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Top US general calls for more troops and warships to counter growing Russian threat

Tangmo said:
I accepted the invitation of the Army to serve in the ceremonial unit of Washington DC. The service included the regular duty of military honors funerals in Arlington National Cemetery which is a privilege to do and a distinct honor.

I welcomed the ceremonial service which is voluntary, has qualifications to be met, and is by mutual agreement. I have always held it fondly as a significant part of my life. Indeed each service has a ceremonial unit in Washington. The ceremonial units of Army and Marines are Infantry MOS. My honorable active duty military service in the MOS 11A was and remains a source to me of great satisfaction and pride.

You left hanging btw your own notation that your MOS is more than engineer sergeant (E-7 in your instance). That is of course the MOS 18C. Given you seemed to have felt slighted I did not give a full picture of your MOS I invited you yourself to provide a full picture of your MOS. I also noted you said your bias puts you fighting wars. So in my next post I said all I wanted from you was for you guys to win one. I asked when you were going to win one cause your MOS goes all the way back to Vietnam.
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The problem is you try and use your military service which you spent, in a ceremonial unit, to pretend you know anything at all about actual war fighting. That would be as silly as me trying to tell you how to march all pretty.

And due to the fact that you obviously looked up what my MOS is you know exactly what more there is to it.

What's really pathetic about your posts is despite the fact that you constantly are insulting the US military you don't have the courage to actually admit that is what you are doing. Man up and stand behind your beliefs. It's an internet forum. You don't need to be so scared.
 
Tangmo said:
I accepted the invitation of the Army to serve in the ceremonial unit of Washington DC. The service included the regular duty of military honors funerals in Arlington National Cemetery which is a privilege to do and a distinct honor.

I welcomed the ceremonial service which is voluntary, has qualifications to be met, and is by mutual agreement. I have always held it fondly as a significant part of my life. Indeed each service has a ceremonial unit in Washington. The ceremonial units of Army and Marines are Infantry MOS. My honorable active duty military service in the MOS 11A was and remains a source to me of great satisfaction and pride.

You left hanging btw your own notation that your MOS is more than engineer sergeant (E-7 in your instance). That is of course the MOS 18C. Given you seemed to have felt slighted I did not give a full picture of your MOS I invited you yourself to provide a full picture of your MOS. I also noted you said your bias puts you fighting wars. So in my next post I said all I wanted from you was for you guys to win one. I asked when you were going to win one cause your MOS goes all the way back to Vietnam.
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Cool story...
 
braindrain said:
The problem is you try and use your military service which you spent, in a ceremonial unit, to pretend you know anything at all about actual war fighting. That would be as silly as me trying to tell you how to march all pretty.

And due to the fact that you obviously looked up what my MOS is you know exactly what more there is to it.

What's really pathetic about your posts is despite the fact that you constantly are insulting the US military you don't have the courage to actually admit that is what you are doing. Man up and stand behind your beliefs. It's an internet forum. You don't need to be so scared.
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Also ironic is how he keeps going on about "winning" and "losing" as a supposed Vietnam vet. A conflict that (rightly or wrongly) has been deemed to be the first (and only) defeat of US Armed forces.
 
I served during the Vietnam Era.

I was not assigned to Vietnam nor did I volunteer. I remain more than satisfied I never had to shoot civilians there. We recall Mai Lai which was representative in many ways of the breadth and length of the war. Army Chief of Staff of the time Gen. H.K. Johnson said in his retirement he should have resigned rather than manage the war two different presidents gave him. So I was fortunate in that I had nothing to do with the war other than to grieve over American soldiers lost to the war in one way or another, to include the ultimate sacrifice. To grieve personally for individuals and more broadly for all the soldiers lost to it. The bottom line remains my honorable active duty military service which was entirely voluntary on my part. My unique service had its own special quality and character of which I remain proud and view fondly.
 
braindrain said:
The problem is you try and use your military service which you spent, in a ceremonial unit, to pretend you know anything at all about actual war fighting. That would be as silly as me trying to tell you how to march all pretty.

And due to the fact that you obviously looked up what my MOS is you know exactly what more there is to it.

What's really pathetic about your posts is despite the fact that you constantly are insulting the US military you don't have the courage to actually admit that is what you are doing. Man up and stand behind your beliefs. It's an internet forum. You don't need to be so scared.
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Your issue sergeant and your problem is that you recognize some honorable active duty military service as honorable while you deny other honorable active duty military service has any honor to it. You substitute your subjective judgement for that of the US Army and the chain of command up to its highest levels. So I demand my due of you. Anything less will continue to cost you as well it must and should.

