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Chinese Military Updates

The Russian naval forces and the PLA Naval forces share much in common. Each is building or completing a Fortress Fleet. That is, a fleet focused on the homeland and its near waters. Neither is contesting the high seas militarily or the commercial sea lanes that cross-cross among the continents. Militarily neither Russia nor China can compete against the United States and its ongoing advances to an already vastly superior naval force. And air forces. In commercial terms, the stakes are too high for everyone globally should either Russia or China seek to disrupt or to exercise control over international sea lanes of commerce and trade. Either country or both of 'em.



Each China and Russia is able to build ships that will be able to defend themselves against a comparable USN, Japanese or Nato naval combat ship. However, neither can the PLA Navy nor the Russian navy match up against a USN or Nato task force coming at 'em. Nor can PLAN or the Russian Navy match the USN or Nato naval forces on a total force effectiveness basis. In respect of the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force -- Navy -- its quality of ships, aircraft and subs, the personnel, regular and tough training at sea, technology, firepower, tactics, commanders professionalism, traditions and naval history mean the PLA Navy needs to concentrate on the JMSDF entirely and only. While PLAN has a total tonnage superior to the JMSDF, Japan's ships, crews and commanders are of a superior quality and its ASW is both sophisticated and strong in its numbers. PLAN against the JMSDF has its hands full on its best day, yet if PLAN must engage the USN too then PLAN is sunk.



Further, Russia and NATO have different strategic requirements. Russia protects its land with ships forward at sea. PLAN is conceived and designed to do the same. Yet PLAN has only some ships forward in the Indian Ocean and at the horn of Africa, the latter in anti-piracy operations. USN and NATO in contrast control the seas. Nato in particular is an alliance lying on two sides of an ocean. Which means that Russia needs a large amount of smaller ships in many places while NATO can afford fewer but bigger ships. CCP Boyz in Beijing are in contrast trying to build a blue water navy that has no blue water experience, expertise, confidence. And a blue water PLAN must await the completion of its Fortress Fleet which has only begun.

PLAN and the Russian Navy remain at a prohibitive disadvantage in any surface engagement. NATO vessels are by default stronger than Russian ships simply because the Russian doctrine calls for fewer stronger ships while requiring weaker ships in quantity. Russian ships might have comparable armament but Russian ships have weaker sensors, less durability and less endurance. NATO ships will be smarter, tougher, bigger and will have more stamina even if both sides hit equally hard in every respect. PLAN weaknesses are meanwhile well known. For instance, when PLAN goes out for live fire exercises it's always the same ships, crews, commanders, because they're the only ones trained for it and capable of not blowing themselves up in the process. The rest of Plan says ashore or well out of the way.

While the Russian Navy provides most of Russian anti-access and area denial defensive capability, Chinese are well ahead of Russia in A2/AD. The reason is that Beijing has a vast continuous coastline to defend, whereas Russia has pockets of small seas and only some open exposure to vast seas. While PLA defenses rely heavily on missile swarms, Russian defenses are less sophisticated. Russians are building Buyans for example, i.e., swarms of small ships that Moscow is relying on to launch missiles before being destroyed. So Russia and China are building Fortress Fleet defenses to keep fleets away from their shores, first and foremost. The US on the other hand has initiated its Third Offset Strategy to overcome the developing Fortress Fleet each major adversary is building. The bottom line is that while Moscow and Beijing can hope for the best each needs to expect the worst.
 
PLAN weaknesses are meanwhile well known. For instance, when PLAN goes out for live fire exercises it's always the same ships, crews, commanders, because they're the only ones trained for it and capable of not blowing themselves up in the process. The rest of Plan says ashore or well out of the way.

.


That's a fairly strong statement which I've not personally seen any evidence of. What is your source?
 
That's a fairly strong statement which I've not personally seen any evidence of. What is your source?


Your "personal" involvement with the PLA remains an unknown to readers and posters at your ambitious thread and topic. You might want to enlighten us with some measure of "personal" information to include perhaps a bit of detail. You did say in scrolling that you've been at it during the past 20 years if I recall accurately.

