ISIS is almost defeated

ISIS is almost defeated. You can thank Trump for this, he is the one who stepped up the bombing when he took office.
Of course ISIS, Al Queda....etc will never be completely defeated, they will probably always carry out the odd terrorist attack.
But their stronghold in Syria and Iraq has been virtually wiped out, and thats a good thing:

Read: ISIS’ caliphate reduced to a few tents and cars as final remaining fighters cower behind children to avoid certain death

ISIS is almost defeated and Caitlyn Jenner is almost pregnant. :roll:

No no, I'll cheer Trump's continued efforts to do what needs to be done.
I'll cheer if for no other reason than I sat and watched REPUBLICANS attempting to negate Obama's capture of OBL, claiming, among other things, that he "just happened to be in the Situation Room when the raid went down", if I remember some of the nonsense spewing over Right wing social media.

I'll cheer Trump if for no other reason that it exposes Right wing HYPOCRISY.

It is exceptionally dangerous to claim ISIS is almost defeated just to have a political victory lap, the ideology of hatred and all the motivators for it are very alive and well.

And don't forget this. As of June of last year..

Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 13, 2018

And now, thank goodness, we'll not be hearing from Isis again. Just shows you what a "stable genius" can do when he puts his mind to it.

ISIL may have been territorially defeated but it is still ideologically viable for those new youths who are susceptible to radicalisation and militancy. Furthermore Barghouz and other similar battlefields have been martyr factories and these many martyrs will inspire more angry and disenfranchised youths to join the Islamist death-cult (or variations of it) and to queue up waitng to become more human hamburger in the pursuit of a regressive perversion of Islam and the rejection of most Western values. ISIL and ISIL-like philosophies are much more durable than a temporal caliphate. Bombs and missiles will never defeat the ideologies and attractions of ISIL, al Qaeda and their ilk. Ideas and hatred cannot be bombed out of existence by munitions. They have to be jammed, discredited and made socially unacceptable in the societies where ISIL is strong. Unfortunately neither the West nor the Islamic world have any alternative belief systems to address the alienation, nihilism and anger which burns in those with a predisposition towards radical militancy.

Cheers?
Evilroddy.

Desert Storm said:

ISIS is almost defeated. You can thank Trump for this, he is the one who stepped up the bombing when he took office.
Of course ISIS, Al Queda....etc will never be completely defeated, they will probably always carry out the odd terrorist attack.
But their stronghold in Syria and Iraq has been virtually wiped out, and thats a good thing:

Read: ISIS’ caliphate reduced to a few tents and cars as final remaining fighters cower behind children to avoid certain death

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Well, no. What is defeating ISIS is a simple but very fundamental change in strategy. The previous strategy in Syria had been to bombard a city that ISIS held, push in and drive them out. ISIS fighters would then scatter and flee, or join refugee caravans, melt into refugee settlements, or move to a new city and start over.

The new strategy was to surround the towns held by ISIS, bombard them until they attempted to flee, and then destroy them as they fled. No more perpetual war against the same enemy. If you don't allow them to escape, you don't have to fight them twice.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

No no, I'll cheer Trump's continued efforts to do what needs to be done.
I'll cheer if for no other reason than I sat and watched REPUBLICANS attempting to negate Obama's capture of OBL, claiming, among other things, that he "just happened to be in the Situation Room when the raid went down", if I remember some of the nonsense spewing over Right wing social media.

I'll cheer Trump if for no other reason that it exposes Right wing HYPOCRISY.

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Things like that are always shameful.

Desert Storm said:

ISIS is almost defeated. You can thank Trump for this, he is the one who stepped up the bombing when he took office.
Of course ISIS, Al Queda....etc will never be completely defeated, they will probably always carry out the odd terrorist attack.
But their stronghold in Syria and Iraq has been virtually wiped out, and thats a good thing:

Click to expand...

The problem is that ISIS is almost impossible to really "defeat". They are very decentralized, and operate in almost a cell type fashion, claiming to be working towards the same goal but in reality having very little interaction with each other.

