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Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

Tangmo said:
If you're a nail you don't like hammers.
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And if you're a bolt you laugh at... well, we could carry this into absurdity. My point is it's no surprise that an Admiral would see a naval solution for a problem. A top CIA official might offer a different suggestion and a lifetime diplomat another one again. If you take your knee problem to an orthopaedic surgeon he'll offer a different remedy than the holistic physician down the street.
 
Grand Mal said:
American IPhones might well be made in China by Hwuangwei. They're not above producing counterfeits with hijacked technology, what I've heard.
The US imported $505B from China, largely computers, cell phones and clothes. China imported $130B from China, largely commercial aircraft, soybeans and cars. That was 2017- China canceled all soybean imports after Trumps trade war.

"From January 2018 to July 2018, the United States exported a total of $74.3 billion in goods to China. During that same timeframe, the U.S. imported $296.8 billion, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. As a result, the total trade deficit with China is $222.6 billion."

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Yeah, whatever. :roll:
 
Bullseye said:
Yeah, whatever. :roll:
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Yeah, seriously.
In a hypothetical situation where all trade between the US and China ceased, American consumers would suffer more and more immediately than their Chinse counterparts. Your ace in the hole is the billions of bucks that would stop flowing into the Chinese economy but I suspect they'd find back doors into the US for their products and American companies would gratefully accept the contraband. American companies like WalMart being who they are.
 
Grand Mal said:
Yeah, seriously.
In a hypothetical situation where all trade between the US and China ceased, American consumers would suffer more and more immediately than their Chinse counterparts.
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Based on what?


Grand Mal said:
. Your ace in the hole is the billions of bucks that would stop flowing into the Chinese economy but I suspect they'd find back doors into the US for their products and American companies would gratefully accept the contraband. American companies like WalMart being who they are.
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LOL, so your entire thesis is based on stereotypes and personal animosities? Solid reasoning there, GM. :roll:
 
Tangmo said:
Nobody's going to invade Russia these dayze same as nobody is going to invade China these days and certainly no one is going to invade the United States ever. Invasion is indeed Russia's worst nightmare but it is a nightmare of the past, same as for China. India is a pretty secure place too in these respects. Iran not so much.
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Here is a most excellent example of how and why cultures clash. From OUR POV invasion seems cray cray, but when have we been invaded repeatedly to be able to stand in Russian shoes? But what have we been doing in Europe??? Pushing our troops up to the very borders of Russia with NATO type alliances.

How would we scream if our President allowed Russian troops on our Southern Border??? Remember the Movie 'RED DAWN' and the knee jerk reaction many on the 'gun' rubber rabid right had???

Do we take the word of others when they claim they didn't sponsor a terrorist group, wage cyber attacks on our election, promise to abide by human rights agreements???

Exactly why should the Russians just rely on the word of a group that has attacked them throughout history as foreign military forces pile up against their borders???? :peace
 
Rogue Valley said:
Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships
...
Notably in the Black Sea, Mediterranean, and the South China Sea, Adm. Richardson is proposing a policy of muscularity and making the 'first moves' on occasion (unpredictability?)
I would like to see the US Navy become more aggressive and robust in areas. Does Adm. Richardson's way forward have to first have the blessings of the State Dept and Congress?
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The man - and anybody who thinks like him - is nuts ... for wanting to start a war with Russia and China simultaneously.

Is he planning on a CNN career after leaving the military or why is he already full of ****?!?
 
Grand Mal said:
And if you're a bolt you laugh at... well, we could carry this into absurdity. My point is it's no surprise that an Admiral would see a naval solution for a problem. A top CIA official might offer a different suggestion and a lifetime diplomat another one again. If you take your knee problem to an orthopaedic surgeon he'll offer a different remedy than the holistic physician down the street.
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Congratulations because you are carrying it to absurdity.

You sound like a Chinese old guy hunched over and telling a fable or adage that made no sense to his ancestors to begin with and makes even less sense to contemporary generations of Chinese tapping on their Apple.