I've been in and out of the Boyz PRC going on ten years without having any employment or participation in the PLA, the PLA Navy, PLA Air Force and of course their Rocket Force. My own military experience was four years in the AUS which was admittedly a long time ago, plus eight years leadup to it in jr and sr Rotc, but I do try to keep up. I point out strengths and weaknesses while you promote the Party's military arm and you do it exclusively. That is the purpose of your thread and topic ne c'est pas.


As to your question I'm presently in the CCP where American Americans such as myself have to deal with the impact of the trade war on us. Chinese people continue to welcome me and associate with me cheerfully and in doing business. It's the rat bastards in the Party-Government who are less than pleasant these days. The censorship of internet and networks in CCP is particularly severe under Xi Jinpingpong but even more severe presently. So here's the best I can do for the time being but remind me if I might provide further info to you in respect of your question.

I know btw you're not going to say 40 Plan ships of yours were discharging live fires during the exercises. Indeed the snippet I quote below is about the travails of a Plan chopper gunship that needs to do it faster or face an involuntary transfer to eternity in real action when it comes, and come it will sooner or later...


Chinese navy carries out live-fire drills with more than 40 warships in the South China Sea as three US aircraft carrier battle groups prepare for their own exercises

US Navy will have three aircraft carrier groups in the region as trade war hots up


The Chinese navy has launched a navy drill in the South China Sea involving 40 ships to put on a show of strength as three U.S carrier battle groups pass by.

The USS Theodore Roosevelt flotilla arrived in Singapore on Monday for a regular port call after a deployment in the Middle East. It has been reported it will conduct drills with two US 7th Fleet carrier groups, centred on the USS Ronald Reagan and USS Carl Vinson, as they pass through the disputed waterways.

The military manoeuvres are being held as an Asian economic forum gets underway on the Chinese island of Hainan, which borders the disputed South China Sea
.


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China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, pictured in Hong Kong harbour, will be taking part in the exercises




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The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt moored at Changi Naval Base in Singapore

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-carrier-battle-groups-prepare-exercises.html
 
What the following headline does not say is that Plan has problems but then again that's a part of what drills are for. The issue is whether it is a luxury or a problem that no one is firing at you. You should also be able to recognize the Party central tv guy Mr. Song and his sing-songy narrative that characterizes Chinese talk in its common cultural mode. Chinese speak to each other as if no one knows anything, which they don't. Chinese make Trump look like Encyclopedia Britannica....


PLA Navy Tests Ship-Borne Choppers in S. China Sea Targets

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A Z-9 helicopter attached to an aviation regiment of the PLA Navy’s South China Sea Fleet fires a missile during a live-fire training exercise in the South China Sea. (PLA photo) It looks anyway more like the commuter helicopters I see in Hong Kong when I'm there than a naval air assault gunship.


Song said finding and targeting a rapidly moving vessel is not an easy task for helicopters, although they have greater flexibility.

"The helicopter will be exposed to the enemy's anti-aircraft fire when it hovers to launch attacks… Hence, the helicopter pilot must find, lock into and attack the target and quickly fly away… it is quite a test for the pilots," Song explained.

The live-fire drills also showed the PLA Navy's shortcomings in sea target attacks, which would require further actual combat training, Chen Jingguang, a leader of an aircraft battalion of the PLA's South China Sea Fleet, was quoted as saying by CCTV.

An improvement in the PLA Navy's sea target attack capability is aimed at, but not limited to, confronting the island of Taiwan and countries at the foot of the South China Sea, Song said. Some countries and regions will attempt to siege the PLA Navy's large ships with wolf pack tactics using high-speed missile gunboats. However, the very agile anti-ship helicopters could completely counter this scheme, Song said.


PLA Navy Tests Ship-Borne Choppers in S. China Sea Targets



Not many surface ships doing much live fire out there eh. If you might have seen anything otherwise kindly do let us know thx.
 
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This is more the idea btw....


bell-ah-1z-viper-3552x1999-attack-helicopter-us-marine-corps-hd-2919.jpg

U.S. Marine Corps' Latest Attack Helicopter AH-1Z Cobra Viper


The AH-1Z fire control and additional weapons delivery modes allowed for improved weapons delivery accuracy, reduced pilot workload, and enhanced employment flexibility compared with the AH-1W.