Defeating a group like ISIS is not like defeating Nazi Germany. If anything, it is more like defeating the modern Neo-Nazi movement. There is no one group, and in reality the numbers are much smaller than most people like to admit. But they operate through hit-and-run type tactics at soft targets to seam like they are more effective than they are.

As a good example of this, look no further than one of the "largest" Neo-Nazi movements in the US, Identity Evropa. They are the ones behind the Charlottesville violence, and claim to be part of a "nationwide movement". But in reality, they only have around 800 members.

That's it, just 800 members. BronyCon 2018 (a gathering of fans for My Little Pony) had attendance of just under 5,500 individuals. That means that the one convention had roughly 40 attendants for every individual member of Identity Evropa.

But so long as there is radicalism there will always be ISIS or other such groups. And it must be remembered, that ISIS itself is an off-shoot of Al Qaeda. It was one of many groups that was inspired by that group and self-identified as members even though there was no actual connection (and Bin Laden actually protested against) with the original group. Much like by the latter half of the first decade, "ISIS" has become the modern generic term that groups all over the world have been adopting.

You can't defeat an idea, especially one that you created.

ISIS wouldn't exist if it weren't for historical U.S. interventions, training, and weaponization of the tribal factions.

The sad irony is that the more we bomb their civilizations and people into ashes, the longer the multigenerational hate will last, and the more future radicals will come home to roost.

The mainstream narrative on the origination and continuation of ISIS is rather sickening, considering that we have killed literally millions of people in the Middle East since the early aughts and have levelled more than one civilization. All for geopolitical power and resources that we don't really need. Sad, really.

Oozlefinch said:

The problem is that ISIS is almost impossible to really "defeat". They are very decentralized, and operate in almost a cell type fashion, claiming to be working towards the same goal but in reality having very little interaction with each other.

Defeating a group like ISIS is not like defeating Nazi Germany. If anything, it is more like defeating the modern Neo-Nazi movement. There is no one group, and in reality the numbers are much smaller than most people like to admit. But they operate through hit-and-run type tactics at soft targets to seam like they are more effective than they are.

As a good example of this, look no further than one of the "largest" Neo-Nazi movements in the US, Identity Evropa. They are the ones behind the Charlottesville violence, and claim to be part of a "nationwide movement". But in reality, they only have around 800 members.

That's it, just 800 members. BronyCon 2018 (a gathering of fans for My Little Pony) had attendance of just under 5,500 individuals. That means that the one convention had roughly 40 attendants for every individual member of Identity Evropa.

But so long as there is radicalism there will always be ISIS or other such groups. And it must be remembered, that ISIS itself is an off-shoot of Al Qaeda. It was one of many groups that was inspired by that group and self-identified as members even though there was no actual connection (and Bin Laden actually protested against) with the original group. Much like by the latter half of the first decade, "ISIS" has become the modern generic term that groups all over the world have been adopting.

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Oozlefinch:

5500/800 = 6.875 not 40.

The rest of your post is spot on however.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Evilroddy said:

Oozlefinch:

5500/800 = 6.875 not 40.

The rest of your post is spot on however.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

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I wrote that after having a few adult beverages, and did the math in my head.

But still, it stands. There were more than 6 Bronies at a single convention for every member of IE nation wide.

This is why I largely laugh every time somebody tries to fear us into believing there is some "vast Neo-Nazi movement" in this country. In reality, they are largely a bunch of only barely-literate nutcases that get attention far out of proportion to their actual numbers. I have read their writings, and find them laughable in the extreme. And the funniest thing is that if you hold them to a mirror, you see the exact same thing coming from many on the far-left.

The biggest difference however is that myself and most other Conservatives openly condemn such groups. Yet most Democrats are silent on groups like ANTIFA, such as the SPLC. I for example quickly turned my back on such movements as "Occupy Wall Street" once the vile anti-Semitism became apparent. Yet many still supported it, something which still bothers me greatly. Even our President at the time spoke often that he supported the movement, yet like many completely ignored much of what was behind it.



