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What do you think of the British Military throughout its history.

perthbum said:
I would look at your own dumb policies in conflicts before knocking the Brits, not the brave soldiers but stupid politicians I must add.
p.s, when did the Germans give the UK an ass beating? think you need to read your history. If you are talking Dunkirk then you need to show some respect for the soldiers of all nations on that day, so you thing the brave men who died at Dunkirk deserved it? as you say well deserved, show respect man.
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So, you are denying British Imperialism, colonization, and brutalities committed upon other countries?

All the while knocking the USA for it's warts?
 
Jredbaron96 said:
The British military has always been one of professionalism and rigor. There's a reason everyone in the world knows it as simply the "Royal Navy".
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Having served for 14 years in the Royal Navy I am free to note some deficiencies. Just two examples: In WWI the Germans 'won' the Battle of Jutland, mainly because their shells always exploded, while the RN's all too often did not. In WWII the Germans nearly always won one-to-one destroyer engagements in the Channel and the North Sea; their gunnery was better.

In my RN - 1952 to 1966 - a trace of the 'we are naturally the best' attitude could still sometimes be glimpsed. Today's RN has been 'rationalised' almost out of existence so its quality is all but irrelevant.

Not for me to comment on the British Army - except to say that they did a pretty good job at Agincourt.
 
WCH said:
They fought to create an empire till they met some determined Americans.
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True enough. Though it is worth noting that those 'Americans' were nearly all transplanted British.
 
WCH said:
You denying Americans weren't right there with you...among others?
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Well, the US was not "right there with the UK" from Sept 1939 to Nov 1941. And even at the latter were in WWII becuase they were attacked by Japan - and had war declared upon them by Germany.
 
Tangmo said:
Post WW II the British political class were ticked at Potus Eisenhower who assumed the firm policy of not supporting British efforts to hold together the remnants of empire. France too was distressed at Ike for not supporting Paris trying to hang on to its Africa colonies.

It came to a head in 1956 with the Suez Crisis. Nasser grabbed the British-French controlled canal by nationalization which was too much in Paris and London. Brits and French knew Eisenhower was strictly hands off so the two worked around him, clandestinely.

Israel, Paris, London devised a scheme, Israel having its own grievances against Egypt. Ten Israeli brigades invaded Egypt and charged toward the canal. London and Paris said they'd have to intervene to keep the sides apart and establish order, to include regain the canal (and try to organize the overthrow of Nasser which never got started in Egypt).

Ike went up the wall. He was furious during a suddenly called press conference in the oval. The Brits at Westminister had already had trouble with chief of general staff Gen. Sir Gerald Templer who hugely disagreed with PM Anthony Eden on the order to invade Egypt together with France. Templer returned to GHQ and said famously, "Gentlemen, I've just come from Number 10 where the prime minister has gone stark raving mad." The attorney general agreed with Templer Eden's order was unlawful. Templer discussed with general staff refusing the order but the generals decided the principle of civilian control was paramount so he and the general staff went ahead with the operation that became a diplomatic fiasco.

After the RAF demolished the Egyptian air force on the ground CIA told Ike Moscow was mobilizing troops to Egypt to reinforce Nasser. So Ike with Canada got the UN to vote that the Brits, French and Israelis cease operations and withdraw, which they did do. Eden went on an extended rest in Jamacia during which he was succeeded as prime minister by Ike's old friend Harold MacMillan. The French government collapsed several months later. Nasser became a hero throughout the ME. Canadian foreign minister and future prime minister Lester Pearson won the Nobel Peace award for his work at the UN. The bottom line was that despite the brilliance of the British led Operation Musketeer the USA became the new sheriff in town.
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Quite a good summary, though it, rather surprisingly, omits my role in the Suez operation in HMS Wizard. Yes folks, I was there. Just call me the last of the British imperialists.
 
General Montgomery in WW2 was a disaster in the European theater. We were expending almost as much manpower and resources bailing him out over and over as fighting the Germans. If we had blown off the Brits all bottle necked up in Northern Europe we would have captured all of Germany and avoided tens to hundreds of thousands of deaths on all sides.
 
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RetiredUSN said:
The British military was great at enslaving other countries while calling it colonization. They were experts at beating and hanging citizens of countries that were defenseless against the empire.

Damn near perfect actually......... right up until WWII.

The Germans gave them a nice wake up call with well deserved ass beating until many countries came in to save them.

Hitler was obviously cruel and inhumane, but the British were not innocent either with the way they treated the countries that were held under colonization. Britain raped many countries of resources, and stomped any resistance at the point of a gun.
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Britain enjoyed victories Germany both in the air, Sea and in the field before anyone came to " save us". If the US had been deployed in 1939 they would have met the same fate fighting blitzkrieg as the world wasn't ready for it/
 
joko104 said:
General Montgomery in WW2 was a disaster in the European theater. We were expending almost as much manpower and resources bailing him out over and over as fighting the Germans. If we had blown off the Brits all bottle necked up in Northern Europe we would have captured all of Germany and avoided tens to hundreds of thousands of deaths on all sides.
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like you did in the Ardennes's...:roll:
 
WCH said:
Considering the conflicts of the previous two centuries, can you blame us?
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The US was an agrarian society until the turn of the 20th century, incapable of such actions. Even your "revolution" was largely French and German soldiery with a few farmers armed with squirrel guns.
 
