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Thread: Chinese Military Updates

  1. #71
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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    The huge photo at your link has your bomber flying past Scarborough Shoal in the EEZ of the Philippines off Luzon island which is home to Manila, the capital. Your bomber does not belong there thx anyway.

    Why does it not belong there?

    If it not closer than 12 NM it is international airspace, and has the same right to be there as US airplanes do 12 nm from Chinese territory

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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by jbi View Post
    Some data leaks are quite reliable, especially news from Chinese shipyards.

    I'm going to assume they are moving to a high low force structure with the 055 being high end and the 052D/E taking over the anti-submarine role from the 054A frigates.

    It seems like a strange move to me as the 052D's cost a lot more than the 054's, but perhaps the next gen frigate was getting too close to the destroyer in terms of cost without the advantages of its larger hull.

    Loose lips sink ships.

    Which is why CCP Boyz in Beijing definitely minimize news and information about their ship launches, construction, ship trials and the like. So as I'd said, if you're getting the word on the street as you say you are then you're on a pretty good street and in a very special place over there. I myself haven't any reason to doubt your own word.

    Keeping us abreast is good and welcome so keep up the good work thx.

    May I ask -- are you strictly a shipyard technocrat or do you get up into the realm of strategy. Inquiring minds want to know because there are immediate issues of strategy that navies and their gunboats are involved in. Such as Scarborough Shoal in the Philippines EEZ of the South China Sea. Scarborough is the place the Pentagon has told the Boyz not to build since 2012 or, well, it will be an otherwise avoidable unpleasant development or experience. So far so good while the immediate future continues to look promising from where I sit over here.

    Then there's the Bashi Strait between Taiwan and the Phils which is the PLA Navy's only direct access route to the open western Pacific from the South China Sea. SecDef Jim Mattis and National Security Adviser John Bolton are arm in arm to establish a US naval and air base on Taiping island of Taiwan which is in the Strait. Taipei and Washington are discussing it so stay tuned thx.

    Then there's the Miyako Strait between Okinawa and Taiwan that is the PLAN only direct access route to the open western Pacific from the east coast of China. If there's an emergency and Miyako is closed to PLAN transit then PLAN has to sail up between Korea, Japan and Russia, turn over the north of Japan to sail south again and into the Pacific. That is needless to say a circuitous and dangerous route for the PLAN if there's any kind of serious commotion that may occur in coming times.


    China’s People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) on Sunday flew more than 40 aircraft through the Miyako Strait in the East China Sea, prompting the Japanese Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) to scramble a fighter in response. The Chinese aircraft flew on to the West Pacific.

    The Chinese deployment was part of a “routine drill,” according to a spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Defense.

    Shen Jinke, a PLAAF spokesperson, noted that the 40 aircraft were of “various types” and included H-6K bombers, Su-30 fighters, and air tankers. The drill involved the exercise of “reconnaissance and early warning, attacks on sea surface targets, and in-flight refueling to test the Air Force’s fighting capacity on the high seas.”


    Running between Miyako Island and Okinawa Island in Japan’s Okinawa Prefecture, the Miyako Strait is just wide enough to accommodate an international waterway through Japan’s exclusive economic zone.

    The Bashi Channel and Miyako Strait bear considerable strategic importance for the PLAAF and People’s Liberation Army-Navy (PLAN) as they permit China access to the Western Pacific beyond the first island chain, a set of islands running from the Kuril Islands in the Sea of Japan to the Philippines and Borneo.

    In addition to recent PLAAF activity in the Bashi Channel and Miyako Strait, the PLAN and China Coast Guard have increased their activity in the East China Sea as well.


    https://thediplomat.com/2016/09/east...-strait-drill/


    One hopes you're not shy about these thingys because DP is the welcoming place to be to discuss 'em. And sterile straightforward reports can get pretty stale pretty quickly if you know what I mean, and I'd like to be confident you do know.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Why does it not belong there?

    If it not closer than 12 NM it is international airspace, and has the same right to be there as US airplanes do 12 nm from Chinese territory
    Not so thx anyway.

    Under the UN ICLOS a shoal has no territorial rights of any kind. A shoal has a 50 meter protection zone to prevent any of its rocks getting banged up against or built on by some aggressive and nasty foreign intruder. The CCP Boyz in Beijing come most immediately to mind thx again for reminding us.

    Scarborough Shoal is by the ILOS included in the Philippines EEZ but that hasn't stopped Beijing taking possession of it and control over it. Kindly see the above in scrolling as to the only reason Beijing doesn't build on it -- the USN and USAF. CCP Boyz also do oil drilling in the Vietnam EEZ to the point of shooting at VN Coast Guard and civilian fishermen alike, no matter to 'em. The Boyz have had a "research ship" in the Malaysia EEZ for several years now despite objections by Kuala Lumpur.

    The Boyz think the South China Sea is a Chinese Lake. This has brought the French Pacific Fleet into it just recently. Other developments include India-Japan-Australia joint naval exercises in the Sea. USA does Freedom of Navigation Ops to point out that the ILOS says artificial islands have no territorial jurisdiction or claim of exclusivity. The Boyz contradict this by saying illegally their artificial islands have a 12 mile zone to include the sky above each of 'em. USN and India with Japan have been doing naval exercises too just to make things more clear to everyone, if not Beijing. This year the Vinson Carrier Strike Force visited Cam Ranh Bay where Hanoi built a spanking new carrier dock and facility that Indian carriers will be visiting next year too. India drills for oil in the VN EEZ at the request of Hanoi while Beijing hollers against it.

    In short, CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing are the neighbors from hell. Ask any of the countries of the region who know it well from the past 2500 years of a bullying and overbearing China. China's neighbors won't have any more of it in this day and age of their prosperity and the reasonably democratic governments most of 'em have and enjoy.
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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    China's J-10 boasting the latest WS10B engine with thrust vectoring showing off at the Zuhai air show.

    https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status...44031364423682

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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by jbi View Post
    China's J-10 boasting the latest WS10B engine with thrust vectoring showing off at the Zuhai air show.

    https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status...44031364423682

    Boyz in Beijing might consider inviting USAF Thunderbirds and USN Blue Angels to Zhuhai even if it might be for just one humbling time of humility. Oh that's right, the Chinese don't know humble or humility. I myself translate the Chinese name for China, Zhong Guo to mean Hubris. Indeed, the Hu, er, Chinese have spent the past 2500 years being overbearing throughout the region, grabby and arrogant.

    Zhuhai is a fine seacoast city as I'm sure you'd confirm. I once ate two dozen oysters there in one afternoon at a fine restaurant overlooking the harbor. I walked it off on the harbor boardwalk with Chinese friends. Macau is a stone's throw across the Pearl River estuary of course.

    Locals are not too keen however on all those PLA Air Force shows given the engine thunderings wake the dead. Not only does the racket rattle the stew in Zhuhai and Macau it also shatters the calm in closeby Hong Kong and Shenzhen adjacent to HKG. Rumor has it Vietnamese can hear 'em too down the coast on the South China Sea. That's where Beijing says Vietnam hasn't any territorial claim to VN waters. Beijing will tell you the sky belongs to 'em too and that when they're ready they'll grab it. Unless someone big stops 'em that is but that's another thread eh.

    All this and more is despite the UN ICLOS and the ruling two years ago by the Court of Arbitration in The Hague that VN waters belong to VN. It wasn't a tough decision cause the Tribunal was unanimous on it. So VN has six new Russian Kilo class subs which have the Klub missile that can penetrate into the Chinese mainland. Plus OB in his last year gave Hanoi a discount catalogue to Pentagon platforms of intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance to identify poachers and shoo 'em away.
    Last edited by Tangmo; 11-06-18 at 01:12 PM.
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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    It's a crap place for an airshow IMO. Terrible weather.

    Probably not a good idea to compare a technology demonstrator with a display team. Apples and oranges and all that.

    A little bit of information on the thrust vectoring the Chinese have developed and the other types such as that deployed on the SU-35.

    https://twitter.com/HenriKenhmann

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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by jbi View Post
    It's a crap place for an airshow IMO. Terrible weather.

    Probably not a good idea to compare a technology demonstrator with a display team. Apples and oranges and all that.

    A little bit of information on the thrust vectoring the Chinese have developed and the other types such as that deployed on the SU-35.

    https://twitter.com/HenriKenhmann




    Beijing initially tried to buy only the Su-35 engine from Putin but Vlad's personal accountants saw a great opportunity. So CCP Central Military Commission had to buy 24 complete Su-35 for $2 billion which is $83 million each. Picked their pocket in Beijing Putin did. And it's somewhat like if the US spent $2 billion to purchase 16 Eurofighter Typhoons. The world would figure US jet fighter tech wuz a bust which it ain't of course. The world buys from us while Russia sells to big bucks buyers in need such as China. Fleeces 'em one could say.


    J-10 crash in 2007. Reports did not emerge until three years after. J-10 crashed in 2010, 2011, 2014 etc.




    J-10 Russian-Chinese fighter of the PLA Air Force


    CCP Boyz began developing the J-10 in the 1980s yet they didn't get it reasonably whole till 2006. That was when CCP had completed fitting all the Russian parts into something that could get airborne without leaving too many of 'em strewn on the ground behind it. Until recently the Chinese thought that's what thrust vectoring meant.

    An exasperated manager at Shenyang Aircraft Corp that does the J-10 blew the whistle on 'em just recently. The manager exposed four company executives who were embezzling close to 100 million yuan ($16 million) a year. The manager said he himself oversaw production of several key components in the J-8 fighter that were built by temporary workers from eight factories where the companies ignored training, certifications, and work authorization.

    So the J-10 is a 4.5 generation fighter jet that is in perpetual struggle, the engine in particular. As far as 4.5 gen fighter jets go however Beijing's neighbors are fully cranked up already. India has the HAL Tejas, South Korea has the FA-50, and Japan has the F-2. SK has already provided 12 of its FA-50s to the Philippines -- meaning anything Beijing might try at the vitally strategic Scarborough Shoal in the Phils EEZ could cost 'em dearly not to mention set off more than Beijing would want to trigger.

    US has in recent years gifted the Phils several Hamilton Class coast guard cutters from their retirement while Japan has presented a dozen naval and coast guard patrol craft. Australia just made its biggest single item expenditure, $40 billion, for eleven French Barracuda subs. Speaking of the French, they're the only European nation to have a Pacific Naval Fleet and it's steaming the SCS theze dayze to include its carrier strike group the Charles de Gaulle.
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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    Beijing initially tried to buy only the Su-35 engine from Putin but Vlad's personal accountants saw a great opportunity. So CCP Central Military Commission had to buy 24 complete Su-35 for $2 billion which is $83 million each. Picked their pocket in Beijing Putin did. And it's somewhat like if the US spent $2 billion to purchase 16 Eurofighter Typhoons. The world would figure US jet fighter tech wuz a bust which it ain't of course. The world buys from us while Russia sells to big bucks buyers in need such as China. Fleeces 'em one could say.


    J-10 crash in 2007. Reports did not emerge until three years after. J-10 crashed in 2010, 2011, 2014 etc.




    J-10 Russian-Chinese fighter of the PLA Air Force


    CCP Boyz began developing the J-10 in the 1980s yet they didn't get it reasonably whole till 2006. That was when CCP had completed fitting all the Russian parts into something that could get airborne without leaving too many of 'em strewn on the ground behind it. Until recently the Chinese thought that's what thrust vectoring meant.