And ironically, some of the groups that "supported OWS" are such groups and individuals as David Duke, the American Nazi Party, and the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Ironically the exact same groups that many use to bash the current President. Yet for some reason, nobody is going around screaming that OWS was evil because the American Nazi Party endorsed it.

Myself, I eschew from all radical groups, no matter what party they claim to support. I condemn all hate, and do not flip-flop or ignore such groups just because they might support or oppose the same things I do. If I ever had ANTIFA or the ANP claim they supported one of my beliefs, I would start to seriously question that belief.

jmotivator said:

Well, no. What is defeating ISIS is a simple but very fundamental change in strategy. The previous strategy in Syria had been to bombard a city that ISIS held, push in and drive them out. ISIS fighters would then scatter and flee, or join refugee caravans, melt into refugee settlements, or move to a new city and start over.

The new strategy was to surround the towns held by ISIS, bombard them until they attempted to flee, and then destroy them as they fled. No more perpetual war against the same enemy. If you don't allow them to escape, you don't have to fight them twice.

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Killing an enemy ensures that you will never have to fight him again. It also often ensures that you will have to fight his friends, family, and anyone else who takes umbrage at his death.

lwf said:

Killing an enemy ensures that you will never have to fight him again. It also often ensures that you will have to fight his friends, family, and anyone else who takes umbrage at his death.

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Oh yes. That is why we are still fighting Nazis in Germany. And the followers of the Lamp Ornament in Italy. And the believers of the divinity of Emperor Akihito.

The fact is, ISIS has largely been expelled from Iraq, and has been loosing territory in Syria for 2 years. In fact, many now are seeing the removal of ISIS from Iraq as possibly the best thing to help unify the country. Of course, ISIS never had much strength in Iraq. It ruled primarily through fear, not the support of the people.

Oozlefinch said:

Oh yes. That is why we are still fighting Nazis in Germany. And the followers of the Lamp Ornament in Italy. And the believers of the divinity of Emperor Akihito.

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We are not still fighting them, and neither were they all cornered and killed to the last man. Because that is not sound political or military strategy.

lwf said:

We are not still fighting them, and neither were they all cornered and killed to the last man. Because that is not sound political or military strategy.

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But wait. Did you not already tell us that by killing them, we were "ensures that you will have to fight his friends, family, and anyone else who takes umbrage at his death"?

For your statement to be true, that means that we would still be fighting against such groups to this day. Yet we are not.

Funny how that works ya know. Apply a little logic and so many arguments completely break down, like this one.

Oozlefinch said:

But wait. Did you not already tell us that by killing them, we were "ensures that you will have to fight his friends, family, and anyone else who takes umbrage at his death"?

For your statement to be true, that means that we would still be fighting against such groups to this day. Yet we are not.

Funny how that works ya know. Apply a little logic and so many arguments completely break down, like this one.

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I was arguing against killing everyone to the last man. This is why prisoners are taken. This is why we have the Geneva Convention. Treating your enemies humanely is sound military strategy not because you require their cooperation, but because you want to avoid multiplying your foes.

lwf said:

I was arguing against killing everyone to the last man. This is why prisoners are taken. This is why we have the Geneva Convention. Treating your enemies humanely is sound military strategy not because you require their cooperation, but because you want to avoid multiplying your foes.

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About the only time in modern military history we have seen an enemy pretty much "killed to the last man" was in the Pacific War in WWII. And that is simply because most Japanese would rather die than surrender.

Hence, at the Battle of Tarawa where you had over 2,600 soldiers, only 17 survived the battle. And of the 2,200 civilian laborers on the island, all but 129 were killed defending the island. A pattern we saw across the entire Pacific Theater.

Of course, ISIS did not follow any such conventions as Geneva or Hague. That is why they did things like burn pilots alive and broadcast it to the world. And hold mass public executions. Of course, they are also largely gone now.

I've kept my TV in the kitchen on to alert me to the defeat of ISIS in Syria since this afternoon. No news yet.

Maybe they were given a heads up by POTUS who announced a military action? The Commander in Chief seems to be aiding and abetting the enemy by forewarning them.

