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Thread: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

  1. #111
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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    I can't say one way or the other. People can imagine a lot of things.
    I'm sure countries on a budget are interested in doing a lot of damage with a small package.
    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity. Be fools for Christ. And have the courage to suffer the contempt of the sophisticated world." - Antonin Scalia

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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I'm sure countries on a budget are interested in doing a lot of damage with a small package.
    You only need to look at North Korea to see that.... but look at what they're doing - they're trying to develop both a warhead and an ICBM... and every step of the process involves extensive study and testing. We can take a pretty good guess at what they're doing, because we can read the patterns of their tests and draw conclusions from them. I just don't see any evidence of the Russians investing anything on doing the testing and research they'd need to accomplish to make this kind of program possible. Have they been experimenting with high-yield nuclear weapons? Not since the 70's. Have they been experimenting with low-yield nuclear weapons along known faultlines to try and establish proof of concept? Not that I'm aware of.

    To be perfectly frank, their rhetoric and what they've "leaked" about this project doesn't match what they're actually doing.

    What it does remind me of is what we did with the USS Halibut in the 1960's and 70's... with the USS Parche from the 70's until the early 2000's.... and the USS Jimmy Carter up to the present day. It's a spy boat. The Parche is reputed to be the most decorated ship in US Naval history. That's no mean feat. It should tell you something about just how useful spy submarines are in practice. I say "reputed" because pretty much all of it's missions are still classified.... but if you want to get a better idea about what exactly these boats do, just research the Halibut... and then look at the Russian plans posted earlier. Tell me you don't see the similarities.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

  3. #113
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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Someone told me once that the Pentagon has people envisioning potential plans for nearly every scenario imaginable regarding the military. I wouldn't be surprised if this were one of them.
    The military has drafted plans to invade practically every piece of dirt imaginable.

    To include friendly nations.
    'All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.'

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  4. #114
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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    As an aside for all you navy guys out there, here's a picture of the Parche's sail at her decommissioning ceremony:

    0868309.jpg

    If you know what the decorations mean, you know that this boat has been through some hard service.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by Fledermaus View Post
    The military has drafted plans to invade practically every piece of dirt imaginable.

    To include friendly nations.
    Of course they have, which is what they should do.

    I see nothing wrong with any nation drafting such plans, and would find it almost criminally negligent if they were not to do so. But there is a huge difference between drafting plans, and trying to implement them.

    Most people tend to forget that most of our plans against Japan in WWII were part of war plans created after WWI. And Japan was our ally in that war.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    The Russian "Poseidon" nuclear-powered torpedo - reputed to carry a 100 megaton to 200 megaton nuclear warhead and meant to erupt underwater for maximum effect - will reportedly deploy aboard the Project 09852 sub Belgorod, which is a converted nuclear-powered cruise-missile sub expected to go on combat duty in 2020.
    And sorry, I am calling "coprolite" on this claim.

    The largest nuclear bomb ever detonated was done by the Soviet Union. The "Tsar Bomb" was a massive 50 megaton device, that weighed in at over 30 tons. The bomb was so massive that the Tu-95 had to have it's bomb bay doors removed in order to carry it.

    And we are supposed to believe something 2-4 times larger is going to be launched on a cruise missile?

    Yea, can see who drinks the Kool-Aid in here.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  7. #117
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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    As an aside for all you navy guys out there, here's a picture of the Parche's sail at her decommissioning ceremony:

    0868309.jpg

    If you know what the decorations mean, you know that this boat has been through some hard service.
    A boat can get the engineering "E" without going through hard service.

    These awards are meant for command excellence and are mostly administrative..........not hard service.

    The engineering "E" and the damage control "E" are the most difficult of all of them.
    Its easier to run for office than to run the office.
    Tip O'Niell

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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    A boat can get the engineering "E" without going through hard service.

    These awards are meant for command excellence and are mostly administrative..........not hard service.

    The engineering "E" and the damage control "E" are the most difficult of all of them.
    You can't really see the ribbon clearly from the pic, but I figure the 9 Presidential Unit Citations would be pretty difficult.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordelier View Post
    You can't really see the ribbon clearly from the pic, but I figure the 9 Presidential Unit Citations would be pretty difficult.
    Her biggest claim to fame is tapping into Soviet communication lines and finding Soviet sub remains.

    Other than that, I could never figure out why the Pentagon laid so much affection on her. I wish they would declassify the missions that her crew went on just to understand the 9 PUC's.

    She had a fairly quiet life compared other subs that were out there in the Atlantic messing with Crazy Ivan on a more routine basis.

    I'm not knocking the boat and the guys that crewed her........ as I am more curious than anything else.
    Its easier to run for office than to run the office.
    Tip O'Niell

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    Re: Russia says it's going to arm a secretive submarine with 6 nuclear 'doomsday' devices

    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredUSN View Post
    Her biggest claim to fame is tapping into Soviet communication lines and finding Soviet sub remains.

    Other than that, I could never figure out why the Pentagon laid so much affection on her. I wish they would declassify the missions that her crew went on just to understand the 9 PUC's.

    She had a fairly quiet life compared other subs that were out there in the Atlantic messing with Crazy Ivan on a more routine basis.

    I'm not knocking the boat and the guys that crewed her........ as I am more curious than anything else.
    You want to know the best way I know to figure out classified information like that? Try putting yourself in the shoes of the Russian Rear Admiral doing contingency planning today.... and some Lt. (JG) on your staff comes up with a crazy off-the-wall plan for a sub mission that you should have the fleet be on guard for. What are the kind of things that would make you go, "Naw, that's impossible"? Because over on the other side of the ocean, I can pretty much guarantee someone else looked at that same idea within the last 20-40 years and thought "How can we make this happen?"

    Nothing is new under the sun... or the surf.
    "He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know." --- Lao Tzu

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