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Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

Nothing is the matter with my memory. Government coups are not annexations, which Russia has done with Crimea.

LOL... we engineered the coup, like the one in Iran, but didn't you study how we got Hawaii??? To try and claim a coup we backed, armed, and supported isn't as 'bad' as annexation is silly... :roll:

We use puppets more than Russia... like Chile in '64. Syria '49, Guatemala '57, Bay of Pigs '61- how many times did we try to assassinate Fidel???

The list is longer, I stopped there, basically we have fomented rebellions and coups in South/Central America since the 'Banana Republics.

Not saying Russia was 'correct' in annexation but am saying they didn't do it to provoke war with the West... :peace
 
And if you're a bolt you laugh at... well, we could carry this into absurdity. My point is it's no surprise that an Admiral would see a naval solution for a problem. A top CIA official might offer a different suggestion and a lifetime diplomat another one again. If you take your knee problem to an orthopaedic surgeon he'll offer a different remedy than the holistic physician down the street.

Grand Mal:

Naval acupuncture using a green-water navy (environmentally friendly ships) and hormone-free, probiotic, free-range missiles? ;)

Richardson wants a 350 ship navy rather than a 260-275 ship navy. Muscularity requires muscle. To do this the US will "have" to build more ships and boats. The Admiral wants to go on a shopping spree on the tax-payer's dime.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
The prospect and consequences of first hitting Russian or Chinese ships are, IMO, nothing the US, in the current geopolitical circumstances, should want or undertake.

The consequence would be all out war, and nato simulations do not put america and nato combined as unbeatable like many people believe, but rather depending on how it rolled out america/nato might even be on the losing end of the conflict vs russia china and india(crap isnt that like half the worlds population or some crap in those 3 countries)

The only way they could strike a ship like that without problems is if it entered us or allied waters, and refused orders to halt. but operating in other waters and striking forst is crazy, china will not simply roll over and the azov sea is joint between russia and ukrain and all foreign militaries operating need both countries blessings to enter through the straight, meaning any us ships trying to enter there as a show of force would immediately be a declaration of war against russia, in which they would resod by mobilizing strategic bombers to wipe out our navy fleet in a suicide run.
 
Grand Mal:

Naval acupuncture using a green-water navy (environmentally friendly ships) and hormone-free, probiotic, free-range missiles? ;)

Richardson wants a 350 ship navy rather than a 260-275 ship navy. Muscularity requires muscle. To do this the US will "have" to build more ships and boats. The Admiral wants to go on a shopping spree on the tax-payer's dime.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

When they say 350 ship navy do they mean 350 combat ships? Because the us navy between combat and support is already bigger than that, as is the russian navy, but that includes tanker ships and support ships.
 
The consequence would be all out war, and nato simulations do not put america and nato combined as unbeatable like many people believe, but rather depending on how it rolled out america/nato might even be on the losing end of the conflict vs russia china and india(crap isnt that like half the worlds population or some crap in those 3 countries)

The only way they could strike a ship like that without problems is if it entered us or allied waters, and refused orders to halt. but operating in other waters and striking forst is crazy, china will not simply roll over and the azov sea is joint between russia and ukrain and all foreign militaries operating need both countries blessings to enter through the straight, meaning any us ships trying to enter there as a show of force would immediately be a declaration of war against russia, in which they would resod by mobilizing strategic bombers to wipe out our navy fleet in a suicide run.
Red:
Yeah, sure, "gaming" that sort of scenario is "well beyond my paygrade." I mean, really. If things come to such an outcome, what am I going to do? I'll tell you. I'm going to do what folks have for millenia done in similar circumstances: gather my belongings and, quite literally, head for the hills, namely my cabin in the WVa mountains. (At 60 years old, I'm certainly not going to enlist. LOL) And then I'll pray I don't get an unexpected visit from a Naval officer.
 
Red:
Yeah, sure, "gaming" that sort of scenario is "well beyond my paygrade." I mean, really. If things come to such an outcome, what am I going to do? I'll tell you. I'm going to do what folks have for millenia done in similar circumstances: gather my belongings and, quite literally, head for the hills, namely my cabin in the WVa mountains. (At 60 years old, I'm certainly not going to enlist. LOL) And then I'll pray I don't get an unexpected visit from a Naval officer.

In such a situation at your age you would not be called to active duty unless you were retired military or held a very desired mos in active duty, in which you would be used to train other soldiers.
 