Neither do I post out of any kind of fear. Anger over a period of time as in years yes, fear no. Most of the time I ignore the lame and pathetic selective recognition of honorable service by some here, while at other times I do get responsive to it as well I should be responsive, must be responsive and I am rightfully responsive.

You sergeant are engaged in Fourth Generation Warfare which is the prolonged and extended fight against insurgents, terrorists and other unconventional fighters. Many Americans fail in their want of a clean, quick in and out victory as 4GW is the opposite of it indeed. So you should value the expertise that knows what your are doing, why and how because your mission needs to be communicated clearly to the American people in their ordinary lives who are uninitiated in what it is you do. Rather and instead, you choose to create divisions within your own ranks. This is a gross mistake and an error of judgement and character. While it is not costly to you it does exact its price from you. So you might want to give some thought anew to the realities of your flawed approach.
 
Tangmo said:
I served during the Vietnam Era.

I was not assigned to Vietnam nor did I volunteer. I remain more than satisfied I never had to shoot civilians there. We recall Mai Lai which was representative in many ways of the breadth and length of the war. Army Chief of Staff of the time Gen. H.K. Johnson said in his retirement he should have resigned rather than manage the war two different presidents gave him. So I was fortunate in that I had nothing to do with the war other than to grieve over American soldiers lost to the war in one way or another, to include the ultimate sacrifice. To grieve personally for individuals and more broadly for all the soldiers lost to it. The bottom line remains my honorable active duty military service which was entirely voluntary on my part. My unique service had its own special quality and character of which I remain proud and view fondly.
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Cool story.
 
Tangmo said:
Your issue sergeant and your problem is that you recognize some honorable active duty military service as honorable while you deny other honorable active duty military service has any honor to it. You substitute your subjective judgement for that of the US Army and the chain of command up to its highest levels. So I demand my due of you. Anything less will continue to cost you as well it must and should.

Neither do I post out of any kind of fear. Anger over a period of time as in years yes, fear no. Most of the time I ignore the lame and pathetic selective recognition of honorable service by some here, while at other times I do get responsive to it as well I should be responsive, must be responsive and I am rightfully responsive.

You sergeant are engaged in Fourth Generation Warfare which is the prolonged and extended fight against insurgents, terrorists and other unconventional fighters. Many Americans fail in their want of a clean, quick in and out victory as 4GW is the opposite of it indeed. So you should value the expertise that knows what your are doing, why and how because your mission needs to be communicated clearly to the American people in their ordinary lives who are uninitiated in what it is you do. Rather and instead, you choose to create divisions within your own ranks. This is a gross mistake and an error of judgement and character. While it is not costly to you it does exact its price from you. So you might want to give some thought anew to the realities of your flawed approach.
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Demand in one hand. **** in the other. See which gets filled first.

One does not demand respect. One earns it.

Only does not demand honor. One displays it.

Your dishonorable posts paint you as a dishonorable person.

Like this gem.

There's an E-7 retired around here who was E-7 for half his career as he coasted to retirement and benefits heaven so I hope you'll take a different course toward your own benefits heaven.

The other guy won't say btw what his mos was for 20 years (and six months). Your mos is engineer sergeant, mine was infantry officer and his was UKN as in unknown (to us). Despite three years now of his unending madness around here he's never said

I bolded the blatant lies and misrepresentations. Tangmo must think floats, operations and deployments are "coasting".

Post after post of dishonorable lies and distortions over the years yet you cry how your service isn't being honored.

Not very honorably done, Tangmo.

Then there is you habit of courageously not responding directly to a poster.

A real officer would not be spineless.
 
Tangmo said:
I served during the Vietnam Era.

I was not assigned to Vietnam nor did I volunteer. I remain more than satisfied I never had to shoot civilians there. We recall Mai Lai which was representative in many ways of the breadth and length of the war. Army Chief of Staff of the time Gen. H.K. Johnson said in his retirement he should have resigned rather than manage the war two different presidents gave him. So I was fortunate in that I had nothing to do with the war other than to grieve over American soldiers lost to the war in one way or another, to include the ultimate sacrifice. To grieve personally for individuals and more broadly for all the soldiers lost to it. The bottom line remains my honorable active duty military service which was entirely voluntary on my part. My unique service had its own special quality and character of which I remain proud and view fondly.
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Trying to weasel out of conflict that (rightly or wrongly) has been deemed to be the first (and only) defeat of US Armed forces.