The H-1 Upgrade Program offers 84 percent “identicality” of parts shared between the AH-1Z and UH-1Y helicopters. This commonality reduces lifecycle and training costs and decreases the logistics footprint for both aircraft.


So does your Plan chopper landing gear include whitewall tires or what. The chopper's blue is a pretty color too...

Whitewalls like the PLA anti-ship missiles. The anti-ship missiles that have never been tested over water. Those missiles. Them whitewalls. C'mon now, level with us. Is there really anything inside those tubes? Never mind.

DF-21C_DF-21D_medium-range_ballistic_missile_China_Chinese_army_defense_industry_military_equipment_004.jpg




Your guys are neat if nothing else. Keep us posted thx.
 
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As to your question I'm presently in the CCP where American Americans such as myself have to deal with the impact of the trade war on us. Chinese people continue to welcome me and associate with me cheerfully and in doing business. It's the rat bastards in the Party-Government who are less than pleasant these days. The censorship of internet and networks in CCP is particularly severe under Xi Jinpingpong but even more severe presently. So here's the best I can do for the time being but remind me if I might provide further info to you in respect of your question.


You did not answer my question.

I'm trying to post factual updates and you have claimed that the Chinese Navy only sends the same few ships and crew out on experience because the rest are too untrained or incompetent.

That's fine.. now provide your source please, otherwise it's simply your unsubstantiated opinion and should be noted as so.

Thanks
 
You did not answer my question.

I'm trying to post factual updates and you have claimed that the Chinese Navy only sends the same few ships and crew out on experience because the rest are too untrained or incompetent.

That's fine.. now provide your source please, otherwise it's simply your unsubstantiated opinion and should be noted as so.

Thanks

I gave you my initial response and pointed out to you I am presently on mainland CCP where internet and network censorship is heavy, strong, pervasive and persistent. I guess you never had that problem over here -- or do not have it, whichever. I have a superior vpn which Party censors sometimes work around by closing or severing my China network connection with China Telecom. The network break doesn't last more than an hour or so each time, just so that I get the censor's point. The past several months my secure connection to DP gets severed as the tab simply goes blank, as in dead. And then DP only is inaccessible at all my browsers; Google search and Yahoo search are already inaccessible to everyone on the mainland cause they won't kiss the censors ass either. My Chinese friends presume to advise me of what I've known traveling in and out of CCP for years, i.e., I'm being censored -- with a billion others too. You seem ignorant of this problem too btw.

So in the meantime, let's read our friend Mr. Song again who we recall is the Party tv narrator on things PLA military. Mr. Song definitely thinks the carrier Lioning is a battlestar come to earth to China to sail and dominate the seas and all comers.

Plan's announced life fires drills in the Taiwan Strait never materialized. No Plan ships showed up in fact. Fujian province is directly across from Taiwan but you knew that. Same ships also...



China provokes Taiwan with ‘fake’ naval drill in sensitive, narrow gulf


BARELY a week after its enormous show of force in the South China Sea, Beijing’s navy is provoking Taiwan with the threat of a live-fire exercise in a sensitive strait

China’s Fujian Province maritime safety administration earlier today declared a naval live-fire drill was taking place between 8am and midnight local time.

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In this April 12, 2018 photo released by Xinhua News Agency, the Liaoning aircraft carrier is accompanied by navy frigates and submarines conducting an exercises in the South China Sea. Picture: Li Gang/XinhuaSource:AP


Vessels were told to avoid an area off the Chinese mainland’s coast, triggering speculation that a flotilla including the aircraft carrier Liaoning would take part in the exercise.

No Chinese navy ships were reported to be in the Taiwan Strait as of Wednesday afternoon.

Taiwan’s defence ministry says the drills only involve land-based artillery conducting “routine” shooting practice. Beijing has yet to release any information about the drill, which Chinese authorities had said would run until midnight, without giving any details about which military equipment or personnel would be involved.

“China deliberately released fake information to exaggerate it, to make it sound huge when in fact it’s small,” Taiwanese defence ministry spokesman Chen Chung-chi told AFP.

“The mainland must create military pressure to let the other side know that no matter whether it happens gradually or they really declare independence, it is totally unacceptable,” Song Zhongping, military commentator for Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV, told AFP.