When they say 350 ship navy do they mean 350 combat ships? Because the us navy between combat and support is already bigger than that, as is the russian navy, but that includes tanker ships and support ships.

Beerftw:

Good question! I'll have to do some homework and get back to you. I think it refers to major combat ships (large patrol vessels or frigates and up) but I am not sure. I'll see if I can find a definitive source to cite.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Beerftw:

Good question! I'll have to do some homework and get back to you. I think it refers to major combat ships (large patrol vessels or frigates and up) but I am not sure. I'll see if I can find a definitive source to cite.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

It would have to because the us navy has 430 ships currently combining support and combat, this does not include the many vessals the coast guard has either for patrolling our sovereign waters.
 
At some point The New Chinese Empire is going to send a man to Washington with this message....."We have decided that you will not enter the areas on this map without our permission. If we should find one or fifteen of your vessels in our area without permission then we will sink all who have defied us".

And we will know that they mean it.

And we will comply.
 
At some point The New Chinese Empire is going to send a man to Washington with this message....."We have decided that you will not enter the areas on this map without our permission. If we should find one or fifteen of your vessels in our area without permission then we will sink all who have defied us".

And we will know that they mean it.

And we will comply.
Only if a Democrat is President.
 
Only if a Democrat is President.

No, but the fact that Washington is completely broken and the fact that the Americans have behaved so incompetently and so reprehensibly over the long haul does factor into this.

The New Chinese Empire has take the decision "**** it, we move now, the West is weak!".

"Strike while the striking is good!"

"We are no fools!"

!
 
At some point The New Chinese Empire is going to send a man to Washington with this message....."We have decided that you will not enter the areas on this map without our permission. If we should find one or fifteen of your vessels in our area without permission then we will sink all who have defied us".

And we will know that they mean it.

And we will comply.

China is not an empire, they have lost horribly to their neighbors in the last few centuries, and even in ww2 still had some soldiers fighting with matchlock rifles the rest of the world ditched centuries before. China has no modern experience with warfare other than the short lived attempt to invade the soviet union in which they lost, their tech is reliant on russia as is their structure, far from an empire.

China could in theory sink any ship or ships near it's waters, it has the defensive capabilities, but to call a country an empire that has in much of it's history been lucky to take a sinkhole that was uncontested is a stretch.
 
China is not an empire, they have lost horribly to their neighbors in the last few centuries, and even in ww2 still had some soldiers fighting with matchlock rifles the rest of the world ditched centuries before. China has no modern experience with warfare other than the short lived attempt to invade the soviet union in which they lost, their tech is reliant on russia as is their structure, far from an empire.

China could in theory sink any ship or ships near it's waters, it has the defensive capabilities, but to call a country an empire that has in much of it's history been lucky to take a sinkhole that was uncontested is a stretch.

You have massively misjudged the situation.
 
You have massively misjudged the situation.

Misjudged not at all, china has very little experience actually fighting wars, their strategy under mao was to send wave after wave of men in suicide squads, to which the soviets would use nuclear weapons knowing they had more men to throw away then the soviets had bullets to spend.

China has tried crushing weaker nations like oppressing tibet or fighting vietnam or attacks on taiwan, but overall they have little experience or even victories. Oh yeah they ended up in one draw against india and one loss, guess they could have their butts handed to them by not just russia but india as well.
 
Red:
Yeah, sure, "gaming" that sort of scenario is "well beyond my paygrade." I mean, really. If things come to such an outcome, what am I going to do? I'll tell you. I'm going to do what folks have for millenia done in similar circumstances: gather my belongings and, quite literally, head for the hills, namely my cabin in the WVa mountains. (At 60 years old, I'm certainly not going to enlist. LOL) And then I'll pray I don't get an unexpected visit from a Naval officer.

In such a situation at your age you would not be called to active duty unless you were retired military or held a very desired mos in active duty, in which you would be used to train other soldiers.
I presume your remarks derive from my having written about the unexpected visit. If so, I wasn't imagining any military branch would call me to active duty.

My skills are as a CPA, economist, business transformation manager, operations strategist, tactician, manager and analyst, professional services sales, and people manager. There's surely plenty in the military to which those skills are applicable; however, I'm sure that in an "all out war" situation, no matter how much more proficient I may be at those things than whoever already does them, the military isn't going to knock on my door. LOL So, no, no MOS, or anything else I possess, is so rarefied that I'd be called to serve.