Not honorable.
 
Tangmo said:
Based on your post thx I make the following changes to my two paragraphs you quote. The first graf below is my original of 'em. The second is my edited paragraph based on your post. You thereby see that reading 'em reveals no change to the fact Army ceremonial guard in Washington DC are Infantry and Marine Corps ceremonial guard in Washington DC are Infantry:

My original post:

The Washington Marine Barracks guard consists of two rifle companies of infantry whose military occupation specialty is 11. That is, the one-one, infantry mos. Only Army and Marines have the infantry mos of 11. Infantry is the backbone of the armed forces. All else in the armed forces are in support of infantry, directly or indirectly.

Infantry officer mos is 11A. Infantry enlisted mos is 11B. The mos 11Z indicates infantry senior sergeant E-8 and E-9. We see lots of 'em in the video to include excerpts of the Marine Corps Drill Platoon and the Marine Corps Band. The video presents representative parts only of musical tunes and performances. All Marine Infantry ceremonial guard members are invited volunteers who qualified for the role and who chose to accept it. Voluntary membership on formal invitation and a mutual aceptance is true of each service ceremonial guard in Washington.


My post edited by me subsequent to your post:

The Washington Marine Barracks guard consists of two rifle companies of infantry. Only Army and Marines have the infantry mos. Infantry is the backbone of the armed forces. All else in the armed forces are in support of infantry, directly or indirectly.

Army Infantry officer mos is 11A. Infantry enlisted mos is 11B. The mos 11Z indicates infantry senior sergeant E-8 and E-9. All Marine Infantry ceremonial guard members are invited volunteers who qualified for the role and who chose to accept it. Voluntary membership on formal invitation and a mutual acceptance is true of each service ceremonial guard in Washington.

Thx again for reminding me about Marine Corps Infantry MOS. I served from 1966 to 1970 inclusively and only and I'd flat out forgot Marine Corps Infantry have a different Infantry MOS designation from that of the Army Infantry MOS which was my MOS. After all a grunt is a grunt is a grunt.


As to the red I chose to spare the reader a lot of technical detail that is both irrelevant and immaterial to my post. My post has one point and one point only which is that Army ceremonial guard in Washington and Marine Corps ceremonial guard in Washington are Infantry. Each of 'em are Infantry and both of 'em are Infantry.

I did take pains to also point out a material fact along the way however, which is that Army Infantry are, well, Army Infantry, whereas Marine Infantry are Naval Infantry. Army Infantry after all belongs to Department of the, well, Army. Marines belong to the Department of the Navy. Hence we have Army Infantry and Marine Corps Naval Infantry. No one really needs to discuss those points any further of course. Not sensibly that is.

(...continued...)
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On the bolded the marines must hate you, they may get a little angry being called soldiers, but when you call them navy or navy infantry instead of marines their blood tends to boil.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Well, for one Russia still uses conscription. Universal service for 12 months for all men 18-27. And because it is only for 1 year that time is "unaccompanied", so there are no families. The soldiers all live in the barracks, their families stay home with their families. The only requirement to support families with things like housing are only for the senior NCOs and Officers.

That is a huge cost difference between in the US, where some E-2 right out of school gets married to a gal with 2 kids, and now the military has to provide housing and health care for the entire family for the next 3+ years. In Russia they pretty much finish their schooling, spend a few months in an actual line unit, then are rotated out to the reserves.

Because there is conscription, really the only "recruiting" they do is to specific branches of service. So somebody may choose to join the Navy (with a 2+ year commitment depending on MOS) instead of serving for a single year in the Army. Or they will join the Army with a 2-4 year commitment if they want to get some specific schooling not available to the 1 year conscripts (which are pretty much all infantry or easy to learn MOS like drivers, cooks, and basic vehicle mechanics). If you want to learn RADAR or computers in the Russian Army, you have to enlist with a 2-4 year contract.

But like it has always been, in Russia unless you are an NCO or Officer all tours are unaccompanied. So if you are married the wife and kids stay home. That is an improvement, since for decades people with families were forbidden from joining the military except in times of emergency. It is one of many ways (in addition to low pay) that they keep their costs low.
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Their army has been moving to a volunteer force, but it has moved very slowly, they are nowhere near the goals they thought they would have.

But even with their conscription they do hold an advantage, even if they are terrible at foreign wars, if it comes down to defending their own, they have a large portion of the population previously trained, making mass conscription possible with minimal training if needed.
 
