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Military-building strategy

F

FreeWits

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With the US deficit and debt, we are becoming a weaker country. We have to solve the problem. One place to cut funding is the military. I personally think that we can cut funding by eliminating many bases around the world, and basically strategically hold bases so we can still have a presence around the world. I also would like to cut mass production of many of our airplanes, tanks, etc. and rely more on research projects. My strategy would allow us to cut funding, maintain research and development, and maintain a presence around the world. What do you guys think about this strategy?
 
FreeWits said:
With the US deficit and debt, we are becoming a weaker country. We have to solve the problem. One place to cut funding is the military. I personally think that we can cut funding by eliminating many bases around the world, and basically strategically hold bases so we can still have a presence around the world. I also would like to cut mass production of many of our airplanes, tanks, etc. and rely more on research projects. My strategy would allow us to cut funding, maintain research and development, and maintain a presence around the world. What do you guys think about this strategy?
Click to expand...

If the world is safe from tyranny and totalitarianism then why do any countries even have a military?
 
FreeWits said:
With the US deficit and debt, we are becoming a weaker country. We have to solve the problem. One place to cut funding is the military. I personally think that we can cut funding by eliminating many bases around the world, and basically strategically hold bases so we can still have a presence around the world. I also would like to cut mass production of many of our airplanes, tanks, etc. and rely more on research projects. My strategy would allow us to cut funding, maintain research and development, and maintain a presence around the world. What do you guys think about this strategy?
Click to expand...

We pretty much need to wait till China is ready to take over.

Dont worry, it likely wont be long.

:2wave:
 
marke said:
If the world is safe from tyranny and totalitarianism then why do any countries even have a military?
Click to expand...

The world is not safe from tyranny and/or totalitarianism.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
We pretty much need to wait till China is ready to take over.

Dont worry, it likely wont be long.

:2wave:
Click to expand...

Do you think China is more likely to attack us militarily or economically?
 
FreeWits said:
Do you think China is more likely to attack us militarily or economically?
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China believes in having a large toolbox and then using what ever tool they figure is right for the job, unlike us who tend to figure that the hammer is always the right one....the bigger the better.

Which is to say IDK, nobody knows how Americans continued decline and The New Chinese Empires continued assent will intersect, China's tactics are not that predictable.
 
FreeWits said:
I didn't say eliminate the military. Can we get to a higher level conversation here?
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People disagree over the level of military preparedness. There isn't enough money in the world to enable nations of the world to provide adequate militaries. The US is like the rich mansion (nation) on a hill surrounded by slum dwellers (poor nations) on every side below. We must remain vigilant and prepared.
 
FreeWits said:
With the US deficit and debt, we are becoming a weaker country. We have to solve the problem. One place to cut funding is the military. I personally think that we can cut funding by eliminating many bases around the world, and basically strategically hold bases so we can still have a presence around the world. I also would like to cut mass production of many of our airplanes, tanks, etc. and rely more on research projects. My strategy would allow us to cut funding, maintain research and development, and maintain a presence around the world. What do you guys think about this strategy?
Click to expand...

FreeWits said:
The world is not safe from tyranny and/or totalitarianism.
Click to expand...

marke said:
Hence, the military.
Click to expand...

We need to get something very straight, our military power has nothing to do with keeping the world safe from tyranny and/or totalitarianism. If that were true at all we would not be friends and allied to half the nations that we are.

Our military power is about influence and position.

When it comes to our deficits and debt, that is exclusively because politics demands spending beyond means. It is not about military spending alone, or social safety net spending alone, or any one area. It is all of it because the nature of obtaining votes is all about the promise of less taxation, more spending, or some terrible combination of the two. Total Debt goes up all the time.

The OP strategy is bumper sticker thinking, it excludes so much of why we ended up where we are.
 
marke said:
People disagree over the level of military preparedness. There isn't enough money in the world to enable nations of the world to provide adequate militaries. The US is like the rich mansion (nation) on a hill surrounded by slum dwellers (poor nations) on every side below. We must remain vigilant and prepared.
Click to expand...

