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Cancel Turkey’s F-35s — and Maybe Its NATO Membership As Well

Rogue Valley

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Cancel Turkey’s F-35s — and Maybe Its NATO Membership As Well

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7/13/18
Sending America’s most advanced fighters to Ankara will do greater harm than good to U.S. interests — and that should give its allies pause. Though the original intention was to strengthen the military capacity of an important ally, the planned sale of 100 of the jets to Turkey will only strengthen an increasingly autocratic regime. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has spent the two years since an attempted coup imprisoning tens of thousands of political opponents, muzzling the press, and expanding the scope of his own powers, culminating in his “reelection” and the elimination of any meaningful limits on how long he may retain his position. The European Union has already recognized the danger, hitting the brakes on talks about Turkey’s long-desired accession to the EU as Erdogan cracks down on political opponents. The United States and its other NATO allies should also be rethinking whether it makes sense for Turkey to remain a part of the alliance. Expelling Turkey from NATO is not a decision to be taken lightly. Not only has Turkey been an integral member of the alliance since joining in 1952, but given its location, analysts have long viewed Turkey as a strategically critical member of the NATO alliance. Turkey helps defend Europe’s southern flank and its bases have routinely provided the staging area for air strikes.

Given all this, many acknowledge Turkey’s recent troubles while arguing that the sale of 100 F-35s should go through. Sen. Ted Cruz, for example, opposes the effort by Sens. James Lankford, Jeanne Shaheen, and Thom Tillis to obstruct the sale, arguing that Turkey is a vital contributor to NATO and that the U.S. should not deny it security benefits. The reality, however, is that Turkey has already been moving closer to Russia while increasingly working at cross-purposes to NATO and the U.S. The most obvious evidence of this is in Syria. While the United States sees the Syrian Kurdish militias as an important ally in the fight against the Islamic State, Erdogan sees an existential threat to Turkish security. As a result, Ankara has been working with Moscow to fight the very rebels the United States has been backing. Turkey has also ordered a Russian missile defense system despite stern warnings from the State Department. Snce the Arab Spring, moreover, Turkey has given support to Islamist groups throughout the Middle East. In the end, an increasingly authoritarian and politically fragile ally that cozies up to Russia, works against the U.S. war on terror, and spreads extremist forms of Islam is not much of an ally. Turkey today certainly does not act like an ally that Americans would be willing to fight and die for as required by Article 5 of the NATO charter. And Turkey is certainly not an ally that deserves the highest level of access to advanced American weaponry.

I agree. I've had about as much of the Erdogan regime as I can stomach. The US should repatriate any of its nuclear warheads stored at Incirlik asap.
 
Since the Iraqi invasion the US has harboured anti Turkish terrorists in Iraq ( the PKK) and has paid zero attention to Turkish security interests. Why would Turkey pay any focus on US security interests when it's own and more valid interests are being ignored
 
Who needs a forward base exposing Russia's underbelly? It's not as if you'll ever want to atttack Trump's bestie, is it?
 
If they purchase the missile system, then cancel the F35's. From what I recall it, the missile system is not a done deal.

Turkey is gone. The sooner we realize/admit this truism the better. Erdogan has his own agenda - dictatorship - which is anathema to the core US/EU/NATO ideology.
 
The window is closing on the ability of this country to make a decisive move, but all such moves are horrible choices.
Make a move to cancel F-35's, Turkey moves closer to Russia and the purchase of Russian missile defense is a certainty, enriching Russia and irrevocably shutting the door on US alliances. From there, repatriation of nukes is a must-do move, and a sticky wicket.
Door sealed permanently, Turkey now decidedly on the side of Russia, fate sealed with theirs.

Offer up the F-35's, Turkey may still seek closer alliance with Russia, thus expanding Russian influence anyway.
Turkey might still seek Russian missile defense. Russian influence expanded, Russia wins again anyway.

Turkey has to decide who it is better off with, and I suspect its love of Russia may backfire when the chips fall against both nations, but that's only if we make the decision to stand firm against Russian hegemony and domination.
If we continue our current acquiescence and fealty to Russia, it will not benefit us in the long term, not in any way whatsoever.