Beijing has the initiative in the South China Sea and Russia has the initiative in Crimea/Ukraine, the Black Sea and on the ground in the ME. Iran and Syria, China, Russia are partnered in the ME. CCP Boys in Beijing are circling Taiwan while probing against Japan and hovering around South Korea. NK and SK are playing Chinese checkers which impacts Japan directly while Japan and Russia continue to jockey over islands between 'em. Japan has shifted the bulk of its self defense force from the north against Russia to the south against China. Beijing's number one is to separate US allies in the region from the US. Trump dovetails into the strategy exactly and precisely.

As to your post directly Pentagon doctrine is multi-domain integrated warfare which involves the total involvement of the armed forces in any significant engagement land, sea, air. Beijing itself is divided in this. PLA itches for an incident against the US armed forces in their own region while the Party bosses melt into the woodwork at the thought of it. It's the PLA, its PLA Navy and its PLA Air Force that are in need of integrated and multi domain operations, not the USA. PLA is the Party's armed military force, i.e., it is a state armed force in name only as the Party controls all of the China military and those guys haven't seen a day of combat or conflict in their entire career as Party loyalists. Promotions and advancements from colonel and higher cost you and your family an arm and a leg. PLA hasn't fought a major engagement since Vietnam kicked their ass in 1979 right back into China again. In 27 dayze no less.

Bottom line here is that Beijing needs to find out if all their high tech weaponry actually works and Pentagon means to show PLA it doesn't. Likewise for Putin and the Russian general staff. Fact is most of it is psychological warfare by 'em and it's past time to take 'em down on it. Shut 'em up along with their Fanboyz. Trump is on board for numerous reasons some of which he likes, such as take down China which he hates, and some other reasons he doesn't like such as sticking it to Putin. Fact is Trump believes and trusts his generals -- and Admiral Richardson who as CNO is taking the lead in this. Pardon the cliche' but Richardson is the strong silent type. Richardson says little in public so when he does step up to speak people listen. And they listen closely because Adm. Richardson is not an idle man. For Richardson humanitarian missions are fine but the admiral has said daily his mission is to prepare the Navy for one thing and one thing only, which is to win a war.
 
Grand Mal said:
Yeah, seriously.
In a hypothetical situation where all trade between the US and China ceased, American consumers would suffer more and more immediately than their Chinse counterparts. Your ace in the hole is the billions of bucks that would stop flowing into the Chinese economy but I suspect they'd find back doors into the US for their products and American companies would gratefully accept the contraband. American companies like WalMart being who they are.
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In a trade war the debtor nation has the definite advantage over the creditor nation. That is USA vs CCP-PRC. Beijing knows this just as it is known globally by all players. Beijing can't hold up or out against the $USD as the global reserve currency and as the currency of trade. Nobody seriously involved in trade wants the RMB or the Ruble for that matter. Neither currency is viable because each of 'em depends on the $USD in myriad ways. There's no getting away from it.

USG and economy have the resources to mitigate domestic trade war impacts, China and Russia do not. Xi Jinpingpong has wanted to sign the deals presented to him by Trump's trade guy and China hawk Peter Navarro from UC but the Party is far less practical and dogmatic rather than realistic so Xi is tied in a knot he can't undo. Navarro is author of several books on China and to name but one tells his story, Death By China, which is about trade and how the PLA gains from the existing order. Navarro knows his stuff and he means to knock the Boys' economy back 20 years and reinvigorate the USA economy in traditional ways. Navarro was brought into the Trump campaign by Jared Kushner and he's been in solid since. Navarro merits our support because if he can stick to his guns over enough time he'll very likely succeed. It would be game, set, match.
 
notquiteright said:
Here is a most excellent example of how and why cultures clash. From OUR POV invasion seems cray cray, but when have we been invaded repeatedly to be able to stand in Russian shoes? But what have we been doing in Europe??? Pushing our troops up to the very borders of Russia with NATO type alliances.