Tangmo said:
Your issue sergeant and your problem is that you recognize some honorable active duty military service as honorable while you deny other honorable active duty military service has any honor to it. You substitute your subjective judgement for that of the US Army and the chain of command up to its highest levels. So I demand my due of you. Anything less will continue to cost you as well it must and should.

Neither do I post out of any kind of fear. Anger over a period of time as in years yes, fear no. Most of the time I ignore the lame and pathetic selective recognition of honorable service by some here, while at other times I do get responsive to it as well I should be responsive, must be responsive and I am rightfully responsive.

You sergeant are engaged in Fourth Generation Warfare which is the prolonged and extended fight against insurgents, terrorists and other unconventional fighters. Many Americans fail in their want of a clean, quick in and out victory as 4GW is the opposite of it indeed. So you should value the expertise that knows what your are doing, why and how because your mission needs to be communicated clearly to the American people in their ordinary lives who are uninitiated in what it is you do. Rather and instead, you choose to create divisions within your own ranks. This is a gross mistake and an error of judgement and character. While it is not costly to you it does exact its price from you. So you might want to give some thought anew to the realities of your flawed approach.
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I recognize anyone's service as honorable if they served honorable. Be they a cook or mechanic or an infantryman. What I don't recognize is those who only spent time in a ceremonial unit as some kind of expert in anything but pretty marching and how to take part in a ceremony. And you can demand anything you want from me you want but you are not going to get what you seek. And guess what it doesn't cost me anything. Get over yourself.


for someone like you who constantly disrepects the US military and insults those in it to talk about honor and what that means is just ridiculous. Get a clue.

And you can pretend it's not of fear all you want I doubt anyone is buying it. You are constantly insulting the US military but then never have the courage to stand behind your statements.

As to the rest of your tangmobable I personally don't care about your opinion and I doubt many others do either
 
Evilroddy said:
Bolding added by me.

Pounder:

With respect to the bolded point #5, the same thing can be said of tornados or hurricanes or of cancer, all of which stimulate the economy and artificially expand the GDP but are not positive for those on the receiving end. The problem is that the money to fund the arms race has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is debt. Debt costs interest and over time the servicing of the interest on ever-increasing debt becomes so onerous that it crowds out government spending on other vital needs in the economy. Interest rates are still at historical lows but should they rise, servicing the $22-23 trillion dollar debt will become all consuming.

The borrowing and debt paying are also dependant on a stable US dollar. The petro-dollar scheme forged by the Nixon Administration and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in the early 1970's has forced foreign nations which want to buy petroleum products to do so in US dollars. This requirement means that these foreign states must hold large reserves of US dollars, thus artificially increasing the demand and the value of he US dollar. If countries decide to switch away from the petro-dollars and dump their US-dollar currency reserves, then there will be a huge over supply of US dollars and the value of the greenback will dive, contracting the US economy while simultaneously spiking the cost of servicing US debt to astronomical levels. Thus another arms race and the debt it could accumulate is the biggest national security threat to America. When Saddam Hussein began selling Iraqi oil for Euros he met his end. When Gadaffi began selling Libyan oil for Euros and tried to finance an African development fund independent of the US dollar and the Euro he met his end. When Venezuela due to US sanctions threatened to sell oil for non-US currency Juan Guaido popped up and the lights went out.

The US economy is the Achilles Heel of America and its debt is the Trojan arrow which will cripple the global warrior-king if it over-plays its power and alienates too many other nations. That's why manic military spending and militarism must be harnessed and reined in responsibly and with forethought in order to avoid a collapse.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Thanks for the response. You know what? the entire concept of fiscal stimulus is worth an erudite discussion.
You start a new thread and I will attempt to contribute. But I think we will disagree here and there. Game?
 
Oozlefinch said:
Well, for one Russia still uses conscription.
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I did not infer that they were not. If you closely read what I posted in point #3 above, "They like the US Model". I can provide some links that speculate somewhat authoritatively that they are inching toward the US model.

...That is a huge cost difference .
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Which comes back to my point #2. Where are they going to get the bux to accomplish our model?
 
Here's a piece of advice for you Tangmo.... you can take it or leave it as you will. Shakespeare's works contain a multitude of pearls of wisdom, but in my opinion, his most profound line is the following:

"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." As You Like it, Act V, Scene I.

I suggest you get that one etched into silver and put it up on the wall beside you.
 
Tangmo said:
My post has one point and one point only which is that Army ceremonial guard in Washington and Marine Corps ceremonial guard in Washington are Infantry. Each of 'em are Infantry and both of 'em are Infantry.