I am open however, to arguments as to how it might, but for the time being I remain convinced otherwise.
 
Since the Iraqi invasion the US has harboured anti Turkish terrorists in Iraq ( the PKK) and has paid zero attention to Turkish security interests. Why would Turkey pay any focus on US security interests when it's own and more valid interests are being ignored

The YPG/YPJ are the Syrian Kurds. They have fought with US forces against ISIS since the siege of Kobani in 2014.

Never forget that Erdogan allowed tens of thousands of ISIS recruits from all over the world free transit through Turkey to Syria.
 
Turkey is gone. The sooner we realize/admit this truism the better. Erdogan has his own agenda - dictatorship - which is anathema to the core US/EU/NATO ideology.

And I think that the coming recession will cause turmoil in Turkey, but worse than what happened in Greece. If they purchases the Russian missile system, then cancel the F35. Eventually, and I think the next recession will occur in the next year or so, it will be similar to the Dirty 30's. He may end up hung from a lampost
 
And I think that the coming recession will cause turmoil in Turkey, but worse than what happened in Greece. If they purchases the Russian missile system, then cancel the F35. Eventually, and I think the next recession will occur in the next year or so, it will be similar to the Dirty 30's. He may end up hung from a lampost

Turkey's financial day of reckoning will be here shortly.....

https://www.debatepolitics.com/midd...-s-economy-looks-like-s-headed-big-crash.html
 
Cancel Turkey’s F-35s — and Maybe Its NATO Membership As Well

F-351.jpg




I agree. I've had about as much of the Erdogan regime as I can stomach. The US should repatriate any of its nuclear warheads stored at Incirlik asap.

If you and your cronies had any clue to begin with, you would know that Turkey allowed the US access to their air space when others would not.

This saved many American fighters lives.

And by the way...… your beloved Obama kept our planes there, and rightfully so. A good move on his part.
 
I agree. I've had about as much of the Erdogan regime as I can stomach. The US should repatriate any of its nuclear warheads stored at Incirlik asap.

I'm not one of his fans either, but let's go forward with the deal. Take his money and run. At any point in time, we can drop resupply of parts and he'll be sitting on white elephants. The maintenance on these monsters of the skies is ever demanding. Worse for him, the software upgrades are in Israel's hands. Anyone foolish enough to not understand that Israel has certainly placed its own backdoors in the software, is blowing smoke. There are good reasons why MS, Apple, Intel, AMD, Cisco, AT&T, Texas Instruments, and a myriad of other American tech giants have all built campuses in Israel. Not one has built anything worth mentioning in Turkey. Talent talks.

Erdogan has visions of a revitalized Ottoman Empire, a Turkish Caliphate with himself as Caliph. Kind of sounds like this former American enemy named Osama, now deceased. :) It is fun to watch our European "allies" scrabble for the crumbs falling from his tables. Trade with Europe is for who's benefit? Don't you love those European principles?

BTW, those nuclear assets we have at Incirlik are aging, undependable, and possibly more of a danger if they aren't removed for recycling than any launches. Turkey doesn't have the talent to deal with those problems, and Russia as its own issues with failing ancient nuclear munitions they are unable to deal with. We're in much of the same situation. Stuff you don't read about in the consciousless media.

Meh, boys will be boys, and they must have their toys. :)
 
Cancel Turkey’s F-35s — and Maybe Its NATO Membership As Well

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I agree. I've had about as much of the Erdogan regime as I can stomach. The US should repatriate any of its nuclear warheads stored at Incirlik asap.

