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Thread: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

  1. #111
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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Very neat thx much corporal.

    I posted in scrolling who, what, where, when, why and how the Shanghai Cooperation Organization exists, is and does, which makes your final paragraph superfluous.

    I quoted a USAF former F-16 pilot who clearly spoke for all F-16 pilots if not virtually for all of 'em: "The F-16 is the best place to be when you're being shot at."

    It's also excellent to note you've stopped the absurdly OTT claim India will fight with China and Russia against the United States. So maybe now and going forward we get some relief from the equally absurd claim that it would put two-thirds of the world population against the USA in your wacky world war you see coming from over there. While it is a big loss to you of a major bogus talking point it does relieve us of the task of keeping you honest in this particular respect. I'm working now on the rest of 'em which are quite a few.
    No f-16 pilot speaks for all f-16 pilots, and the f-16 mis inferior to the f-15 in nearly every way, this is you again quoting someone you agree with and trying to post it as absolute fact like you do with general miley, all it does is make you look incompetent on the subject since you can only quote an opinion or statement and not debate any facts involving the aircraft, and given how you claim the f-16 is the safest place to be makes me believe you are completely ignorant on aircraft and air warfare as well.

    The sco is very easily googleable, considering you claimed it was just anti terrorism, I severely doubt you even bothered to read any of it and simply made assumptions in your own head that suited what you thought it should mean.

    India would fight with china and russia against the us in their territory, ie russia and china border india, and fights there immedietly affect india, my statement meant india will not send troops to aid russia in a nation like venezuala let's say, as it is not an attack on mainland russia or china nor a direct threat to any of the sco nations, if those threats moved to let's say moscow it becomes a direct threat tp india as well.

    Maybe you should learn to read and research, if you were an officer as you claim I am sure they kept you as far away from command as possible seeing as you go out of your way to understand or comprehend situations and simply repeat claims from people who agree with you without substantiating evidence.
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  2. #112
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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    Maybe you should learn to read and research, if you were an officer as you claim I am sure they kept you as far away from command as possible seeing as you go out of your way to understand or comprehend situations and simply repeat claims from people who agree with you without substantiating evidence.
    Oops, I missed another one.

    The ad hominem. Trying to spread it around in your posts now I see.

    It's getting to be like your own signature card, i.e., you don't leave home without it.
    Last edited by Tangmo; 03-04-19 at 11:39 AM.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    You do know that today india china and russia just signed another agreement militarily right, literally on the fight against terrorism and extremism. To make the matter difficult india and pakistan have been at it since yesterday with two jets shot down, a pakistan j-17 shot down a mig 21 and an indian mig21 shot down an f-16, this puts the us in an awkward situation where it will have to pick and choose one or the other or stay out of conflict entirely.

    Also the contracts with the biggest push being the f-16 likely will not win in india since one just lost in a dogfight to an antique mig 21, meaning if america wanted to sell they weapons they may need to reach for their f-15's and not try and sell the f-16's to them.
    The F-16 was shot down by a R-73 shot (Russian version of the Sidewinder except has thrust vectoring) as the Pakistani pilot made a beeline back to the base. He didnt maneuver at all is my understanding. Which probabley means he didnt even know he was shot at. Antique planes can haul and shoot modern missiles just fine. Pilots of modern planes must have situational awareness or they will be shot down. First thing one does on a missile shot is go 90 degrees to beam and extend out and away then set up the chaff flares and jamming. Secondly start looking for terrain with which to block the target lock, so the missile goes "maddog" and switches to search mode in attempt to re-attain lock. The R-73 missile is no joke they are quite effective against maneuvering targets. The Indian fighter looked to be shot down by an ACM-120 as he turned to RTB, it looks as though he didnt even know it was headed his way.

