• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

USS Decatur harassed

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
94,262
Reaction score
82,620
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Dohi9mrU4AAyrZd.jpg


The Chinese destroyer Lanzhou/PRC 170 (right) swerving in front of the USS Decatur/DDG 73.

At this point the ships are within 45 yards of each other. The Decatur was forced into an emergency maneuver to prevent a collision.

This incident occurred “in the vicinity” of Gaven Reef in the Spratly Islands on Sunday, 30 September 2018. Courtesy gCaptain.com
 
Dohi9mrU4AAyrZd.jpg


The Chinese destroyer Lanzhou/PRC 170 (right) swerving in front of the USS Decatur/DDG 73.

At this point the ships are within 45 yards of each other. The Decatur was forced into an emergency maneuver to prevent a collision.

This incident occurred “in the vicinity” of Gaven Reef in the Spratly Islands on Sunday, 30 September 2018. Courtesy gCaptain.com

Unless China backs off their current military stance in that area, someone will make a mistake, someone will ram or fire, and it will get out of hand quickly.

China is conducting land piracy, obstructing free flow of trade through international waters, threatening military actions, and will eventually hit a trip wire that will cause a cascading of worse following bad.
 
Unless China backs off their current military stance in that area, someone will make a mistake, someone will ram or fire, and it will get out of hand quickly.

China is conducting land piracy, obstructing free flow of trade through international waters, threatening military actions, and will eventually hit a trip wire that will cause a cascading of worse following bad.
im hoping “ Vietnam “ hits the oil production platforms China’s economy is based upon.
 
Dohi9mrU4AAyrZd.jpg


The Chinese destroyer Lanzhou/PRC 170 (right) swerving in front of the USS Decatur/DDG 73.

At this point the ships are within 45 yards of each other. The Decatur was forced into an emergency maneuver to prevent a collision.

This incident occurred “in the vicinity” of Gaven Reef in the Spratly Islands on Sunday, 30 September 2018. Courtesy gCaptain.com

Sink them next time.
 
Unless China backs off their current military stance in that area, someone will make a mistake, someone will ram or fire, and it will get out of hand quickly.

China is conducting land piracy, obstructing free flow of trade through international waters, threatening military actions, and will eventually hit a trip wire that will cause a cascading of worse following bad.

Then do it before they get even more power in the area. Sink one of their ships or shoot down their jets when they play chicken and send a message that this will not be tolerated. China will whine but they will back down.
 
It always looks to me like the USA is the "Agente provacateur" in these South China Sea confrontations. We are 6,000 miles or more away from home and in the Chinese backyard. I don't see where any South China Sea trade has been affected nor any violations by China. I do see the USA creating confrontational events by sailing close to the 12 mile limits of Chinese installations. All USA MSM spins this to sound leke Chinese provocations. Just more "Pete and repeat" to generate Cold War animosities to boost Military Offense/MIC budgets instead of social programs..
/
 
Unless China backs off their current military stance in that area, someone will make a mistake, someone will ram or fire, and it will get out of hand quickly.

China is conducting land piracy, obstructing free flow of trade through international waters, threatening military actions, and will eventually hit a trip wire that will cause a cascading of worse following bad.

Examples of the obstruction of free flow of trade in international waters please. I have not heard of any actual incidents of that
 
It always looks to me like the USA is the "Agente provacateur" in these South China Sea confrontations. We are 6,000 miles or more away from home and in the Chinese backyard. I don't see where any South China Sea trade has been affected nor any violations by China. I do see the USA creating confrontational events by sailing close to the 12 mile limits of Chinese installations. All USA MSM spins this to sound leke Chinese provocations. Just more "Pete and repeat" to generate Cold War animosities to boost Military Offense/MIC budgets instead of social programs..
/

Guess what Dave? The South China Sea is also Taiwan's backyard. And the Philippines. And Malaysia. And Vietnam.

Funny how easy it is for you not to notice things you don't want to.

Why exactly do you think the PRC should have special treatment again?
 
I would anchor a CVBG(carrier battle group) right smack dab in the middle of those "disputed" waters.
 