What was in my mind when I wrote the above post is that one of my sons will complete his NROTC/undergraduate degree soon and be reassigned to combat duty rather than to the additional training that is currently planned for him. The "knock on the door" I'd be praying never comes is the one from officers informing me my son was KIA.
 
Misjudged not at all, china has very little experience actually fighting wars, their strategy under mao was to send wave after wave of men in suicide squads, to which the soviets would use nuclear weapons knowing they had more men to throw away then the soviets had bullets to spend.

China has tried crushing weaker nations like oppressing tibet or fighting vietnam or attacks on taiwan, but overall they have little experience or even victories. Oh yeah they ended up in one draw against india and one loss, guess they could have their butts handed to them by not just russia but india as well.

Ya Ya Ya...I heard for instance Petraeus say a few years back that it will take the Chinese 30 years to figure out how to use this stuff, we dont need to worry before then.

I instantly was shocked to find him so ignorant.
 
No, but the fact that Washington is completely broken and the fact that the Americans have behaved so incompetently and so reprehensibly over the long haul does factor into this.
Huh? WTF are you talking about?

Hawkeye10 said:
The New Chinese Empire has take the decision "**** it, we move now, the West is weak!".

"Strike while the striking is good!"

"We are no fools!"

!
What?
 
Ya Ya Ya...I heard for instance Petraeus say a few years back that it will take the Chinese 30 years to figure out how to use this stuff, we dont need to worry before then.

I instantly was shocked to find him so ignorant.

Well we do need to worry about them, they can send human waves at us, however my point is you are grossly overstating what they are capable of, the chinese are not experienced in modern warfare against a major state power, and no amount of tech or massive number of troops will change that.
 
Well we do need to worry about them, they can send human waves at us, however my point is you are grossly overstating what they are capable of, the chinese are not experienced in modern warfare against a major state power, and no amount of tech or massive number of troops will change that.

Almost dead but not dead yet Soviet Military Brains took care of that problem.
 
You will need to give me more hints on where you lost my train of thought.

Asking questions is a good strategy generally.
I asked several usually proceeded by direct quotes from your post.
 
It would have to because the us navy has 430 ships currently combining support and combat, this does not include the many vessals the coast guard has either for patrolling our sovereign waters.

beerftw:

Scroll down to the 2010-2016 chart to see the counting for the 275 ship navy.

US Ship Force Levels

The 355 ship navy can be seen by googling "355 ship navy plan".

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
You're whistling in the wind my friend.


Geography dictates that the US will never hold the initiative in the Black Sea or South China Sea. The US will always be reactive because it can't project sufficient power to those locales relative to the land based power.


Richardson might try to roar like a lion, but cruel facts of geography mean that he and his war party friends sound like a little lamb when it comes to these regions. Putin and Xi won't be losing any sleep over this fool.

South China Sea is a shooting gallery of Chinese PLA Navy targets to include PLA Air Force. SCS is a Chinese lake and nothing but a lake. Imagine the Chinese fleet on Lake Michigan and you have the Chinese armed forces in the SCS. Or Lake Superior and so on. Your knowledge of military strategic geography is lacking severely. Your competence in geostratigic factors fails completely.

To the Russians the Black Sea is their lake of total vulnerability. Each the SCS and the Black Sea are land enclosed with only narrow passage ways out. The passage way channels and narrow straits out are covered by US and allied forces and closed off. It rankles enemies of the United States to hear it but when we look at the Chinese Navy in the SCS and the Russian fleet in the Black Sea we're looking at ducks on a pond. Yes it drives you guys nuts to hear that about your beloved fleets but it's the cold hard reality.

The PLA Navy south fleet which is its largest (of three fleets) is based at Hainan island in the center north of SCS. Hainan is just another Pacific island off the coast of Asia as far as USN is concerned to include USAF. Boom. Toasted. Likewise concerning each and every Chinese island in the SCS whether natural or artificial. Period. Gone. In a flash. Same for the Russian Black Sea Fleet and its new docking at the bottom of the sea. PLA South Fleet also ends up in the deep south of the sea and at its bottom. SCS is a shallow body of water as seas go so there's little room for submarine warfare whether defensive or offensive. It's all incoming from above to send into the down below each fleet of each country, China and Russia.