Sweden said:
Quite a good summary, though it, rather surprisingly, omits my role in the Suez operation in HMS Wizard. Yes folks, I was there. Just call me the last of the British imperialists.
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Congrats on being assigned to Wizard which had quite the record, as you well know. Given your Brit humility I'm pleased to note HMS Wizard was in Tokyo Bay on the signing of the documents of surrender. Your destroyer R72 was part of the RN destroyer squadron attached to Adm. Bull Halsey's 3rd Fleet. Correct me if I'm off because I'd guess by the time you served on her she'd been converted to a fast antisub frigate and redesignated as F72. Yes, Wizard helped clear the way for Brit landing craft during Suez. Protected mine sweepers. Then on to Dartmouth to train naval academy cadets. Did quite a lot in its time it did, to include its predecessor HMS Wizard man o'war ships going back in events and history. Good show.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The US was an agrarian society until the turn of the 20th century, incapable of such actions. Even your "revolution" was largely French and German soldiery with a few farmers armed with squirrel guns.
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Tell that to those who fought in our Civil War.
 
Higgins86 said:
Britain enjoyed victories Germany both in the air, Sea and in the field before anyone came to " save us". If the US had been deployed in 1939 they would have met the same fate fighting blitzkrieg as the world wasn't ready for it/
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You were dead fish if the supply lines stopped working.....period!
 
Higgins86 said:
like you did in the Ardennes's...:roll:
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In war the element of surprise is never really a surprise because it's done all the time. The only surprise comes to the grunt on the front line with a German Tiger tank suddenly in his face where just an hour ago there was nothing. That was the Ardennes.

Montgomery's Operation Market Garden through Holland didn't get far because it never was going to get far. Supreme Commander Eisenhower knew it but he felt he had to give the Brits something via Montgomery's plan to strike directly into the heart of Germany. Market Garden was a bust because it was still to soon to attack into Germany directly. US paratroopers were picked off in their descent by German infantry because allied objectives could not be met. It didn't take the German generals ten minutes to figure out Montgomery's plan and this was before his plan was captured. Operation Disaster is what it was.

Patton was across the Rhine while Montgomery was still upriver laying his smoke screen and ordering up another weather report.
 
Tangmo said:
In war the element of surprise is never really a surprise because it's done all the time. The only surprise comes to the grunt on the front line with a German Tiger tank suddenly in his face where just an hour ago there was nothing. That was the Ardennes.

Montgomery's Operation Market Garden through Holland didn't get far because it never was going to get far. Supreme Commander Eisenhower knew it but he felt he had to give the Brits something via Montgomery's plan to strike directly into the heart of Germany. Market Garden was a bust because it was still to soon to attack into Germany directly. US paratroopers were picked off in their descent by German infantry because allied objectives could not be met. It didn't take the German generals ten minutes to figure out Montgomery's plan and this was before his plan was captured. Operation Disaster is what it was.

Patton was across the Rhine while Montgomery was still upriver laying his smoke screen and ordering up another weather report.
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Faulty intelligence and the malfunctioning radios didn’t help either.
 
Tangmo said:
Congrats on being assigned to Wizard which had quite the record, as you well know. Given your Brit humility I'm pleased to note HMS Wizard was in Tokyo Bay on the signing of the documents of surrender. Your destroyer R72 was part of the RN destroyer squadron attached to Adm. Bull Halsey's 3rd Fleet. Correct me if I'm off because I'd guess by the time you served on her she'd been converted to a fast antisub frigate and redesignated as F72. Yes, Wizard helped clear the way for Brit landing craft during Suez. Protected mine sweepers. Then on to Dartmouth to train naval academy cadets. Did quite a lot in its time it did, to include its predecessor HMS Wizard man o'war ships going back in events and history. Good show.
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All quite correct. After Suez we spent a total of 13 weeks on Cyprus patrol. Another 'last days of Empire' job. Returned from the Med to Chatham in May 1957. That August we visited Karlsham in Sweden for 10 days. (Little did I suspect that one day, like over 50 years later, I would be Swedish.) Soon afterwards I left Wizard, my first ship, of fond memory.
 
perthbum said:
And made them your generals.
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The French learned of Washington during the French and Indian Wars. And so did the Brits who Washington fought with to the rank of colonel. They knew also that Washington had read extensively on Alexander and Hanibal. When the war of Independence began the French knew Washington was the guy. So did the Brits but from the other side of the cannon. You know of course the Brits had Hessian mercenaries fighting for 'em and that the German princes were curious about the upstart commander of the continental army.