I agree, and I think my plan is the best for remaining prepared. It focuses on progress while maintaining a global reach to help fight natural disasters, react to any conflict necessary, etc. How prepared will the military remain if we don't solve the economics of our situation? How prepared will our military be if our debt:GDP raises to 400% like China's is?
 
OrphanSlug said:
We need to get something very straight, our military power has nothing to do with keeping the world safe from tyranny and/or totalitarianism. If that were true at all we would not be friends and allied to half the nations that we are.

Our military power is about influence and position.

When it comes to our deficits and debt, that is exclusively because politics demands spending beyond means. It is not about military spending alone, or social safety net spending alone, or any one area. It is all of it because the nature of obtaining votes is all about the promise of less taxation, more spending, or some terrible combination of the two. Total Debt goes up all the time.

The OP strategy is bumper sticker thinking, it excludes so much of why we ended up where we are.
Click to expand...

*Yawn* You're way off-topic, dude. You are extensively misrepresenting me and I don't appreciate that. I wasn't making an argument about tyranny, someone asked a question and I answered it. I'm also not making an argument about spending habits, I'm talking about ways to reorganize military spending in a way that will be cheaper.
 
FreeWits said:
*Yawn* You're way off-topic, dude. You are extensively misrepresenting me and I don't appreciate that. I wasn't making an argument about tyranny, someone asked a question and I answered it. I'm also not making an argument about spending habits, I'm talking about ways to reorganize military spending in a way that will be cheaper.
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No, I answered a question between you two that has nothing to do with our military spending. Not my fault you do not like it.

On your OP the only way to control military spending is to control how frequently we go fight somewhere, which speaks to the point I was making. Spending on bases is only part of the problem, deciding on having less bases but with the same reach across the globe totally ignores what got us into 2 of the longest and rather costly fights in our nation's history.

"Reorganize military spending" misses the point of how we got into this mess of spending more on our military than the next 8 or so nations combined... by miles.
 
OrphanSlug said:
No, I answered a question between you two that has nothing to do with our military spending. Not my fault you do not like it.

On your OP the only way to control military spending is to control how frequently we go fight somewhere, which speaks to the point I was making. Spending on bases is only part of the problem, deciding on having less bases but with the same reach across the globe totally ignores what got us into 2 of the longest and rather costly fights in our nation's history.

"Reorganize military spending" misses the point of how we got into this mess of spending more on our military than the next 8 or so nations combined... by miles.
Click to expand...

Again, you are way off-topic. I'm not making an all-inclusive argument. Just because I'm proposing this strategy does not mean we can't also do other things. And I didn't ask a question about tyranny, he did, yet you responded to me. That shows that your excuse now is dishonest. You are losing credibility with your lying, and fast.
 
FreeWits said:
Do you think China is more likely to attack us militarily or economically?
Click to expand...
The USA has already attacked China economically. What do you think the tariffs and sanctions are all about? Weaponized Fiat US Dollar. Weaponized SWIFT. Military intervention in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. Colluding to support the Saudi military to destroy Yemen and cause a famine of Biblical proportions. There does seem to be tyrannical behavior afoot, eh? It's not the Chinese. Look a little closer to home./
 
DaveFagan said:
The USA has already attacked China economically. What do you think the tariffs and sanctions are all about? Weaponized Fiat US Dollar. Weaponized SWIFT. Military intervention in Syria, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan. Colluding to support the Saudi military to destroy Yemen and cause a famine of Biblical proportions. There does seem to be tyrannical behavior afoot, eh? It's not the Chinese. Look a little closer to home./
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It's amazing how I keep getting attacked for things I didn't even come close to saying. In fact, you make my point for me. The threat from China is more economic than military. The more we spend building up our military, the more we are helping China destroy our military economically. That's the entire point.
 
OrphanSlug said:
We need to get something very straight, our military power has nothing to do with keeping the world safe from tyranny and/or totalitarianism. If that were true at all we would not be friends and allied to half the nations that we are.

Our military power is about influence and position.

