• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you find Trump's claim.....

Tangmo said:
No general or admiral of 1-4 stars has disobeyed an order. Not to my knowledge anyway.

So whatever you're on about, you're reading the riot act when there isn't any riot. Which is why people are wondering what you're carrying on about. There's nothing there. No there there.

Potus for instance didn't get his Trump Jong Un parade in Washington yet nobody disobeyed orders. All the JCS did was come in with the expense of $80-plus million for it. That was plenty enough to kill the Dear Leader's big parade on the 4th of July. When no one was looking Pentagon did high-fives throughout the building.


Over the past two years I've quoted general after admiral active duty and retired who say Trump is a "danger" to the national security. Most notably is the four star current commander of Strategic Command AF Gen. John Hyten who during Trump's "Fire and Fury" madness said he'd advise CinC Trump there are other alternatives if Trump ordered him to launch any of the nuclear weapons under the general's direct command. That is as close as we've come to a general in command saying publicly he'd tell Trump what to do with his nuclear codes if Trump decided he'd want to put 'em to use. Hyten btw is former commander of AF Space Command who also said we don't need a 6th branch of the armed forces, Trump's star struck US Space Command.


JCS and civilian chiefs at Pentagon succeeded in heading off Trump from his wild eyed ravings to shoot unarmed civilian migrants at the southern border. Although JCS are the principal uniformed advisers to Potus/CinC and the Chairman JCS is their own principal spokesman, the gruesome back and forth between 'em was kept as an internal argument, not a public one. We don't know every leaked detail of the beefing back and forth but I'd bet JCS did not literally disobey any order. I just wouldn't bet the farm on it, that's all.

Neither do we know whether Trump literally did issue a specific written order or simply spoke about it. Either way however, one could argue that Potus/CinC expressing directly what rules of engagement he wanted and not getting them could mean JCS and civilian secretaries, asst secretaries etc may have advised Trump they would not obey any such wish of the CinC; moreover, that they would not issue any such ROE. That may have occurred but we just do not know either way. If it may have occurred, then that would be good on the JCS and the appointed civilian leadership of Pentagon. Unity does have its strength and effectiveness.
Click to expand...

I see you have a reading comprehension problem along with your TDS. Point out where I said anyone disobeyed orders.

By the way, Trump's popularity with the military and veterans is 25 points higher than Obama's was.
 
Logician Man said:
They are potentially debateable if the C-I-C is bat**** crazy, which clearly he is. The illiterate moron keeps claiming his father was born somewhere he wasn't for reasons no one can explain, including himself. C-I-C is 25th A material.
Click to expand...

Just more rabid TDS. It is obvious you have never been in the military and have no clue.

Orders are not debatable. Here is how it works. You are a grunt, humping an M60 in a war zone. In front of you is a ridge with several hundred well entrenched and armed enemy. Some clueless 2nd Lt. orders you to take that ridge. There is no debate, you obey the order. You don't get to say, that is Bats***t crazy, I will get my ass shot off. Your choices are go up that ridge or go to prison. It is known as the "Military Code of Conduct".

You should research it. It will keep you from appearing to be a glue sniffer.
 
Mycroft said:
He's trolling, as usual.

I laugh at the people who fall for his trolls.
Click to expand...

He trolled you about a wall. Many, many times. It still works. He and Sean laugh about it every night during POTUS Pillow Talk.
 
BahamaBob said:
Just more rabid TDS. It is obvious you have never been in the military and have no clue.

Orders are not debatable. Here is how it works. You are a grunt, humping an M60 in a war zone. In front of you is a ridge with several hundred well entrenched and armed enemy. Some clueless 2nd Lt. orders you to take that ridge. There is no debate, you obey the order. You don't get to say, that is Bats***t crazy, I will get my ass shot off. Your choices are go up that ridge or go to prison. It is known as the "Military Code of Conduct".

You should research it. It will keep you from appearing to be a glue sniffer.
Click to expand...

A quick google returned, "Frag the Lt!".
 
Logician Man said:
That he knows more about the U.S. military, and it's affairs, than our top Generals, to be laughable ?. If not, on what basis and personal experience would you agree with Trump's dubious claim ?
Click to expand...

Not too many presidents in my lifetime listened to their generals. One main reason why is any president has to take political situations into account whereas most generals only view the situations from a purely military perspective.

G.H.W. Bush was probably the only president that gave the general free reign when it came to Panama and Iraq, Desert Storm. Presidents have a habit of tying the military's hands due to political or humanitarian issues. Sometimes a president looks like a genus when not listening to his generals and other times like an idiot. At least from my perspective.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
A quick google returned, "Frag the Lt!".
Click to expand...

Crossed my mind a time or two. But that was not my style. I did punch one. It cost me $300. Best $300 I ever spent.
 
BahamaBob said:
Crossed my mind a time or two. But that was not my style. I did punch one. It cost me $300. Best $300 I ever spent.
Click to expand...

Obviously it was a joke on my part. Couldn't leave it out there unsaid, lolz.
 
BahamaBob said:
I see you have a reading comprehension problem along with your TDS. Point out where I said anyone disobeyed orders.
Click to expand...

Your problem then is that you have no point. Everyone knows orders are, well, orders. You're saying something everyone already knows and accepts. So you're wasting time stating the obvious.

What we still don't know is whether Trump's defeated rules of engagement at the southern border -- shoot unarmed civilians -- were issued as orders or as just another Trump lunatic thought. There are orders that Soldiers and Marines at the border defend themselves but those orders are the same obvious orders as your post is obvious about orders being orders. So your posts are less than earth shattering.

I noted in scrolling AF Gen. Hyten told Trump publicly from a security forum in Canada that if Trump ordered the general to launch from the nuclear weapons arsenal the general commands, the general would advise Trump there are other options. This is because we know also that illegal or immoral orders must be rejected, i.e., disobeyed. And reported immediately.





By the way, Trump's popularity with the military and veterans is 25 points higher than Obama's was.
Click to expand...

Support for Trump is fading among active-duty troops, new poll shows


3VOYRDE25BAUZJ36AFEEFS7HJ4.png





22X5DZU3M5HVVFUZA3ILIMELCI.png


Support for Trump is fading among active-duty troops, new poll shows



I'd already noted in scrolling that the AVF in Afghanistan are Republicans in trucks. And that we pulled out of Iraq so we could do it again in Afghanistan. That's Trump's support base in the armed forces.
 
Last edited:
Perotista said:
Not too many presidents in my lifetime listened to their generals. One main reason why is any president has to take political situations into account whereas most generals only view the situations from a purely military perspective.

G.H.W. Bush was probably the only president that gave the general free reign when it came to Panama and Iraq, Desert Storm. Presidents have a habit of tying the military's hands due to political or humanitarian issues. Sometimes a president looks like a genus when not listening to his generals and other times like an idiot. At least from my perspective.
Click to expand...

The post is a cliche'.

Generals and admirals know more about national security and global security than Trump could know in ten lifetimes. Generals and admirals have the hands on experience globally and all of 'em have advanced degrees in it. Unlike Trump, the generals and admirals got an education from their experience in higher ed.

GHW Bush and other presidents have trusted the generals on it. As has also been noted, in Vietnam everyone in Washington was wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom