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How Russia stole the night

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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How Russia stole the night: Inside the illegal market for American night-vision technology

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Long, yet interesting and informative article on how the Kremlin has closed what was once a huge knowledge gap with US military night vision technology.
 
The fuss between Russia and the Ukraine isn't our business, and we don't need to worry about which country has the best night vision.

Honestly. :roll:
 
Then keep scrolling...
 
How does one 'steal' the night?

I understand it's a figure of speech, no problem, but it is also an example of subtle propaganda against Russia.

We take NVG technology from the aliens at Roswell and it's way cool. They take NVG technology from us or develop it on their own from crashed spacecraft over there, and it's "OMG the Russians are coming!!"
 
The article almost makes it look like nvg tech is beyond russia, when in fact they had nvg tech around the same time america did. If people think gen russian is junk, it is it is what most surplus stores sell, however american gen 1 is junk. Past gen 2 improvements are tiny and not a big deal.

From what I have researched, the only issue russia is having is combining ir night vision and thermal into a single scope or optical device. Heck in my army carreer I never used a device capable of all 3, usually nvg's with ir, or thermal with ir, but never all 3 in the same device.
 
Thoreau72 said:
How does one 'steal' the night?

I understand it's a figure of speech, no problem, but it is also an example of subtle propaganda against Russia.

We take NVG technology from the aliens at Roswell and it's way cool. They take NVG technology from us or develop it on their own from crashed spacecraft over there, and it's "OMG the Russians are coming!!"
Click to expand...

You do understand this isn't the CT section right. That is the place all crazy fairy tales are supposed to be posted.
 
beerftw said:
The article almost makes it look like nvg tech is beyond russia, when in fact they had nvg tech around the same time america did. If people think gen russian is junk, it is it is what most surplus stores sell, however american gen 1 is junk. Past gen 2 improvements are tiny and not a big deal.

From what I have researched, the only issue russia is having is combining ir night vision and thermal into a single scope or optical device. Heck in my army carreer I never used a device capable of all 3, usually nvg's with ir, or thermal with ir, but never all 3 in the same device.
Click to expand...
I am sorry but if you think the difference between gen 2 and modern nvgs are tiny and no big deal then either you have never used a set of each or you simply have never used night vision for anything meaningful. The difference between something like a pvs7 and the 31 white phosphorus that I currently run is massive. Even more so when you start talking about things like UNSs for use on sniper systems

That's not even getting in to things like IR with thermal overlay like my PSQ36s.
 
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braindrain said:
I am sorry but if you think the difference between gen 2 and modern nvgs are tiny and no big deal then either you have never used a set of each or you simply have never used night vision for anything meaningful. The difference between something like a pvs7 and the 31 white phosphorus that I currently run is massive. Even more so when you start talking about things like UNSs for use on sniper systems

That's not even getting in to things like IR with thermal overlay like my PSQ36s.
Click to expand...

Gen 2 was the major leap, gen 3 is a little better range and quality, gen 4 is technichally not real but rather a civilian designation for gen 3+, which just removes the filter. I have used gen 2 and 3 in the military, as well as gen one, however my gen one experience was just basic training and ait, and gen one was such garbage, they were better than no night vision but gen two was miles apart by comparison. For the rest of it I have never used past gen three, probably 97.5% of the military has ever used the latest and greatest, they are still on gen 3 or lower end 3+ with gen 2 still in common use and gen one being in storage or for training.
 
beerftw said:
Gen 2 was the major leap, gen 3 is a little better range and quality, gen 4 is technichally not real but rather a civilian designation for gen 3+, which just removes the filter. I have used gen 2 and 3 in the military, as well as gen one, however my gen one experience was just basic training and ait, and gen one was such garbage, they were better than no night vision but gen two was miles apart by comparison. For the rest of it I have never used past gen three, probably 97.5% of the military has ever used the latest and greatest, they are still on gen 3 or lower end 3+ with gen 2 still in common use and gen one being in storage or for training.
Click to expand...

When did you go through basic that you were using gen 1 nods.
Even within gen 2 there were rather noticeable improvements. 7Ds vs 14s is a large step forward. And to state that the improvements since gen 2 were no big deal is simply off base.
 
HowardBThiname said:
The fuss between Russia and the Ukraine isn't our business, and we don't need to worry about which country has the best night vision.

Honestly. :roll:
Click to expand...

Honestly, you should actually read/comprehend an article before commenting.
 
braindrain said:
When did you go through basic that you were using gen 1 nods.
Even within gen 2 there were rather noticeable improvements. 7Ds vs 14s is a large step forward. And to state that the improvements since gen 2 were no big deal is simply off base.
Click to expand...

I went to basic in 09, The night vision gen one I used I had to google, as I really never had to memorize any nvg designations. It was the pvs2 scope, used in night time training with live fire, however the scope was never attatched to anything, i just had to use it handheld. That was during a live fire training where I got to play with the m249 with tracer rounds shooting far off from where the other soldiers were, just for effects to make it feel more like a night time battlefield. Outside of basic I have seen them but not used them since, the national guard had them in storage and would sometimes inventory them, but even they only issued gen 2 and 3, which leads me to believe they were just sitting there on standby, or were meant to be turned in a long time before and never were.

On gen 2 i Had those in basic as well as active duty, the ones I had in basic were dimmer than gen 1, and would flicker nonstop, which was likely from wave after wave of recruits abusing that equipment with little time to repair them. Those same gen 2(I believe you called them pvs7) in active duty actually worked very well. To me the gen 3 is just a little clearer and brighter than gen 2, unless you count gen3+ which gets up to twice as bright as normal gen 2, however gen 2 is 20x brighter than gen one, which is what I call a massive leap.


This is not going into thermal vision much either, I had a thermal scope in afghanistan and thermal on a maxpro mrap, the mrap had the worst thermal I has ever used, while the scope I had was absolutely amazing, I loved playing around with it in the guard tower.
 
beerftw said:
I went to basic in 09, The night vision gen one I used I had to google, as I really never had to memorize any nvg designations. It was the pvs2 scope, used in night time training with live fire, however the scope was never attatched to anything, i just had to use it handheld. That was during a live fire training where I got to play with the m249 with tracer rounds shooting far off from where the other soldiers were, just for effects to make it feel more like a night time battlefield. Outside of basic I have seen them but not used them since, the national guard had them in storage and would sometimes inventory them, but even they only issued gen 2 and 3, which leads me to believe they were just sitting there on standby, or were meant to be turned in a long time before and never were.

On gen 2 i Had those in basic as well as active duty, the ones I had in basic were dimmer than gen 1, and would flicker nonstop, which was likely from wave after wave of recruits abusing that equipment with little time to repair them. Those same gen 2(I believe you called them pvs7) in active duty actually worked very well. To me the gen 3 is just a little clearer and brighter than gen 2, unless you count gen3+ which gets up to twice as bright as normal gen 2, however gen 2 is 20x brighter than gen one, which is what I call a massive leap.


This is not going into thermal vision much either, I had a thermal scope in afghanistan and thermal on a maxpro mrap, the mrap had the worst thermal I has ever used, while the scope I had was absolutely amazing, I loved playing around with it in the guard tower.
Click to expand...
Dam I went in 06 and we only used gen 2s. 7Ds for the most part. I have only ever seen some of the real old stuff when working with other nations. Crazy they still had that at basic
It is not just brightness that matters when it comes to night vision. Things like clarity, definition and field of view matter a lot as well. Go do some CQB or black out dubbing at 60mph with 7Ds vs 31 and I promise you that you won't think the improvements are small and no big deal.
 
braindrain said:
Dam I went in 06 and we only used gen 2s. 7Ds for the most part. I have only ever seen some of the real old stuff when working with other nations. Crazy they still had that at basic
It is not just brightness that matters when it comes to night vision. Things like clarity, definition and field of view matter a lot as well. Go do some CQB or black out dubbing at 60mph with 7Ds vs 31 and I promise you that you won't think the improvements are small and no big deal.
Click to expand...

I know different gens have more clearness as well, But for most of what the army has used it for it has been small difference, now sf and pilots have have much more use for all that extra brightness and clarity, but most have never used it short of a night time raid needing close range vision or sitting in a guard tower.


Now I have seen plenty of antique stuff in basic the regular army and the reserves would never touch, like those old analog radios with a bazillion switched(I exaggerate) which have long been replaced by digital radios, alice packs long after the army ditched them, I am sure there is more if I dig deep enough, all that junk is for training now, mostly as gear they can afford untrained recruits to break.


Also on gen one nightvision, I have also played with russian gen 1, when they got very small while america junped to gen 2 while their gen 1 was heavy and bulky. Since russia currently has gen 2 and 3, this leads me to believe cost was a major concern, which is why until the fall of the soviet union gen one was widespread, it was pennies on the dollar compared to gen 2 and 3, and let's face it back then the soviet army was larger than the american army, with a much smaller budget, costs needed to be cut anywhere they could. Nowadays you can buy gen one russian cheap because besides being junk even they have started phasing them out and selling obsolete models to the public. Oh and older gen one russian nvg cause eye cancer, something they were aware of and did little to fix.
 
:inandout:
 
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