Song, a former lecturer at a People’s Liberation Army university, had predicted that the Liaoning could participate in Wednesday’s drill, as it “has a lot of advantages for resolving the Taiwan problem”. “It can effectively acquire control of the airspace, and even effectively block the US-Japanese alliance’s strategy for intervening in China’s plan to settle the Taiwan issue,” he said.

“It’s the cheapest way of verbal intimidation and sabre-rattling,” Chen said.

The drill “is part of Beijing’s psychological warfare against Taiwan, and possibly a means to divert attention from Tsai’s visit abroad by compelling media to report on the military drills,” said J. Michael Cole, a Taipei-based senior fellow at the University of Nottingham’s China Policy Institute.


https://www.news.com.au/world/china...f/news-story/20d271d3fd852b0eb2eee1ae8e964942


I find the Chinese to be cute, mostly. They of course don't know what cute is.
 
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China's 6th type 071 LPD (Wuzhi shan) has started it's sea trials.

The 7th and possibly 8th units have also been spotted under construction.

China now operates the largest amphibious fleet outside of the US Navy.

00605YeAgy1fvklkpqzflj31hc0zku0x.jpg


https://twitter.com/HenriKenhmann
 
You sure you got 'em all there comrade. Or you going to do 'em all one by one. It could begin to look like you're going to be hell on wheels when it comes to bandwidth but never mind.

You anyway said in scrolling you base your knowledge on your personal experience in this stuff over the past 20 years. I welcome this as you can continue to enlighten us....


China's Navy Commissions 41st Type 056/056A Stealth Warship


The Chinese Navy reportedly commissioned another Type056 stealth corvette into service this month


June 13, 2018

thediplomat-p1726083-386x217.jpg



The People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) commissioned the 41st Type 056/056A Jiangdao-class corvette into service this month, according to local media reports. The commissioning ceremony of the new corvette, christened Nanchong, reportedly took place at a naval port in Guangdong province in Southern China in the presence of representatives of the Nanchong, a city located the northeast of China’s Sichuan province, in the beginning of June.

Based on a calculation by IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly, the Nanchong is the 41st Type 056/056A Jiangdao-class corvette to enter service with the PLAN. The last Type 056/56A corvette, dubbed Wuhai, was commissioned at a naval port in the city of Dalian in China’s Liaoning province on January 16. Two additional ships of the class, designated by the PLAN as light missile frigates, were put into service in November 2017. The commissioning of another stealth corvette has so far not officially been confirmed by the Chinese Ministry of National Defense.

Type 056/056A corvettes have been designed and built for patrol and escort operations in the exclusive economic zones of China within 200 nautical miles from the Chinese coastline and are are built in two variants: a multi-purpose Type 056 and a specialized anti-submarine warfare (ASW) variant Type 056A, which is equipped with variable depth sonars used for detecting and tracking submarines
.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/06/chinas-navy-commissions-41st-type-056056a-stealth-warship/



CCP Central Military Commission does not publicize all of its PLAN ship launches or commissionings because the Chinese being Chinese like secrets. A lot. Party censors remove any photos of unannounced ship launches etc that may occur by happenstance once images get posted to the Party owned and controlled internet and networks. The image above seems to have got away from 'em however. And it's an official photo besides, for private use only of course. It is the case regardless that US satellites do give us information that is relevant and material, so we manage. Then of course we have YOU TOO thx.
 
Let's fill in some of the huge blank spaces in the thread. For instance, counting navy ships is sort of like counting and lighting birthday candles, i.e., one can easily run out of breath plus looks can be deceiving....


China Naval Modernization: Implications for U.S. Navy Capabilities—Background and Issues for Congress

Ronald O'Rourke
Specialist in Naval Affairs
Congressional Research Service, U.S. Library of Congress

August 1, 2018


Observers believe China’s naval modernization effort is oriented toward developing capabilities for doing the following:

addressing the situation with Taiwan militarily, if need be;
asserting and defending China’s territorial claims in the South China Sea and East China Sea, and more generally, achieving a greater degree of control or domination over the SCS;
enforcing China’s view that it has the right to regulate foreign military activities in its 200-mile maritime exclusive economic zone (EEZ);
defending China’s commercial sea lines of communication (SLOCs), particularly those linking China to the Persian Gulf;
displacing U.S. influence in the Western Pacific;
and asserting China’s status as a leading regional power and major world power.


