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US Navy commissions new destroyer Thomas Hudner in Boston

You're way ahead of the other guy and by light years so good on you if I may say so.

As to Iran, they don't have any USMC generals over there. So yes it's interesting but only if Iran has our generals and admirals which they don't have nor will they ever have any. Look at Putin for instance who got LTG Michael Flynn yet all Putin got for that is more sanctions and a briefly useful idiot indicted who had to plead guilty plus sing for his supper.

China has since 2012 put its PLA Blue Force against its Red Force in battle testing against the other. It's all PLA commanders of course. The blue commanders do what the US Army and forces do, at least to the extent PLA generals can do that which is less than stellar. It's not even close but never mind on that and just stay with me here for a moment thanks. The Red Force is the PLA in its usual mode. Blue Force stomps Red Force year after year. Multiple times a year. Red Force hardly wins anything. The Party Central Military Commission stopped firing Red Force commanders cause after a while no PLA generals and colonels wanted to command Red. Instead CMC just equips Red commanders with crying towels, literally in a number of instances.

Last year when Gen. Fang Fenghui chief of the PLA general staff first met James Mattis (in Florida with Trump and Xi) Fang asked the general what kind of army he preferred to fight. Mattis being Mattis said he likes to fight against a big military that trains a lot but hasn't any combat experience. Fang, Xi, Trump and everyone knew Mattis was referring to PLA -- and the entire military over there. Mattis said that "hard training" is no substitute for combat experience and that even the best planning often falls apart early in a conflict under the "chaos of war." (Mattis Marine call signal was CHAOS.) PLA hasn't fought another army since it fell apart in chaos trying to invade Vietnam in 1979. I'd add that I think Mattis was going easy on the China man by not mentioning the fact PLA promotions to colonel and generals' ranks costs a Party officer a Brink's truck haul of RMB.

To be fair to this point though, besides elements of the Air Force (those that have assisted in Iraq, Afghanistan and others places in air strikes) and the Army and Marine Corp, isn’t the issue of lack of combat experience an issue for both sides when it comes to The Navy and the Air Force?

The largest Air-Naval conflict that involved two sides that were even close in terms of capability since WWII was the Falklands, as far as I’m aware the US hasn’t been involved in a large scale Naval or Air engagement since WWII because it’s never had even close to a match.

So wouldn’t it be that neither side really has experience with the kind of large scale Naval-Air engagements that would inevitably result in a conventional war between the two?
 
To be fair to this point though, besides elements of the Air Force (those that have assisted in Iraq, Afghanistan and others places in air strikes) and the Army and Marine Corp, isn’t the issue of lack of combat experience an issue for both sides when it comes to The Navy and the Air Force?

The largest Air-Naval conflict that involved two sides that were even close in terms of capability since WWII was the Falklands, as far as I’m aware the US hasn’t been involved in a large scale Naval or Air engagement since WWII because it’s never had even close to a match.

So wouldn’t it be that neither side really has experience with the kind of large scale Naval-Air engagements that would inevitably result in a conventional war between the two?

USN and USAF can do in the domain of each what US Army (AUS) and USMC did in Desert Storm and then in Iraq in 2003. In fact if the US engaged in a major war against a major power its multi-domain warfare of integrated combat by Army, Navy, Air Force would be awesome.

Iraq is the largest country geographically the US has ever invaded. In Iraq the US operated with troops inexperienced in large scale maneuver warfare. Iraq is bigger than France and it is bigger than Germany; bigger than Mexico (S Vietnam was not an invasion although many would argue the point). In the early 19th century US had some border engagements against Canada but US did not invade our friendly neighbor to the north, as some tag it to be. US hasn't invaded Russia or China nor would the US do so alone, if at all and if ever -- each country deserves special attention of course (the post WW I activity in the Russian civil war was not an invasion).

Iran is more than three times the size of Iraq. While Iran does not have a Tigris and Euphrates Iran does have numerous smaller rivers which would not be an obstacle and Iran has more major urban centers, to mention but two significant elements of entering Iran. US access to Iran exists from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and at the Strait of Hormuz area (Turkey would be dubious politically) which are excellent staging areas also. NK is heavily defended in each respect -- land, air, sea -- and moreover NK and China are the only two countries among those mentioned that has engaged US forces in a war of significance, which is the Korea Conflict in the early 1950s.