We will never defeat ISIS, or AQ, or the next flavor of Islamist terrorist while we support the dictators that oppress their current and future recruits. The biggest problem the U.S. has with it's foreign policy is that the American people can't decide if freedom is a good thing or a bad thing. Our record for defending democratic movements is downright shameful. One president wants to advance democratic causes around the world, and the next two don't care, and so everything falls apart. As long as we entertain the concept of 'friendly dictators' the war on terror will not ever end.

lwf said:

Killing an enemy ensures that you will never have to fight him again. It also often ensures that you will have to fight his friends, family, and anyone else who takes umbrage at his death.

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Well, no, history has show that is generally not the case. What persists is ideas, a defeated enemy tends to learn the lesson. But, either way, leaving them alive doesn't win any brownie points, clearly.

Oozlefinch said:

Oh yes. That is why we are still fighting Nazis in Germany. And the followers of the Lamp Ornament in Italy. And the believers of the divinity of Emperor Akihito.

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OMG, I didn't realize! You mean there aren't neo-Nazis, white supremacists, KKK, Proto-fascists, and right wing fanatics left in the world! I'm so relieved! But wait....

I'm confused. Wasn't there just a massacre in New Zealand? What about Dylan Roof? Wasn't there a march in Charlottesville that ended in a murder and assault? Something about tiki-torch bearing gentlemen chanting, "Jews will not replace us!"? Didn't they espouse Nazi ideology? I suppose I could be wrong. Maybe they were just rallying for Trump. I can't always tell the difference.

Oozlefinch said:

Yet most Democrats are silent on groups like ANTIFA, such as the SPLC.

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I can't speak on SPLC however a bit of insight into Democrats and Antifa is in order here.
Antifa sidled up to Dems and liberals early on in the 1990's, but they were largely quiescently parasitic, and loosely affiliated also with the Black Bloc anarchists.

In the last couple of years Antifa has radicalized and has begun to attack Democrats and liberals, and even journalists, and by "journalists" I don't just mean MSM, I mean ANY kind of journalists not their own.
TRUST ME when I tell you that Dems and liberals are not keen on these attacks.
The Antifa are now largely affiliated with CPUSA. "Liberals get the bullet, too" is their new motto.

Oozlefinch said:

I for example quickly turned my back on such movements as "Occupy Wall Street" once the vile anti-Semitism became apparent.

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The Black Bloc anarchists and Antifa groups TOOK OVER Occupy Wall Street, and not by invitation.
Occupy's stupidity was rooted in their insistence on being what they termed "a leaderless movement".
Hello, open invitation to ANYONE who wants to SUBVERT.
This wasn't Evil Occupy, it was "Stupid Leftist" tricks, based on NAIVETE.

You're a very intelligent individual, and I respect almost everything you have to say, even on the occasions where I don't agree with all of it. I HAVE to believe that you are aware of how parasitic groups take cover under nascent protest movements and take advantage of their numbers to distort their own strength.

My God, the Tea Party did much the same thing with the original group that was protesting the Wall Street bailouts.
They might be termed radical but they represented a type of radical change to mainstream GOP back then.

NWRatCon said:

OMG, I didn't realize! You mean there aren't neo-Nazis, white supremacists, KKK, Proto-fascists, and right wing fanatics left in the world! I'm so relieved! But wait....

I'm confused. Wasn't there just a massacre in New Zealand? What about Dylan Roof? Wasn't there a march in Charlottesville that ended in a murder and assault? Something about tiki-torch bearing gentlemen chanting, "Jews will not replace us!"? Didn't they espouse Nazi ideology? I suppose I could be wrong. Maybe they were just rallying for Trump. I can't always tell the difference.

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Well, if you listen to SOME Trump supporters, those Neo-Nazis and KKK are all leftist Democrats, which of course means that they went to the wrong rally back in Charlottesville...I guess.

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Checkerboard Strangler said:

Well, if you listen to SOME Trump supporters, those Neo-Nazis and KKK are all leftist Democrats, which of course means that they went to the wrong rally back in Charlottesville...I guess.

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I'm sure they were fine people.