Consistent with these goals, observers believe China wants its military to be capable of acting as an anti-access/area-denial (A2/AD) force—a force that can deter U.S. intervention in a conflict in China’s near-seas region over Taiwan or some other issue, or failing that, delay the arrival or reduce the effectiveness of intervening U.S. forces.

Additional missions for China’s navy include conducting maritime security (including antipiracy) operations, evacuating Chinese nationals from foreign countries when necessary, and conducting humanitarian assistance/disaster response (HA/DR) operations.


https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf


CCP Boyz in Beijing don't do the HA/DR very well at all, if at all. When a typhoon leveled Luzon island in the Philippines CCP Boyz sent $100,000 bucks while USN sent a carrier task force and US Marines, USAF sent planeloads of rescue personnel and evacuation capabilities and US Army sent a swarm of helicopters for rescue and evacuation. The US response included food, water, medical specialists and supplies. It was 2016 right after the Court of Arbitration in The Hague had just ruled unanimously in support of Manila's petition to it that Beijing was violating every provision of the UN ICLOS in the SCS disputes. Beijing was arm flapping furious about it which spelled vengeance.





Also from the CRS Report....


Comparing U.S. and Chinese Naval Capabilities

U.S. and Chinese naval capabilities are sometimes compared by showing comparative numbers of U.S. and Chinese ships. Although numbers of ships (or aggregate fleet tonnages) are of analytical value in the context of an overall evaluation of a fleet’s capabilities relative to its missions209 and can be relatively easy to compile from published reference sources, they are highly problematic as a means of assessing relative U.S. and Chinese naval capabilities, for the following reasons:

 A fleet’s total number of ships (or its aggregate tonnage) is only a partial metric of its capability.

Total numbers of ships of a given type (such as submarines, destroyers, or frigates) can obscure potentially significant differences in the capabilities of those ships, both between navies and within one country’s navy.211

A focus on total ship numbers reinforces the notion that increases in total numbers necessarily translate into increases in aggregate capability, and that decreases in total numbers necessarily translate into decreases in aggregate capability.




For instance, while Plan has a superior tonnage to the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (Navy), it is the assessment of the US Naval War College that the JMSDF quality of personnel, training, commanders, ships, technology etc to include the nation's naval experience of the past 200 years would leave the Plan with a huge task to overcome in any conflict between 'em. A Russian fleet at the bottom of the sea there illustrates the point. China has zero naval combat experience plus Plan is owned and run by the Party which is massively corrupt. China's one admiral of a still modest historical note Xheng He was a eunuch who lost his fleet when the emperor ordered it burned because its sailors came home full of foreign ideas.
 
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Word on the street is that the Chinese have abandoned frigate construction in favor of larger warships.

Looks like it's going to be a mix of type 055 and type 052D/E going forward and the type 054B has been scrapped or postponed.

screenshot_2018-10-11-18-02-03-592_com-sina-weibo-jpg.504434


screenshot_2018-10-11-17-39-51-112_com-sina-weibo-jpg.504432
 

The huge photo at your link has your bomber flying past Scarborough Shoal in the EEZ of the Philippines off Luzon island which is home to Manila, the capital. Your bomber does not belong there thx anyway.


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The new bomber is expected to complement the H-6K, shown, in Chinese service. (Liu Rui/Xinhua via AP)

Shown in Chinese aggression is the accurate cutline that belongs with the photo.

CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing have closed Scarborough to the Phils since 2012. PLA Navy and coastal ships of the CCP continue to block the entrance to the Shoal and also prevent any Filipinos approaching it.

CCP needs Scarborough to complete its triangular control of the South China Sea. That is, CCP has possession of the Spratleys across the South of the Sea and the Paracels in the West of it. CCP possession of Scarborough at the east opening to the western Pacific and construction of an artificial military facility there would complete the envelopment of the sea lanes. But that's not acceptable to the nations that border the Sea, nor is it acceptable by the terms of the UN ICLOS Beijing signed in 1996 and rejected two years ago.