    F-16 is a good plane but to make use of it requires pilots that are very well trained and practiced. This is pretty much any modern fighter plane though.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Your article is behind a paywall. You have a synopsis?
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  6. #116
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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Your article is behind a paywall. You have a synopsis?
    Harry S Truman to be retired 20 years early and take USN carrier count down from 11 to 10. No explanation.
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  7. #117
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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    The F-16 was shot down by a R-73 shot (Russian version of the Sidewinder except has thrust vectoring) as the Pakistani pilot made a beeline back to the base. He didnt maneuver at all is my understanding. Which probabley means he didnt even know he was shot at. Antique planes can haul and shoot modern missiles just fine. Pilots of modern planes must have situational awareness or they will be shot down. First thing one does on a missile shot is go 90 degrees to beam and extend out and away then set up the chaff flares and jamming. Secondly start looking for terrain with which to block the target lock, so the missile goes "maddog" and switches to search mode in attempt to re-attain lock. The R-73 missile is no joke they are quite effective against maneuvering targets. The Indian fighter looked to be shot down by an ACM-120 as he turned to RTB, it looks as though he didnt even know it was headed his way.

    F-16 is a good plane but to make use of it requires pilots that are very well trained and practiced. This is pretty much any modern fighter plane though.
    Yes the r-73 was used, a fairly modern missile from russia, and they are quite effective/ I will note russian a2a missiles are about as unreliable or more so than american a2a missiles, meaning any pilot with enough range can simply dodge them without even deploying flares.

    I am also aware of pakistans air force, and to be truthful pakistans air force has never really made any meaningful combat kills against anyone except the soviet union, and the soviet pilots were ordered to not engage at all if they were outside afghan borders to prevent a cold war turning hot. India beat pakistan using the gnat, against the sabre, and truthfully if you handed the pakistan airforce a bunch of f-22's and india a single biplane with a 30 cal machine gun, india would probably still find a way to win because pakistans airforce is that bad.

    On the f-16 they are good multirole fighters, in terms of air superiority they are aweful unless it comes down to a turning battle, they lack the range for interception, and lack the payload to carry a meaningful armament with them to the fight, the f-15 covers that role far better. The f-16 is to the russian mig 29 as the su27 is to the f-15, one group is high dollar air superiority fighters, the other cheap multi role fighters.
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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Oops, I missed another one.

    The ad hominem. Trying to spread it around in your posts now I see.

    It's getting to be like your own signature card, i.e., you don't leave home without it.
    That post did not even make sense.
    Proposition 65 warning- my posts are known to the state of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm.

  9. #119
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    Re: Navy chief says the US needs to hit first and get 'muscular' with Russian and Chinese ships

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Harry S Truman to be retired 20 years early and take USN carrier count down from 11 to 10. No explanation.
    I'm dubious about it myself but it's everyone's understanding it's to fund two new carriers in the next decade. Knock off $30 billion by not overhauling the Truman's nuclear plant and 20 more years of the Truman, in favor instead of two new carriers by 2040. Truman had been due for its nuclear plant midlife overhaul from 2024-2028. Upgrade its battle systems etc.

    It's true Pentagon needs to put out new long range drone and other longer range aircraft that can launch off carriers that can stand off and out of the range of China's A2/AD defense systems that are designed to keep carriers too far out from China's mainland to launch its air wing within range.

    News about mothballing the Truman was apparently leaked by high civilian officials at Pentagon who are opposed. Plus Acting SecDef Shanahan is for putting Truman down and is believed to be Trump's guy to nominate as SecDef without the Acting, subject to Senate confirmation. Shanahan is apparently good for Pentagon internal efficiencies but everyone knows he couldn't scare Justin Trudeau much less Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping. WH chief of staff Mulvaney whose permanent position is budget director is apparently for putting down the Truman. All this is supposed to be in the new long range budget being developed for 2020-2024 but not yet completed.

    Congress is already beating the war drums against retiring the Truman. House Seapower Subcommittee of Armed Services is going to haul Shanahan in to grill him. If Trump still goes ahead to nominate Shanahan then Shanahan will apparently have to suit up in battle gear for the Senate Armed Services Committee hearings on it. Budget people tried this with the CVN George Washington in 2014 but they got busted on it so the overhaul was done and retiring it was cancelled. So Trump is trying to do what Obama had tried to do but failed.
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