I did take pains to also point out a material fact along the way however, which is that Army Infantry are, well, Army Infantry, whereas Marine Infantry are Naval Infantry. Army Infantry after all belongs to Department of the, well, Army. Marines belong to the Department of the Navy. Hence we have Army Infantry and Marine Corps Naval Infantry. No one really needs to discuss those points any further of course. Not sensibly that is.
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beerftw said:
On the bolded the marines must hate you, they may get a little angry being called soldiers, but when you call them navy or navy infantry instead of marines their blood tends to boil.
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Marines don't must hate me anything. Not anytime for any reason. (Not Marines plural.)

It's anyway the case that I've never said to a Marine that a Marine is Navy or that a Marine is Naval Infantry. I posted a side comment on the technicalities of it here and to you -- only. And you are a Soldier. Same as I was a Soldier. Well, not quite the same same as in the same Soldier. Which was my closing comment in my post. So it looks like I just found out for the first time that I was wrong about you.
 
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Tangmo said:
Marines don't must hate me anything. Not anytime for any reason. (Not Marines plural.)

It's anyway the case that I've never said to a Marine that a Marine is Navy or that a Marine is Naval Infantry. I posted a side comment on the technicalities of it here and to you -- only. And you are a Soldier. Same as I was a Soldier. Well, not quite the same same as in the same Soldier. Which was my closing comment in my post. So it looks like I just found out for the first time that I was wrong about you.
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Marines hold you in contempt as has been noted on this board time and again. So do sailors, Soldiers and Airmen.

In that way you have unified the services in their disdain for you.
 
braindrain said:
I recognize anyone's service as honorable if they served honorable. Be they a cook or mechanic or an infantryman. What I don't recognize is those who only spent time in a ceremonial unit as some kind of expert in anything but pretty marching and how to take part in a ceremony. And you can demand anything you want from me you want but you are not going to get what you seek. And guess what it doesn't cost me anything. Get over yourself.


for someone like you who constantly disrepects the US military and insults those in it to talk about honor and what that means is just ridiculous. Get a clue.

And you can pretend it's not of fear all you want I doubt anyone is buying it. You are constantly insulting the US military but then never have the courage to stand behind your statements.

As to the rest of your tangmobable I personally don't care about your opinion and I doubt many others do either
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I've noted already that you arbitrarily substitute your personal bias for the demands the US Army and the chain of command place on each service member, to include up to the top of the chain. You are dug into your bias which is completely wrongheaded and at a direct variance from military discipline as stipulated by the UCMJ. Which makes you a menace to unit cohesion, unity, discipline and in turn endangers the success of the mission and unnecessarily places lives at risk. Counseling in your professional role, duties, responsibilities would be appropriate for you sergeant.






Cordelier said:
Here's a piece of advice for you Tangmo.... you can take it or leave it as you will. Shakespeare's works contain a multitude of pearls of wisdom, but in my opinion, his most profound line is the following:

"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." As You Like it, Act V, Scene I.

I suggest you get that one etched into silver and put it up on the wall beside you.
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Thx anyway but my father advised me long ago the best thing to do with advice is to pass it on. Immediately. And with dispatch.

I have pointed out something to you already. It is that you who fashions himself a chess player and sings of Putin as some sort of chess genius misses completely that Putin never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail.

Or have poisoned.

Or shot.

Maybe if you put that up on your wall you could remember it. It might help to overcome your resistance to sound knowledge and situational awareness.
 
Tangmo said:
I've noted already that you arbitrarily substitute your personal bias for the demands the US Army and the chain of command place on each service member, to include up to the top of the chain. You are dug into your bias which is completely wrongheaded and at a direct variance from military discipline as stipulated by the UCMJ. Which makes you a menace to unit cohesion, unity, discipline and in turn endangers the success of the mission and unnecessarily places lives at risk. Counseling in your professional role, duties, responsibilities would be appropriate for you sergeant.
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Tangmobabble.....
 
Tangmo said:
Thx anyway but my father advised me long ago the best thing to do with advice is to pass it on. Immediately. And with dispatch.

I have pointed out something to you already. It is that you who fashions himself a chess player and sings of Putin as some sort of chess genius misses completely that Putin never played chess against anyone he couldn't put in jail.

Or have poisoned.

Or shot.

Maybe if you put that up on your wall you could remember it. It might help to overcome your resistance to sound knowledge and situational awareness.
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As You Like It. :)
 
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