If you’d google Horizon Oil AX, you’d see that a few amraams would be able to make China shut up.
 
It always looks to me like the USA is the "Agente provacateur" in these South China Sea confrontations. We are 6,000 miles or more away from home and in the Chinese backyard. I don't see where any South China Sea trade has been affected nor any violations by China. I do see the USA creating confrontational events by sailing close to the 12 mile limits of Chinese installations. All USA MSM spins this to sound leke Chinese provocations. Just more "Pete and repeat" to generate Cold War animosities to boost Military Offense/MIC budgets instead of social programs..
/

You either have zero idea when it comes to what China has been doing in the region or you are a Chinese agent, pick one, makes no difference.
 
Examples of the obstruction of free flow of trade in international waters please. I have not heard of any actual incidents of that

So far that is why they built and are building more artificial islands in the South China Sea, to be able to control the trade allowed to flow through the area. They also invade Korean and Japanese airspace to show them that they can get away with it. Shoot a few if tgem down and that will stop. Either address the issue now or deal with a larger conflict down the road.
 
Dohi9mrU4AAyrZd.jpg


The Chinese destroyer Lanzhou/PRC 170 (right) swerving in front of the USS Decatur/DDG 73.

At this point the ships are within 45 yards of each other. The Decatur was forced into an emergency maneuver to prevent a collision.

This incident occurred “in the vicinity” of Gaven Reef in the Spratly Islands on Sunday, 30 September 2018. Courtesy gCaptain.com

This stuff happens all the time on both sides
 
So far that is why they built and are building more artificial islands in the South China Sea, to be able to control the trade allowed to flow through the area. They also invade Korean and Japanese airspace to show them that they can get away with it. Shoot a few if tgem down and that will stop. Either address the issue now or deal with a larger conflict down the road.

So they have not actually interfered in international trade in international waters as of this date?

The airspace you are talking about is international air space and not actually Korean or Japanese controlled airspace. It is just their ADIZ's that China has entered
 
Examples of the obstruction of free flow of trade in international waters please. I have not heard of any actual incidents of that

Sure. Here's just a few to try to stay under the character count limit that I got from Wikipedia (LINK) because it's easy:

8 January 2005 – Chinese ships fired upon two Vietnamese fishing boats from Thanh Hóa Province, killing 9 people and detaining one ship with 8 people on Hainan Island. Chinese Foreign Ministry claim they were pirates that opened fire first and obtained confession from the arrested members.

March 2009 – The Pentagon reported that Chinese ships harassed a US surveillance ship. According to the report, five Chinese vessels "shadowed and aggressively maneuvered in dangerously close proximity to USNS Impeccable, in an apparent coordinated effort to harass the U.S. ocean surveillance ship while it was conducting routine operations in international waters." The crew members aboard the vessels, two of which were within 50 feet, waved Chinese flags and told the US ship to leave the area, the statement said.


25 February 2011 – The Chinese frigate Dongguan fired three shots at Philippine fishing boats in the vicinity of Jackson atoll. The shots were fired after the frigate instructed the fishing boats to leave, and one of those boats experienced trouble removing its anchor.

26 May 2011 – The clash involved the Vietnamese Binh Minh 02 oil and gas survey ship and three Chinese maritime patrol vessels occurred 120 km (80 miles) off the south-central coast of Vietnam and some 600 km south of China's Hainan island. Vietnam says the Chinese boats deliberately cut the survey ship's cables in Vietnamese waters. China denies the allegation. The event stirred up unprecedented anti-China protests in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh city.

9 June 2011 – A Norwegian-flagged seismic conducting ship hired by Vietnam Oil & Gas Corporation (PetroVietnam) clashed with another three Chinese fishery patrol vessels within Vietnam's Exclusive Economic Zone. Vietnam once again claimed its exploration cables were deliberately cut.

April 2012 – The Philippine warship Gregorio del Pilar was involved in a standoff with two Chinese surveillance vessels in the Scarborough Shoal, an area claimed by both nations. The Philippine navy had been trying to arrest Chinese fishermen who were allegedly taking government-protected marine species from the area, but the surveillance boats prevented them.