Not withstanding the fact that the Turkish State has been antagonizing Greece (a NATO country which borders many other NATO countries, and buttresses the tail-end of the Balkan Peninsula of Southeastern Europe) in a number of ways, including violating its airspace like a hundred times in the past year alone. Not to mention Turkey has also illegally occupied North Cyprus since the 1970's, and should also disqualify it from NATO membership (seeing as how it is essentially occupying EU territory, it should have been ejected immediately after its Invasion of Cyprus on July 20th, 1974). What I would propose to make up for the vacuum formed by Turkey being banned from NATO, would be a U.S.-French-spearheaded militarization of the European Union. The EU military alliance would be the preeminent military force of NATO (besides the US), with a heavy presence in Cyprus - which would be admitted into NATO as well in place of Turkey. Some times you have to spank the child, and if Erdogan and the extremist-authoritarian regime in Turkey go unpunished much longer, I fear the worst.
 
Once we sell them to Erdogan, that technology is gone forever and can be reverse engineered by Russia or China.

Pretty sweet setup. Fly the American F-35s, track them with the Russian S-400s, and then sell the data to the highest bidder

IIRC, this is the Erdogan that let his security thugs beat up US citizens in Washington. He has no scruples.
 
If you and your cronies had any clue to begin with, you would know that Turkey allowed the US access to their air space when others would not.

Why am I not at all surprised that you support selling our technology to a Russia-friendly dictator?

Lol. Anyone to the far right and you're there faster than the Flash.
 
Why am I not at all surprised that you support selling our technology to a Russia-friendly dictator?

Lol. Anyone to the far right and you're there faster than the Flash.

Again......Turkey is one of the few countries that allowed Americans the air space to combat ISIS. Even Obama cut them the same slack given the situation.

You just went straight past stupid with me supporting Turkey's interactions with Russia.
 
Cancel Turkey’s F-35s — and Maybe Its NATO Membership As Well

F-351.jpg




I agree. I've had about as much of the Erdogan regime as I can stomach. The US should repatriate any of its nuclear warheads stored at Incirlik asap.

Them having the s-400 and the f-35 would not be much to fear except some scenarios.

1- the f-35 aint all it is cracked up to be and turkey having both could prove the russian systems could wipe it out of the sky.
2- the f-35 is all it is cracked up to be and the turkish use the s400 to help russia modify their platform to counter it.
3- turkey sends info on the jet directly to russia uncluding any technichal details they can find.

Truthfully given how much the us has blown a few gaskets over them buying the s-400, I would guess the f-35 is not all it is cracked up to be, and they do not want anything hurting sales, this would be especially true with it being an export sale, where the us is known for taking numerous features out for exports.
 
Turkey is gone. The sooner we realize/admit this truism the better. Erdogan has his own agenda - dictatorship - which is anathema to the core US/EU/NATO ideology.

Turkey should be kicked out of nato, not because of them working with russians, but because under erdogan they hold no loyalty. Russian seems to be friendly yet skeptical of them and for good reason, they are turning to russia based on their interests, and possible fears their nato euipment may have backdoors to shut them down if they invade other nato countries like greece. However I am sure russia and the eu and america have realized their allegience is based of convenience to their goals, they would probably backstab nato in a heartbeat, and likely do the same with russia, they work with whoever is most valuable towards their goals.

Given their previous invasions of cyrpus and the greek isles, greece being part of nato, I am not sure why they were not booted in the 70's.
 
All for kicking Turkey out of NATO.

Then kicking them out of Cyprus.
 
Turkey is gone. The sooner we realize/admit this truism the better. Erdogan has his own agenda - dictatorship - which is anathema to the core US/EU/NATO ideology.

Anything we give Erdogan will go to Vlad and Xi towards the final war. Both will continue to reverse engineer our tech, with the help of NK, which is rebuilding Syria’s chemical weapons and in league with Iran.

The India/Israel connection is the most intriguing to me, at this PMA, Present Moment of Awareness.
 
Anything we give Erdogan will go to Vlad and Xi towards the final war. Both will continue to reverse engineer our tech, with the help of NK, which is rebuilding Syria’s chemical weapons and in league with Iran.

The India/Israel connection is the most intriguing to me, at this PMA, Present Moment of Awareness.

Sorta makes letting them into NATO a mistake now dont it.

Seems like there should be accountability for mistakes.

NO?
 
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