    An exasperated manager at Shenyang Aircraft Corp that does the J-10 blew the whistle on 'em just recently. The manager exposed four company executives who were embezzling close to 100 million yuan ($16 million) a year. The manager said he himself oversaw production of several key components in the J-8 fighter that were built by temporary workers from eight factories where the companies ignored training, certifications, and work authorization.

    So the J-10 is a 4.5 generation fighter jet that is in perpetual struggle, the engine in particular. As far as 4.5 gen fighter jets go however Beijing's neighbors are fully cranked up already. India has the HAL Tejas, South Korea has the FA-50, and Japan has the F-2. SK has already provided 12 of its FA-50s to the Philippines -- meaning anything Beijing might try at the vitally strategic Scarborough Shoal in the Phils EEZ could cost 'em dearly not to mention set off more than Beijing would want to trigger.

    US has in recent years gifted the Phils several Hamilton Class coast guard cutters from their retirement while Japan has presented a dozen naval and coast guard patrol craft. Australia just made its biggest single item expenditure, $40 billion, for eleven French Barracuda subs. Speaking of the French, they're the only European nation to have a Pacific Naval Fleet and it's steaming the SCS theze dayze to include its carrier strike group the Charles de Gaulle.
    The J 10 is more of a 4th gen plane, and nothing to due with Russian designs (suspected actually of being developed from the IAI Lavi)

    The HAL Tejas is garbage, and likely a far worse plane than the J 10. India has perhaps 40 of them currently

    The FA50 is a light fighter developed from the T50, a good plane, most likely less capable than the latest production F16

    Japan's F2 is a very expensive version of the F16, probably not as good as the latest F16 models
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  9. #79
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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The J 10 is more of a 4th gen plane, and nothing to due with Russian designs (suspected actually of being developed from the IAI Lavi)
    We still have to look at the markings to tell 'em apart at air shows. It's not like a Chinese marrying a Jew that we can recognize whether individually or together.

    When the PLA Navy carrier docked at the Russian base in Syria it didn't have any planes. CCP Boyz said the planes would fly over on their own, which never happened either. Deploying a carrier without its planes suggests the crew might still be reading the manuals. Bottom line is that PLAN hasn't anyone to train 'em who knows anything about it. This btw is the Chinese for Snafu: 斯纳福. Just watch out who's listening when you say it.





    The HAL Tejas is garbage, and likely a far worse plane than the J 10. India has perhaps 40 of them currently

    The FA50 is a light fighter developed from the T50, a good plane, most likely less capable than the latest production F16

    Japan's F2 is a very expensive version of the F16, probably not as good as the latest F16 models
    They all like to think they have their own equivalent to US fighter planes. This includes CCP Boyz in Beijing of course. We try not to say anything too disparaging about it. As we see however your approach varies. Looking at the Chinese fighters in particular I myself just say what's happening. I mean deafening engines are heard by everyone present and within a huge radius. So's a crash. If a J-10 crashes in the countryside does Beijing hear it? You bet they do thx for the reminder.
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    Re: Chinese Military Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangmo View Post
    We still have to look at the markings to tell 'em apart at air shows. It's not like a Chinese marrying a Jew that we can recognize whether individually or together.

    When the PLA Navy carrier docked at the Russian base in Syria it didn't have any planes. CCP Boyz said the planes would fly over on their own, which never happened either. Deploying a carrier without its planes suggests the crew might still be reading the manuals. Bottom line is that PLAN hasn't anyone to train 'em who knows anything about it. This btw is the Chinese for Snafu: 斯纳福. Just watch out who's listening when you say it.







    They all like to think they have their own equivalent to US fighter planes. This includes CCP Boyz in Beijing of course. We try not to say anything too disparaging about it. As we see however your approach varies. Looking at the Chinese fighters in particular I myself just say what's happening. I mean deafening engines are heard by everyone present and within a huge radius. So's a crash. If a J-10 crashes in the countryside does Beijing hear it? You bet they do thx for the reminder.
    Of course when an imaginary carrier is in Syria it will not have planes on it. The Chinese carrier never went to Syria, despite what Debka says
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