How would we scream if our President allowed Russian troops on our Southern Border??? Remember the Movie 'RED DAWN' and the knee jerk reaction many on the 'gun' rubber rabid right had???

Do we take the word of others when they claim they didn't sponsor a terrorist group, wage cyber attacks on our election, promise to abide by human rights agreements???

Exactly why should the Russians just rely on the word of a group that has attacked them throughout history as foreign military forces pile up against their borders???? :peace
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You're not going to have a million troops pouring across the Russian borders against St. Petersburg and Moscow. Those dayze are gone and gone forever. The Russian nightmare is real to 'em which is understandable but all the Russians need in the 21st century is a good eight hours of sober sleep.

Neither could any nation of the world be able, i.e., attempt or be allowed, to amass an invasion force on the borders of the USA either north, south, coastal. The 21st century concern is incoming missiles delivering a warhead of one kind or another rather than masses of conquering troops swarming across borders in the early light of a warm dawn. That's bad enough but it's neither Napoleon nor is it Hitler.

The Chinese want Siberia which they wrongfully claim as their own and would invade there but only when they decide the time would be right for 'em, but no further. The Chinese may be crazy about their determination to grab Siberia but they're not fool enough to try to expand on that. Besides given the PLA ground and air forces would overwhelm Russian forces defending Siberia it is well known Moscow would respond with nuclear forces. Beijing will not take that risk.

No one is going to invade Russia to conquer it. Border hassles are common and always contained. No nation is going to try to grab any part of Russia much less all of it. It's only under your bed that Freddie Kruger still exists. Get some sleep instead.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

image.jpg

USS Lassen (DDG 82) patrols the eastern Pacific Ocean.



Notably in the Black Sea, Mediterranean, and the South China Sea, Adm. Richardson is proposing a policy of muscularity and making the 'first moves' on occasion (unpredictability?)

I would like to see the US Navy become more aggressive and robust in areas. Does Adm. Richardson's way forward have to first have the blessings of the State Dept and Congress?
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If the article portrays him properly, he needs to be dismissed.

We don't need t start a new cold war, or war. Our push to get the Ukraine into The EU started the illegal actions i the Ukraine, which lead to heir civil war. China is doing nothing, but protecting themselves fro our unpredictability and our leaders change as often as 4 years. We need to stop thinking we have the right to dictate actions to he rest of the world.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Russia forcefully annexed Crimea, invaded eastern Ukraine, and kidnapped Ukrainian sailors on the high seas.

Russia is the only one that wants a war.
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It's too bad the western media only told one side of the story. In my view, Russia saved the people of Crimea.
 
notquiteright said:
Actually they want border security. I'm no Russian bot, I served in the 3AD back in the E-Vile Empire days. History has taught the Russians they have much to fear from the WEST. Time after time Russia has been invaded by Europeans, not the other way around. Imagine our history if we had been invaded repeatedly, million killed and our capital ravaged??? We gloss over the burning of the capital in 1814 and celebrate Ft. McHenry but Russia lost millions to European invaders.

Now look at the map... where is The Crimea or Ukraine??? A Russian can stand on Russian soil and piss on either. Compare that to our 'wars' which are thousands of miles away but fought for 'national security'.

How happy would we be if China built up a strong military presence in Mexico and her ships routinely called on their ports???

No, like us, the Russians want a buffer- to fight them 'over there so we don't have to fight them here'....

Only problem is Russia, not the USofA has lived that nightmare repeatedly... :peace
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We have militarized Europe. Look what we did when Russia tried to Militarize Cuba.
 
Bullseye said:
Probably not, per se. As long as we're abiding by international law; standing naval order is commanders always have the right to act to defend their commands.
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Maybe., but what yo speak of is to provoke them into action.

Pretty low and unethical.
 
Bullseye said:
I suspect very few, if any, "want war". Being prepared for war is another thing.
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All we need to do to be prepared fort war is undo the damage president Clinton and president Obama did to our military. We shoildn't provoke anyone.
 