Yes each China and Russia would send up its missiles of all kinds but their bases too will receive incoming from US offensive forces in a standoff position in either place, the western Pacific or the Med, the Baltic, the Arctic, the eastern Atlantic as well as continental Europe. Hell the six new Russian Kilo subs Vietnam bought and that have the Klub missile can knock out Hainan island themselves, without US action. The Klub can penetrate the CCP mainland besides as can the swarm of missiles Taiwan manufactures to demolish southeast China industrial and military centers plus hundreds of millions of Chinese in their cities.

The Japan islands and Korean peninsula through Taiwan, the Philippines and Indonesia, Malaysia through the Strait of Malacca are a natural wall that keeps the PLA Navy confined inside it and to the continental shelf. Dead ducks is what they are, PLAN. At the west the northern end of Malacca is covered by India which has a new and huge naval base at the Andaman islands to include a giant new air force base. The Andaman bases cover the strait, the Bay of Bengal and into the land mass of Myanmar and environs where China has small naval bases.

USA and Japan (and Taiwan) have the heavily defended Myiako Strait closed to the PLAN because it is the PLAN only direct route to the western Pacific from the east coast of the mainland. This deals directly with the PLAN Central Fleet and the North Fleet. With Myiako closed the only Plan route to the open western Pacific is north past Korea and Japan and around again south to the open sea. The bottom of it in fact if Plan ever were to make it that far. Myiako itself is just north of Taiwan so any Plan sea maneuver invasion attempt against Taiwan gets stopped there. Plan losses will be significant no matter their offensive capability which remains wanting. The Taiwan Strait is mined and netted so heavily and in so many layers PLA soldiers can step across and present a shooting gallery simultaneously. Plus Taiwan Navy has a swarm of fast boats with missiles and torpedoes.

The only direct access the Plan South Fleet has out of the SCS into the open western Pacific is the Bushi Strait between Taiwan and the Philippines. With Myiako closed and only this route for remnants of the South Fleet to traverse, South Fleet can abandon hope to enter there. South Fleet can indeed try to enter Bushi but it's going to end up down in and under it. Sitting ducks Plan is for all three fleets no matter the number of ships or the A2/AD fires launched from the mainland which itself will be under a severe bombardment and penetration. Game over.
 
The consequence would be all out war, and nato simulations do not put america and nato combined as unbeatable like many people believe, but rather depending on how it rolled out america/nato might even be on the losing end of the conflict vs russia china and india(crap isnt that like half the worlds population or some crap in those 3 countries)

The only way they could strike a ship like that without problems is if it entered us or allied waters, and refused orders to halt. but operating in other waters and striking forst is crazy, china will not simply roll over and the azov sea is joint between russia and ukrain and all foreign militaries operating need both countries blessings to enter through the straight, meaning any us ships trying to enter there as a show of force would immediately be a declaration of war against russia, in which they would resod by mobilizing strategic bombers to wipe out our navy fleet in a suicide run.

That's a wild and crazy post.

Included in the mayhem and self immolation is the repeated claim you make that is wrong, i.e., India would fight with China and Russia against the United States. India will not do that or any such thing. India is a formal strategic military partner of the USA and India is a logistics and storage base for US forces that are forward deployed. Same as Vietnam is a logistics base among other countries that encompass Japan to Australia to India and into the ME. In short your Russian bear tattoo is showing again. All the same I won't show you the tattoo I have of Putin kissing my ass. You're disappointed I know but that's life ain't it.
 
That's a wild and crazy post.

Included in the mayhem and self immolation is the repeated claim you make that is wrong, i.e., India would fight with China and Russia against the United States. India will not do that or any such thing. India is a formal strategic military partner of the USA and India is a logistics and storage base for US forces that are forward deployed. Same as Vietnam is a logistics base among other countries that encompass Japan to Australia to India and into the ME. In short your Russian bear tattoo is showing again. All the same I won't show you the tattoo I have of Putin kissing my ass. You're disappointed I know but that's life ain't it.

Yes and you post ignores that india has formal strategic military partnership with russia as well and russia is their strongest and most trusted ally, while india is still on a status of not trusting the us, especially since the us is allied with pakistan. Beyond that india is bound by a defense pact with china russia and kazahkstan, in which they must come to the aid of others in the pact.

Indias strongest allies are in order russia, then israel, then bhutan, usa is much lower on the list, to the extent india trusts us allies like japan and israel far more than they trust the usa itself.
 
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