There are a multiplicity of factors to consider beyond these of course but this is a summary introduction. Your post #23 btw is consistent with the assessments of the US Naval War College concerning the PLA Navy. The post didn't mention Japan but let's. The PLAN well exceeds the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (Navy) in total tonnage and in number of ships, which aren't the only measures but the two are a good starting point. Naval War College in Newport RI considers the two naval forces as equal at the least -- that's China and Japan. In fact the College evaluates full out naval warfare between the two only by saying it in this way, i.e., if the Japanese Navy had a good day it would defeat PLAN. In other words PLAN has much to worry about against the JMSDF. Why? For one thing China has virtually zero naval history in war -- or at all. PLAN has no culture of fighting; it hasn't any depth of command or of ships crews in fighting in a war. That isn't all of it by any means, but it gives some idea.

In contrast, Japan has a history of naval warfare that is great and extensive. It's officers are well versed in naval warfare and the past experience of it to include a zillion case studies and lessons. Training regularly at sea under extreme conditions is the rule for JMSDF whereas for the PLAN it's a new and limited experience. Japanese naval personnel are better educated going in and once they're in they are better educated and trained than PLA naval personnel. In Japan the sea is an adventure to be experienced whereas Chinese culture going back thousands of years is to fear the oceans out there; Chinese cherish the land while viewing the oceans and seas as forbidden terra incognita. Japanese technology is superior as are its operators; JMSDF commanders have a deep knowledge and analysis of both their own naval warfare and history and in general. There's this and much more and it should be giving the CCP Boyz in Beijing hives over the capabilities of their armed forces against a major power(s).
 
USN and USAF can do in the domain of each what US Army (AUS) and USMC did in Desert Storm and then in Iraq in 2003. In fact if the US engaged in a major war against a major power its multi-domain warfare of integrated combat by Army, Navy, Air Force would be awesome.

Iraq is the largest country geographically the US has ever invaded. In Iraq the US operated with troops inexperienced in large scale maneuver warfare. Iraq is bigger than France and it is bigger than Germany; bigger than Mexico (S Vietnam was not an invasion although many would argue the point). In the early 19th century US had some border engagements against Canada but US did not invade our friendly neighbor to the north, as some tag it to be. US hasn't invaded Russia or China nor would the US do so alone, if at all and if ever -- each country deserves special attention of course (the post WW I activity in the Russian civil war was not an invasion).

Iran is more than three times the size of Iraq. While Iran does not have a Tigris and Euphrates Iran does have numerous smaller rivers which would not be an obstacle and Iran has more major urban centers, to mention but two significant elements of entering Iran. US access to Iran exists from Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and at the Strait of Hormuz area (Turkey would be dubious politically) which are excellent staging areas also. NK is heavily defended in each respect -- land, air, sea -- and moreover NK and China are the only two countries among those mentioned that has engaged US forces in a war of significance, which is the Korea Conflict in the early 1950s.

There are a multiplicity of factors to consider beyond these of course but this is a summary introduction. Your post #23 btw is consistent with the assessments of the US Naval War College concerning the PLA Navy. The post didn't mention Japan but let's. The PLAN well exceeds the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (Navy) in total tonnage and in number of ships, which aren't the only measures but the two are a good starting point. Naval War College in Newport RI considers the two naval forces as equal at the least -- that's China and Japan. In fact the College evaluates full out naval warfare between the two only by saying it in this way, i.e., if the Japanese Navy had a good day it would defeat PLAN. In other words PLAN has much to worry about against the JMSDF. Why? For one thing China has virtually zero naval history in war -- or at all. PLAN has no culture of fighting; it hasn't any depth of command or of ships crews in fighting in a war. That isn't all of it by any means, but it gives some idea.

In contrast, Japan has a history of naval warfare that is great and extensive. It's officers are well versed in naval warfare and the past experience of it to include a zillion case studies and lessons. Training regularly at sea under extreme conditions is the rule for JMSDF whereas for the PLAN it's a new and limited experience. Japanese naval personnel are better educated going in and once they're in they are better educated and trained than PLA naval personnel. In Japan the sea is an adventure to be experienced whereas Chinese culture going back thousands of years is to fear the oceans out there; Chinese cherish the land while viewing the oceans and seas as forbidden terra incognita. Japanese technology is superior as are its operators; JMSDF commanders have a deep knowledge and analysis of both their own naval warfare and history and in general. There's this and much more and it should be giving the CCP Boyz in Beijing hives over the capabilities of their armed forces against a major power(s).

Damn Boi.

You know some ****.

Found this video pretty interesting by the way if you've never seen this guy, gives a pretty good breakdown of assets, how they may be utilized and different scenarios on this particular subject since you brought up China and Japan.

 
Iraq is the largest country geographically the US has ever invaded.

Afghanistan is larger. One can, I suppose, quibble over the word "invaded".
 
Damn Boi.

You know some ****.

Found this video pretty interesting by the way if you've never seen this guy, gives a pretty good breakdown of assets, how they may be utilized and different scenarios on this particular subject since you brought up China and Japan.