16 April 2012 – The Chinese Foreign Ministry urged a Philippine archaeological ship to immediately leave the waters of the Scarborough Shoal, which China claims is an "integral part of its territory."

7 May 2012 – Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying called a meeting with Alex Chua, Chargé d'affaires of the Philippine Embassy in China, to make a serious representation over the current incident at the Scarborough Shoal. China also warned its nationals against travel to the Philippines and raised trade barriers on imported pineapples and bananas.

16 May 2012 – A fishing ban in the Scarborough Shoal by the governments of China and the Philippines became effective. By mid June 2012, both nations had withdrawn their vessels from the waters around the disputed Shoal due to the arrival of the typhoon season. By July 2012, China had erected a barrier to the entrance of the shoal, and that vessels belonging to Beijing's China Marine Surveillance and Fisheries Law Enforcement Command were observed nearby the disputed shoal; as of December 2012, Chinese government ships remain around the shoal and have been turning away Filipino vessels; additionally, China has stated it would interdict, and board, any foreign vessel that entered waters it claimed. China later clarified that it would only conduct interdiction, and boarding, vessels within 12 nautical miles for which China has announced baselines.

There are dozens and dozens of examples on the internet that stretch all the way to today that can be found rather easily.
 
So they have not actually interfered in international trade in international waters as of this date?

The airspace you are talking about is international air space and not actually Korean or Japanese controlled airspace. It is just their ADIZ's that China has entered
Not Yet,
BS
Where in China are you?
 
Sure. Here's just a few to try to stay under the character count limit that I got from Wikipedia (LINK) because it's easy:

8 January 2005 – Chinese ships fired upon two Vietnamese fishing boats from Thanh Hóa Province, killing 9 people and detaining one ship with 8 people on Hainan Island. Chinese Foreign Ministry claim they were pirates that opened fire first and obtained confession from the arrested members.
Fishing in Chinese territorial waters.
March 2009 – The Pentagon reported that Chinese ships harassed a US surveillance ship. According to the report, five Chinese vessels "shadowed and aggressively maneuvered in dangerously close proximity to USNS Impeccable, in an apparent coordinated effort to harass the U.S. ocean surveillance ship while it was conducting routine operations in international waters." The crew members aboard the vessels, two of which were within 50 feet, waved Chinese flags and told the US ship to leave the area, the statement said.
US naval ship, not part of international trade
25 February 2011 – The Chinese frigate Dongguan fired three shots at Philippine fishing boats in the vicinity of Jackson atoll. The shots were fired after the frigate instructed the fishing boats to leave, and one of those boats experienced trouble removing its anchor.
Fishing in Chinese territorial waters
26 May 2011 – The clash involved the Vietnamese Binh Minh 02 oil and gas survey ship and three Chinese maritime patrol vessels occurred 120 km (80 miles) off the south-central coast of Vietnam and some 600 km south of China's Hainan island. Vietnam says the Chinese boats deliberately cut the survey ship's cables in Vietnamese waters. China denies the allegation. The event stirred up unprecedented anti-China protests in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh city.
Exploration for oil and gas in territories claimed by China
9 June 2011 – A Norwegian-flagged seismic conducting ship hired by Vietnam Oil & Gas Corporation (PetroVietnam) clashed with another three Chinese fishery patrol vessels within Vietnam's Exclusive Economic Zone. Vietnam once again claimed its exploration cables were deliberately cut.

April 2012 – The Philippine warship Gregorio del Pilar was involved in a standoff with two Chinese surveillance vessels in the Scarborough Shoal, an area claimed by both nations. The Philippine navy had been trying to arrest Chinese fishermen who were allegedly taking government-protected marine species from the area, but the surveillance boats prevented them.

16 April 2012 – The Chinese Foreign Ministry urged a Philippine archaeological ship to immediately leave the waters of the Scarborough Shoal, which China claims is an "integral part of its territory."