Each time Obama met personally with Xi Jinpingpong he told Xi to his face not to build on Scarborough. Because Scarborough is strategic to Beijings designs to control the sea lanes, Pentagon has made Scarborough a red zone. That is, don't build there. Pentagon is firm that it will not accept any construction on the Shoal. Xi has laid off and wisely so. Now with Trump and Mattis Xi is no better off and Xi is in fact worse off. And Xi knows it.

The backstory on Scarborough is that in 2012 Obama negotiated a mutual withdrawal from the Shoal of CCP naval and coastal ships that had been confronted by Philippines naval and coastal ships over control of the Shoal in the Phils EEZ. After both sides withdrew CCP ships snuck back in during the night to take control of it. That's when Pentagon told CCP in no uncertain terms that building there would be a big mistake. So it's been status quo since and status quo it will continue to be. Or else.
 
US has military updates too.

In fact it's getting time to start sorting things out over there....


The US military is planning a serious showdown with China that would be a significant show of force on tense tides and involve American warships and aircraft

In recent weeks, Washington and Beijing have quarreled over trade, sanctions, Taiwan, repeated bomber flights over disputed seas, and a confrontation between US and Chinese warships.

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US Navy guided-missile destroyers and guided-missile cruisers. U.S. Navy photo by Lt.j.g. Caleb Swigart


The US military is reportedly planning to put on a serious show of force in contested waters from the South China Sea to the Taiwan Strait as a warning to China and a reminder of the United States' ability to rapidly confront and counter any potential adversaries.

The US Pacific Fleet has proposed a series of exercises for November that would see American warships and aircraft demonstrating US military might in disputed waterways in a message to Beijing, CNN reported Wednesday afternoon, citing several defense officials.

Assuming the plan is approved, the operations would be carried out over the course of a week. News of this plan comes on the heels of serious incidents in the East and South China Seas.

Twice last week, the US sent B-52H Stratofortress heavy long-range bombers tearing through the South China Sea. Those flights were immediately followed by a joint military exercise in which a US B-52 bomber joined forces with Japanese fighter jets over the East China Sea and Sea of Japan.

On Sunday, the US Navy's Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyer conducted a freedom-of-navigation operation near the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea. During the routine operation, a Chinese Luyang II-class guided-missile destroyer confronted the US warship.

These incidents came amid other deteriorations in the US-China bilateral relationship, specifically issues pertaining to sanctions, trade, and Taiwan. In the past two weeks, the US and China have canceled several high-level military-to-military meetings intended to defuse tensions. While some observers have expressed concern, noting that the situation is escalating to dangerous levels, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis said the US and China simply need to learn to sort out their differences.


https://www.businessinsider.com/the...-a-serious-showdown-with-china-report-2018-10
 
Word on the street is that the Chinese have abandoned frigate construction in favor of larger warships.

Looks like it's going to be a mix of type 055 and type 052D/E going forward and the type 054B has been scrapped or postponed.

screenshot_2018-10-11-18-02-03-592_com-sina-weibo-jpg.504434


screenshot_2018-10-11-17-39-51-112_com-sina-weibo-jpg.504432


Chinese people on the street seem to be unusually well informed of their Naval ship program even though the CCP Boyz in Beijing don't often publish much about new ship commissionings etc. You must be on a special street, perhaps in Dalian City where a lot of the building and launching occurs and where such matters can be seen routinely. Otherwise knowledge of this stuff is pretty restricted while publicity is paltry.

Chinese people much prefer money be spent on economic development and security and on their own development and well being rather than being spent in Africa and the far reaches of Asia and on Naval ships, bombers and the like. Xi Jinpingpong is catching a lot of flack at home over his profligate ways of throwing money at fellow corrupt dictators abroad to include corrupt fellow authoritarians.

Jus sayin.
 
Chinese people on the street seem to be unusually well informed of their Naval ship program even though the CCP Boyz in Beijing don't often publish much about new ship commissionings etc. You must be on a special street, perhaps in Dalian City where a lot of the building and launching occurs and where such matters can be seen routinely. Otherwise knowledge of this stuff is pretty restricted while publicity is paltry.