When it comes to our deficits and debt, that is exclusively because politics demands spending beyond means. It is not about military spending alone, or social safety net spending alone, or any one area. It is all of it because the nature of obtaining votes is all about the promise of less taxation, more spending, or some terrible combination of the two. Total Debt goes up all the time.

The OP strategy is bumper sticker thinking, it excludes so much of why we ended up where we are.
Click to expand...

Obama brought more taxation and yet the debt doubled under his administration. If democrats win back control of Congress they will try to bring back Obama mega-taxation and still keep spending like crazy. They claim the republicans spend too much and yet it has always been the democrats who keep advocating the raising of the debt ceiling.
 
FreeWits said:
I agree, and I think my plan is the best for remaining prepared. It focuses on progress while maintaining a global reach to help fight natural disasters, react to any conflict necessary, etc. How prepared will the military remain if we don't solve the economics of our situation? How prepared will our military be if our debt:GDP raises to 400% like China's is?
Click to expand...

What good will welfare be if the US runs out of money trying to solve every little problem poor people have by throwing more money at them?
 
marke said:
What good will welfare be if the US runs out of money trying to solve every little problem poor people have by throwing more money at them?
Click to expand...

It won't be good at all. Now can we get back on topic?
 
marke said:
Obama brought more taxation and yet the debt doubled under his administration. If democrats win back control of Congress they will try to bring back Obama mega-taxation and still keep spending like crazy. They claim the republicans spend too much and yet it has always been the democrats who keep advocating the raising of the debt ceiling.
Click to expand...

This is as disingenuous as it gets.

Obama walked into office with a financial disaster to contend with and deficits through the roof, and then spent 6 years working with a split or Republican controlled Congress. The debt ceiling has consistently been raised no matter who is President and in control of Congress, and this is besides the fact that budgets originate in Congress making the debt ceiling itself an imaginary mark that we have *yet* to really observe.

There has not been a President in decades (with their associated Congresses) that has not raised the debt ceiling, proving beyond all debate that it a ludicrous means of controlling debt.

Try again... (this should be good.)
 
marke said:
People disagree over the level of military preparedness. There isn't enough money in the world to enable nations of the world to provide adequate militaries. The US is like the rich mansion (nation) on a hill surrounded by slum dwellers (poor nations) on every side below. We must remain vigilant and prepared.
Click to expand...

Having a military that accounts fore at least 40% of world wide spending is not large enough to keep territorial US safe? Is the US military that incompetent that it needs to spend at around 4 times that of the next largest military to be safe?
 
marke said:
If the world is safe from tyranny and totalitarianism then why do any countries even have a military?
Click to expand...

Well for starters,

because militaries at their core are defense mechanisms in the spirit of "just in case"

Second, a lot of nations don't build militaries out of fear of tyranny and totaltarianism
 
OrphanSlug said:
This is as disingenuous as it gets.

Obama walked into office with a financial disaster to contend with and deficits through the roof, and then spent 6 years working with a split or Republican controlled Congress. The debt ceiling has consistently been raised no matter who is President and in control of Congress, and this is besides the fact that budgets originate in Congress making the debt ceiling itself an imaginary mark that we have *yet* to really observe.

There has not been a President in decades (with their associated Congresses) that has not raised the debt ceiling, proving beyond all debate that it a ludicrous means of controlling debt.

Try again... (this should be good.)
Click to expand...

Let's try to put some things into proper perspective. A debt ceiling debate erupted in DC with republicans and democrats battling over what conditions to impose before raising the ceiling. Some democrats called for the elimination of the debt ceiling altogether. Some republicans balked at raising the ceiling any amount at all. Here is what Wikipedia said about the debt ceiling crisis of 2013:

Republican Speaker of the House, John Boehner and the Senate Republican minority leader Mitch McConnell as well as other Republicans argued that the debt ceiling should not be raised unless spending is cut by an amount equal to or greater than the debt ceiling increase.

I agree with the Republicans that America needs to desperately cut spending to avoid inevitable bankruptcy. I cannot understand why democrats do not agree.
 
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