7 May 2012 – Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying called a meeting with Alex Chua, Chargé d'affaires of the Philippine Embassy in China, to make a serious representation over the current incident at the Scarborough Shoal. China also warned its nationals against travel to the Philippines and raised trade barriers on imported pineapples and bananas.

16 May 2012 – A fishing ban in the Scarborough Shoal by the governments of China and the Philippines became effective. By mid June 2012, both nations had withdrawn their vessels from the waters around the disputed Shoal due to the arrival of the typhoon season. By July 2012, China had erected a barrier to the entrance of the shoal, and that vessels belonging to Beijing's China Marine Surveillance and Fisheries Law Enforcement Command were observed nearby the disputed shoal; as of December 2012, Chinese government ships remain around the shoal and have been turning away Filipino vessels; additionally, China has stated it would interdict, and board, any foreign vessel that entered waters it claimed. China later clarified that it would only conduct interdiction, and boarding, vessels within 12 nautical miles for which China has announced baselines.

There are dozens and dozens of examples on the internet that stretch all the way to today that can be found rather easily.

All the above are example of violations of EEZ. Not interference in international trade in international water. That would mean the prevention of cargo vessels from sailing through for example the Straights of Gibraltar. The US has been sailing in the SC Sea under the Freedom of Navigation flag, not under disputes of who owns what island and the EEZ's rights of countries
 
Not Yet,
BS
Where in China are you?

Show me outside of the disputed island with Japan, and the disputed Island with SK that China has violated Japanese or SK airspace (ie the 12 nautical miles) that is actually the only thing that counts when it comes to violating a countries airspace
 

It appears you have made up your mind that China has territorial rights over the South China Sea, even though the entire world (with the exception of The Philippine President and Putin) say otherwise.

I wish I would have known that before spending all that time getting the information you requested but summarily ignored and dismissed.

I'll keep that in mind in the future.
 
It appears you have made up your mind that China has territorial rights over the South China Sea, even though the entire world (with the exception of The Philippine President and Putin) say otherwise.

I wish I would have known that before spending all that time getting the information you requested but summarily ignored and dismissed.

I'll keep that in mind in the future.

EEZ's are different than international trade in international waters. One can sail through EEZ's without trouble. But fishing in one can get the boat in trouble
 
You either have zero idea when it comes to what China has been doing in the region or you are a Chinese agent, pick one, makes no difference.

When you deploy on foreign borders, you can expect interception by the natives. If they deem you too close to the border, they will swerve aircraft or ships in the direction that they want you to turn. However, if one does not antagonize foreigners with near trespass on their borders, these intercepts do not occur. The border incrusions become a self fulfilling phrophecy for those wanting to inflame Cold War rhetoric magnified by USA MSM. Somebody doesn't understand. That's for sure. It's the same as reading about intercepts of Russian planes near Alaska. Provocations.
/
 
THE SOUTH CHINA SEA ARBITRATION | THE REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES V. THE PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA (pdf)

China attacks international court after South China Sea ruling

Decided on 12 July 2016 by The Hague Arbitration Tribunal via the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) treaties and conventions. To wit:

• There was no legal basis for China to claim historic rights to resources within the sea areas falling within "nine-dash line".
• UNCLOS does not provide for a group of islands such as the Spratly Islands to generate maritime zones collectively as a unit.
• China had breached its obligations under the convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea and Article 94 of UNCLOS concerning maritime safety.
• China violated the its obligations to refrain from aggravating or extending the parties disputes during the pendency of the settlement process.
 
When you deploy on foreign borders, you can expect interception by the natives. If they deem you too close to the border, they will swerve aircraft or ships in the direction that they want you to turn. However, if one does not antagonize foreigners with near trespass on their borders, these intercepts do not occur. The border incrusions become a self fulfilling phrophecy for those wanting to inflame Cold War rhetoric magnified by USA MSM. Somebody doesn't understand. That's for sure. It's the same as reading about intercepts of Russian planes near Alaska. Provocations.
/

Gavin Reef

imagesa.jpg

They are also claimed by Taiwan, the Philippines and Vietnam.
 
Back
Top Bottom