Some data leaks are quite reliable, especially news from Chinese shipyards.

I'm going to assume they are moving to a high low force structure with the 055 being high end and the 052D/E taking over the anti-submarine role from the 054A frigates.

It seems like a strange move to me as the 052D's cost a lot more than the 054's, but perhaps the next gen frigate was getting too close to the destroyer in terms of cost without the advantages of its larger hull.
 
What is international law regarding hitting or ramming a US warship or to force it off course in the SCS?

IMO this is how it will start. They are spoiling for a fight.
 
What is international law regarding hitting or ramming a US warship or to force it off course in the SCS?

IMO this is how it will start. They are spoiling for a fight.

Same as it was with the USSR, in which such instances happened a few time
 
The huge photo at your link has your bomber flying past Scarborough Shoal in the EEZ of the Philippines off Luzon island which is home to Manila, the capital. Your bomber does not belong there thx anyway.


Why does it not belong there?

If it not closer than 12 NM it is international airspace, and has the same right to be there as US airplanes do 12 nm from Chinese territory
 
Some data leaks are quite reliable, especially news from Chinese shipyards.

I'm going to assume they are moving to a high low force structure with the 055 being high end and the 052D/E taking over the anti-submarine role from the 054A frigates.

It seems like a strange move to me as the 052D's cost a lot more than the 054's, but perhaps the next gen frigate was getting too close to the destroyer in terms of cost without the advantages of its larger hull.


Loose lips sink ships. :peace

Which is why CCP Boyz in Beijing definitely minimize news and information about their ship launches, construction, ship trials and the like. So as I'd said, if you're getting the word on the street as you say you are then you're on a pretty good street and in a very special place over there. I myself haven't any reason to doubt your own word.

Keeping us abreast is good and welcome so keep up the good work thx.

May I ask -- are you strictly a shipyard technocrat or do you get up into the realm of strategy. Inquiring minds want to know because there are immediate issues of strategy that navies and their gunboats are involved in. Such as Scarborough Shoal in the Philippines EEZ of the South China Sea. Scarborough is the place the Pentagon has told the Boyz not to build since 2012 or, well, it will be an otherwise avoidable unpleasant development or experience. So far so good while the immediate future continues to look promising from where I sit over here.

Then there's the Bashi Strait between Taiwan and the Phils which is the PLA Navy's only direct access route to the open western Pacific from the South China Sea. SecDef Jim Mattis and National Security Adviser John Bolton are arm in arm to establish a US naval and air base on Taiping island of Taiwan which is in the Strait. Taipei and Washington are discussing it so stay tuned thx.

Then there's the Miyako Strait between Okinawa and Taiwan that is the PLAN only direct access route to the open western Pacific from the east coast of China. If there's an emergency and Miyako is closed to PLAN transit then PLAN has to sail up between Korea, Japan and Russia, turn over the north of Japan to sail south again and into the Pacific. That is needless to say a circuitous and dangerous route for the PLAN if there's any kind of serious commotion that may occur in coming times.


China’s People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) on Sunday flew more than 40 aircraft through the Miyako Strait in the East China Sea, prompting the Japanese Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) to scramble a fighter in response. The Chinese aircraft flew on to the West Pacific.

The Chinese deployment was part of a “routine drill,” according to a spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Defense.

Shen Jinke, a PLAAF spokesperson, noted that the 40 aircraft were of “various types” and included H-6K bombers, Su-30 fighters, and air tankers. The drill involved the exercise of “reconnaissance and early warning, attacks on sea surface targets, and in-flight refueling to test the Air Force’s fighting capacity on the high seas.”


Running between Miyako Island and Okinawa Island in Japan’s Okinawa Prefecture, the Miyako Strait is just wide enough to accommodate an international waterway through Japan’s exclusive economic zone.

The Bashi Channel and Miyako Strait bear considerable strategic importance for the PLAAF and People’s Liberation Army-Navy (PLAN) as they permit China access to the Western Pacific beyond the first island chain, a set of islands running from the Kuril Islands in the Sea of Japan to the Philippines and Borneo.