I watched half of your video mostly because I'd never seen the Russian imposter or real Russian producers of it. The profound problem is however that US is not going to depart Japan. The video presumes the US military gone from Japan. I didn't catch the video saying anything about other US forces in the region even if the US were to pull its military out of Japan itself, for whatever reason or at the insistence of whomever in Washington or Japan. The likelihood of US departing Japan and SK are zero. Trump's can't do it. Won't be able to do it due to the absolute position of Pentagon that US remain engaged in every respect with and in Japan and SK. US Naval War College makes the assessment and evaluation I discussed above based on USA support of Japan in any engagement against China, focusing on naval engagement(s).

The video does bring attention and focus on the present and ongoing strategy of the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing. Which is to separate USA from its allies in the region. I'm confident John Kelly is providing Trump with top rate advice to stop talking about withdrawing US troops from SK. And never to say anything about pulling US troops out of Japan, which Trump hasn't said anything about. And never to think about saying it. Trump is in a deep enough hole with Pentagon by his screwing over Nato allies and EU countries without talking about eliminating the US presence in the western Pacific, East Asia, and over to the Indian Ocean. It is encouraging to the good guyz that Trump had little enough say in the US new ambassador to SK, the just retired Admiral Harry Harris who at Pearl Harbor was commander of all US forces from California to India. Harris doesn't trust the CCP Boyz in Beijing any farther than they can spit.
 
I watched half of your video mostly because I'd never seen the Russian imposter or real Russian producers of it. The profound problem is however that US is not going to depart Japan. The video presumes the US military gone from Japan. I didn't catch the video saying anything about other US forces in the region even if the US were to pull its military out of Japan itself, for whatever reason or at the insistence of whomever in Washington or Japan. The likelihood of US departing Japan and SK are zero. Trump's can't do it. Won't be able to do it due to the absolute position of Pentagon that US remain engaged in every respect with and in Japan and SK. US Naval War College makes the assessment and evaluation I discussed above based on USA support of Japan in any engagement against China, focusing on naval engagement(s).

The video does bring attention and focus on the present and ongoing strategy of the CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing. Which is to separate USA from its allies in the region. I'm confident John Kelly is providing Trump with top rate advice to stop talking about withdrawing US troops from SK. And never to say anything about pulling US troops out of Japan, which Trump hasn't said anything about. And never to think about saying it. Trump is in a deep enough hole with Pentagon by his screwing over Nato allies and EU countries without talking about eliminating the US presence in the western Pacific, East Asia, and over to the Indian Ocean. It is encouraging to the good guyz that Trump had little enough say in the US new ambassador to SK, the just retired Admiral Harry Harris who at Pearl Harbor was commander of all US forces from California to India. Harris doesn't trust the CCP Boyz in Beijing any farther than they can spit.

For sure, I think it's just a thought experiment, just a hypothetical.

He does a whole bunch of them which are pretty good.
 
Afghanistan is larger. One can, I suppose, quibble over the word "invaded".

Indeed thx for the comment and the caveat as I'd overlooked addressing it.

In Iraq US had a civilian governor to run the government with Iraqi advisors. In Afghanistan the US installed a civilian government of Afghans to rule over it.

In Iraq the mission went after the leader, his government, political party, military and so on. In Afghanistan the mission was to eliminate the base of terrorists determined to destroy the United States. Still is.
 
Why did Hudner make zero effort to get permission from his chain of command to destroy his plane to get to a guy something less than 30 minutes before the professionals got there....without wrecking anything I might add?

Likely because he would have been told no and he knew that damn well.

This can not be encouraged.
Would YOU like to spend thirty minutes in a burning airplane? Who you like to do that someone else?
 
Would YOU like to spend thirty minutes in a burning airplane? Who you like to do that someone else?

I have exited this thread...I have figured out what happened, it is all victim culture BS, and thinking out this yields nothing but the stomping on my spirit.

No Thanks.

:bon_voyag
 
If I am not properly informed here then it is my government who did the failing. The citation does not justify this award, if there was good justification then it needed to be included in the citation .

https://www.pbs.org/weta/americanvalor/stories/hudner.html

I am certainly wondering if this was about race, or maybe we should say about military social engineering programs, but that would not make me making it about race as I had nothing to do with what happened. The citation by mentioning race did make this about race at least some, the question is was this about anything else...
You know this happened in 1950, right? And the medal was awarded in 1951. I'm pretty sure "social engineering" wasn't a big issue back then.
 
I have exited this thread...I have figured out what happened, it is all victim culture BS, and thinking out this yields nothing but the stomping on my spirit.

No Thanks.

:bon_voyag
Appropriately a cowardly critic of an American Hero, turns tail and runs. :cool:
 
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