The Germanic princes considered Washington a miracle worker yet they knew he had a grand strategy of prolonging the conflict until the Brits threw up their hands. We know that happened at Yorktown years later when Washington overcame Cornwallis' ramparts and the French Fleet basically cut off the British fleet leaving Cornwallis cornered. Grant did the same thing later at Petersburg which made the Reb leaders evacuate Richmond and head for the hills. One reason Cornwallis got busted was that he was convinced he was going to rout a bunch of farmers led by a prince pretender. Corny was so offended in defeat he sent an officer to hand over his sword.

USA has always been underestimated thx again.
 
Higgins86 said:
like you did in the Ardennes's...:roll:
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No comparison whatsoever. In fact, the Battle of the Bulge broke German's Western front completely. But for us diverting supplies, fuel and air support to the Brits we could have rolled into Berlin virtually unopposed - although I suspect Roosevelt had secretly (and stupidly) made a deal with Stalin not to.
 
joko104 said:
General Montgomery in WW2 was a disaster in the European theater. We were expending almost as much manpower and resources bailing him out over and over as fighting the Germans. If we had blown off the Brits all bottle necked up in Northern Europe we would have captured all of Germany and avoided tens to hundreds of thousands of deaths on all sides.
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Ummmmmmmmm

There is just so much wrong with this.
 
Tangmo said:
The French learned of Washington during the French and Indian Wars. And so did the Brits who Washington fought with to the rank of colonel. They knew also that Washington had read extensively on Alexander and Hanibal. When the war of Independence began the French knew Washington was the guy. So did the Brits but from the other side of the cannon. You know of course the Brits had Hessian mercenaries fighting for 'em and that the German princes were curious about the upstart commander of the continental army.

The Germanic princes considered Washington a miracle worker yet they knew he had a grand strategy of prolonging the conflict until the Brits threw up their hands. We know that happened at Yorktown years later when Washington overcame Cornwallis' ramparts and the French Fleet basically cut off the British fleet leaving Cornwallis cornered. Grant did the same thing later at Petersburg which made the Reb leaders evacuate Richmond and head for the hills. One reason Cornwallis got busted was that he was convinced he was going to rout a bunch of farmers led by a prince pretender. Corny was so offended in defeat he sent an officer to hand over his sword.

USA has always been underestimated thx again.
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While some people on the left like to portray the USA's rise in wealth and power to niceness, the real reason was the USA was the most kick-ass, no excuses in life, country in the world. For example, until the US sailing merchant fleet, the British would hoist sails at night - while American merchant ships would be run full sails in gale force winds at night. In commerce, particularly back then, time was money both to investors/merchants and ship owners.

The values of the USA are nothing now like back then. Back then, the price of freedom from government was total self reliance - swim or sink on your own. What there was a lot of suffering, unfairness and brutality in all that, it also force output and production. In addition, unlike now, the government was HUGE on having tariffs to prevent the British and others destroying our merchants and manufacturers with cheap products produced by virtual slave labor in British and other colonies.

Now self pity declarations of demanding money and pity for victimhood status - endless excuses for failure to blame others - is the American way and our doors were opened to dumping astronomical levels of cheap foreign child sweatshop labor products in the USA - obliterating our manufacturing sector.
 
joko104 said:
While some people on the left like to portray the USA's rise in wealth and power to niceness, the real reason was the USA was the most kick-ass, no excuses in life, country in the world. For example, until the US sailing merchant fleet, the British would hoist sails at night - while American merchant ships would be run full sails in gale force winds at night. In commerce, particularly back then, time was money both to investors/merchants and ship owners.

The values of the USA are nothing now like back then. Back then, the price of freedom from government was total self reliance - swim or sink on your own. What there was a lot of suffering, unfairness and brutality in all that, it also force output and production. In addition, unlike now, the government was HUGE on having tariffs to prevent the British and others destroying our merchants and manufacturers with cheap products produced by virtual slave labor in British and other colonies.

Now self pity declarations of demanding money and pity for victimhood status - endless excuses for failure to blame others - is the American way and our doors were opened to dumping astronomical levels of cheap foreign child sweatshop labor products in the USA - obliterating our manufacturing sector.
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Those good ole dayze when you had to chop wood in the ice of January for the fireplace. When down south slaves were bought and sold.

Rugged individuals and rugged individualism.

The ole spare the rod and spoil the child society and civilization.

When the Irish needed not apply.


sigh
 
joko104 said:
No comparison whatsoever. In fact, the Battle of the Bulge broke German's Western front completely. But for us diverting supplies, fuel and air support to the Brits we could have rolled into Berlin virtually unopposed - although I suspect Roosevelt had secretly (and stupidly) made a deal with Stalin not to.
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Uh....no.

Like, not even remotely close to reality.
 
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