Bullseye said:
Based on what?
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Based on the indisputable fact that far more consumer goods come into the US from China than go the other way.



Bullseye said:
LOL, so your entire thesis is based on stereotypes and personal animosities? Solid reasoning there, GM. :roll:
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What stereotypes? What animosities? Do you deny that Chinese goods enter the US through 'back doors'? That's pretty much the basis of Trump's trade war with China.
 
notquiteright said:
Recollections are a funny thing Try reading about the history of the Panama region and our involvement to overthrow a sovereign nation (Columbia) to gain a sweet heart deal on the canal zone.
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Nothing is the matter with my memory. Government coups are not annexations, which Russia has done with Crimea.
 
Barnacle said:
The man - and anybody who thinks like him - is nuts ... for wanting to start a war with Russia and China simultaneously.

Is he planning on a CNN career after leaving the military or why is he already full of ****?!?
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Adm. Richardson isn't talking about war with anyone much less simultaneously.

Richardson is talking about regaining the initiative which is held by Russia and China. Cause them to react to us rather than the other way around as it's been for a decade or more. Restraint and turning the other cheek hasn't worked for the US in virtually anything. Putting Russia and China back on their heels for a change. It's a significant change of post cold war policy that is long overdue. Nobody's going to be bombing anybody. Putin for instance is going to get ulcers over the Azov Sea, Ukraine and his Crimea bridge. Xi is going to lose his pasted smiley face over the South China Sea and so on. US isn't going to be blowing up anyone as it's now up to the other guy to hold his water.
 
Tangmo said:
Adm. Richardson isn't talking about war with anyone much less simultaneously.

Richardson is talking about regaining the initiative which is held by Russia and China. Cause them to react to us rather than the other way around as it's been for a decade or more. Restraint and turning the other cheek hasn't worked for the US in virtually anything. Putting Russia and China back on their heels for a change. It's a significant change of post cold war policy that is long overdue. Nobody's going to be bombing anybody. Putin for instance is going to get ulcers over the Azov Sea, Ukraine and his Crimea bridge. Xi is going to lose his pasted smiley face over the South China Sea and so on. US isn't going to be blowing up anyone as it's now up to the other guy to hold his water.
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You're whistling in the wind my friend.


Geography dictates that the US will never hold the initiative in the Black Sea or South China Sea. The US will always be reactive because it can't project sufficient power to those locales relative to the land based power.


Richardson might try to roar like a lion, but cruel facts of geography mean that he and his war party friends sound like a little lamb when it comes to these regions. Putin and Xi won't be losing any sleep over this fool.
 
Grand Mal said:
Based on the indisputable fact that far more consumer goods come into the US from China than go the other way.
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And . . .?




Grand Mal said:
What stereotypes? What animosities? Do you deny that Chinese goods enter the US through 'back doors'? That's pretty much the basis of Trump's trade war with China.
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LOL, great non-argument.
 
Bullseye said:
And . . .?




LOL, great non-argument.
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It's just a waste of time trying to discuss with you. Your attention span doesn't bridge from one post to the next and I'll be damned if I'm gonna start over every time, quoting previous posts to show you what's been said so far.
 
Lord of Planar said:
All we need to do to be prepared fort war is undo the damage president Clinton and president Obama did to our military. We shoildn't provoke anyone.
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We're NOT "provoking" anybody other than by abiding by international laws for freedom of the seas and skies.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Maybe., but what yo speak of is to provoke them into action.

Pretty low and unethical.
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Nope, not speaking of that at all. Assert our legal rights is not provocation.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Russia forcefully annexed Crimea, invaded eastern Ukraine, and kidnapped Ukrainian sailors on the high seas.

Russia is the only one that wants a war.
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That is a false statement.

Just in the last several years there have been several incidents in which Russian aircraft have been shot down wrongly, and Russia did not escalate or retaliate.

Considering that the western powers are military aggressors in many locations, their actions work against peace. Putin has sought peace and restrained the military response in the process.
 
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