In addition to recent PLAAF activity in the Bashi Channel and Miyako Strait, the PLAN and China Coast Guard have increased their activity in the East China Sea as well.


https://thediplomat.com/2016/09/eas...inese-air-force-conducts-miyako-strait-drill/


One hopes you're not shy about these thingys because DP is the welcoming place to be to discuss 'em. And sterile straightforward reports can get pretty stale pretty quickly if you know what I mean, and I'd like to be confident you do know.
 
Why does it not belong there?

If it not closer than 12 NM it is international airspace, and has the same right to be there as US airplanes do 12 nm from Chinese territory

Not so thx anyway.

Under the UN ICLOS a shoal has no territorial rights of any kind. A shoal has a 50 meter protection zone to prevent any of its rocks getting banged up against or built on by some aggressive and nasty foreign intruder. The CCP Boyz in Beijing come most immediately to mind thx again for reminding us.

Scarborough Shoal is by the ILOS included in the Philippines EEZ but that hasn't stopped Beijing taking possession of it and control over it. Kindly see the above in scrolling as to the only reason Beijing doesn't build on it -- the USN and USAF. CCP Boyz also do oil drilling in the Vietnam EEZ to the point of shooting at VN Coast Guard and civilian fishermen alike, no matter to 'em. The Boyz have had a "research ship" in the Malaysia EEZ for several years now despite objections by Kuala Lumpur.

The Boyz think the South China Sea is a Chinese Lake. This has brought the French Pacific Fleet into it just recently. Other developments include India-Japan-Australia joint naval exercises in the Sea. USA does Freedom of Navigation Ops to point out that the ILOS says artificial islands have no territorial jurisdiction or claim of exclusivity. The Boyz contradict this by saying illegally their artificial islands have a 12 mile zone to include the sky above each of 'em. USN and India with Japan have been doing naval exercises too just to make things more clear to everyone, if not Beijing. This year the Vinson Carrier Strike Force visited Cam Ranh Bay where Hanoi built a spanking new carrier dock and facility that Indian carriers will be visiting next year too. India drills for oil in the VN EEZ at the request of Hanoi while Beijing hollers against it.

In short, CCP Dictator-Tyrants in Beijing are the neighbors from hell. Ask any of the countries of the region who know it well from the past 2500 years of a bullying and overbearing China. China's neighbors won't have any more of it in this day and age of their prosperity and the reasonably democratic governments most of 'em have and enjoy.
 
China's J-10 boasting the latest WS10B engine with thrust vectoring showing off at the Zuhai air show.

https://twitter.com/dafengcao/status/1059644031364423682


Boyz in Beijing might consider inviting USAF Thunderbirds and USN Blue Angels to Zhuhai even if it might be for just one humbling time of humility. Oh that's right, the Chinese don't know humble or humility. I myself translate the Chinese name for China, Zhong Guo to mean Hubris. Indeed, the Hu, er, Chinese have spent the past 2500 years being overbearing throughout the region, grabby and arrogant.

Zhuhai is a fine seacoast city as I'm sure you'd confirm. I once ate two dozen oysters there in one afternoon at a fine restaurant overlooking the harbor. I walked it off on the harbor boardwalk with Chinese friends. Macau is a stone's throw across the Pearl River estuary of course.

Locals are not too keen however on all those PLA Air Force shows given the engine thunderings wake the dead. Not only does the racket rattle the stew in Zhuhai and Macau it also shatters the calm in closeby Hong Kong and Shenzhen adjacent to HKG. Rumor has it Vietnamese can hear 'em too down the coast on the South China Sea. That's where Beijing says Vietnam hasn't any territorial claim to VN waters. Beijing will tell you the sky belongs to 'em too and that when they're ready they'll grab it. Unless someone big stops 'em that is but that's another thread eh.

All this and more is despite the UN ICLOS and the ruling two years ago by the Court of Arbitration in The Hague that VN waters belong to VN. It wasn't a tough decision cause the Tribunal was unanimous on it. So VN has six new Russian Kilo class subs which have the Klub missile that can penetrate into the Chinese mainland. Plus OB in his last year gave Hanoi a discount catalogue to Pentagon platforms of intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance to identify poachers and shoo 'em away.
 
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