

Still doesn't change the reality of how units operate these days.
 
Brilliant assessment as always.

Still doesn't change the reality of how units operate these days.

Units operate the same as they have for over 100 years and brigade combat teams have been around for 30 odd years.
 
Units operate the same as they have for over 100 years and brigade combat teams have been around for 30 odd years.

Except not exactly.

Division were, until roughly 40-30 years ago, treated like tactical elements, which is why armies used to have dozens of divisions. The US today only has ten (technically eleven, but the 7th ID is just an HQ essentially) active divisions, but it's more powerful today than ever before. A modern day BCT can tear through a US Army Corps from 1945 because the technical reconnaissance and organic fires it has supersede that of a US Army Corps circa 1945 by leaps and bounds. We have much smaller formations able to inflict equal levels of destruction than older, much larger formations.
 
I wonder if they said the same thing about Eisenhower... :doh

Or Adm Jack Fletcher who until WWII had started never served on, much less commanded a carrier, he managed somehow. (Coral Sea and Midway)

I'd opine she will be no worst than a dozen of so of the bloated star wearers running around the Armed Services.

I figure if you really were her you'd be saying, "about ****ing time, now let's get some **** done"

so tuck your penis back in, the 40th is in good hands, I always had a soft spot in my heart for rotor heads... :peace

That's exactly what they said about Eisenhower.
 
Ike was assigned as an Infantry Officer upon graduation from West Point. He later was transferred to the new Tank Corps in Pennsylvania, and commanded Camp Colt. He was ordered to Europe as the commander of a Tank Battalion, but the war ended before the unit was transferred he remained in the US. He then served at Camp Dix and Camp Benning as the commander of the Tank School.

In 1919 he joined the Motor Transport Corps, and was their official observer in the famous cross-country truck convoy from Washington DC to San Francisco. After that he returned to tanks, where he spent most of the inter-war years. Between which he alternated between such commands as the Executive Officer of the Panama Canal Zone, XO of the 24th Infantry Regiment, General Staff College, War College, and Aide to the Chief of Staff of the Army. XO of the 15th Infantry Regiment, Chief of Staff of the 3rd Infantry Regiment, Chief of Staff to IX Corps, and finally he was the Commander of the Third US Army when the war broke out.

In fact, right before that in August-September 1941 he was the commander of the Blue Army at the Louisiana Maneuvers. A war game that had over 400,000 soldiers participate over an area of several thousand square miles.

Actually, his past experience made him perfectly suited to his position. He had commanded both Infantry and Armored units, from the Platoon to Battalion level. His time with the Transportation Corps left him also well suited to understanding the requirements of logistics. And the many appointments as executive officers and ACOS Aide gave him a lot of experience in working with the Navy.

So if anybody thought that, they were idiots.



You mean Frank Fletcher?

You have to remember, prior to WWII nobody was taking the carrier seriously. Not even the Japanese really took them seriously until about half way through. And prior to the US entering the war, we had a grand total of 8 carriers. Damned few sailors had any experience on carriers at that point, especially somebody who had gotten his commission in 1906, and was already well along his career before they were considered much more than a novelty.

However, he had already commanded a destroyer, cruiser, and battleship before the war broke out. And was the commander of a Cruiser Division in December 1941. And the US Navy shifting it's focus from the Battleship to the Carrier was mostly because we had lost so many Battleships at Pearl Harbor. We had to radically change our strategies because we had no choice. Ultimately, the Japanese might have done us a favor in sinking so many of them, because we were forced to reevaluate our naval tactics.



And this is what I find so damned funny. You do not know a thing about me, yet you make some kind of snap decision and then make a comment like the last one.


I guess you told that guy off eh. Maybe not.

Regardless Ike bless him was never in the 3rd Infantry Regiment which is the unit I was in during my four years of honorable active duty service. 3 IR is at Ft. Myer next to the Pentagon and Arlington National Cemetery. Since 1948 3 IR has been officially "Escort to the President" so Ike knew of us and he knew well, but our magnificent five star and wise CinC was never one of us in the 3 IR The Old Guard of the Army.


Ike had been Chief of Staff (CoS) of the 3rd Infantry Division, from November 1940 to March 1941.

Ike had been Executive Officer (XO) of 24th Infantry Regiment, August 1926 - January 1927.

He'd been XO of the 15th Infantry Regiment, Fort Lewis WA April 1940 - November 1940.

Chief of Staff of the 3rd Army, from June 1941 - December 1941.


Gen. Patton on the other hand was three times assigned to Ft. Meyer to include with horse cavalry, armor and as post commander. Gen. Patton wasn't ever in the 3 IR but he was the kind of regular at Ft. Myer the 3 IR has long since become post WW II. 3 IR which was formed in 1784 distinguished itself in WW II then was reactivated to Ft. Myer.


All the same you deniers over there definitely have a dreadful time with Regiment in contrast to Division. Throw in the number 3 and you guys over there get turned around completely. Every time.

So, once again and after many times already -- really many times already -- my honorable active duty military service was in the 3rd Infantry Regiment. 1 BN (Reinf) Detached, The Old Guard of the Army, Ft. Myer Virginia, which is a part of the Military District of Washington (DC), Joint Force - National Capital Region, all of which are a part of the 5th Army and Northern Command which is a joint service command at Peterson AFB CO. Elements of 5th Army are the troops deployed to the southern border under Potus Trump. Which brings us full circle to the present doesn't it. I'd hope indeed you got it this time but I can slow it down if need be.
 
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I don't see any combat experience. Would you hire someone to build you a house who had never built a house? Just asking.

All combat vets at one time had no combat experience, and combat experience is no guarantee of a successful leader....some show themselves to be complete failures regardless or rank, gender, or experience.
 
Meet Brig. Gen. Laura Yeager, first woman to lead Army infantry division

Brig. Gen. Laura Yeager will assume command of the 40th Infantry Division on June 29 at Joint Forces Training Base in Los Alamitos, California.

D8ZJ9aPVUAE3Z8X.jpg

Brig. Gen. Laura Yeager. (Photo: Joint Task Force North)



Godspeed and all success.

Related: 1st woman to take command of a U.S. Army infantry division

Good for her. I wish her good luck and a supportive staff.
 
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