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Female Ranger School student dropped for pregnancy

TheGoverness said:
Yeah, I can't find myself to care very much about this.
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apdst said:
You never served, so of course you don't.
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The you never served statement to a civilian is unacceptable. The military serves the society not the other way around. The society is superior to the military which means the military is subordinate to the society. A veteran or any active duty military personnel dismissing a valid comment by a civilian in the society is tantamount to rejection of civilian control of the military armed forces. Military service is unique, special, sacred and honorable. Inherent to it is respect of the views and opinions of the society in military matters, command decisions, programs, strategy, personnel decisions and so on. I happen to agree this item is not newsworthy. You have an opposite view which is fine. But you haven't any place trying to pull rank when the person outranks you simply on the strength of being a civilian in the society at large. Military-civil relations are precious so recognize the fact and respect it for the good of everyone, all sectors of the society and for the nation itself.
 
apdst said:
She'll miscarry before she completed the course, which means, she won't complete the course.
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She's taking leave from the course to have her baby. She might get another chance. She might not.

Even if she doesn't finish the course, she's still a highly qualified member of the military with a role to play.

There's nothing to see here.

The man shouldn't be washed out for making her pregnant. She shouldn't be castigated for getting pregnant. People have families while in the military. The military is dealing with this exactly as they should, balancing the needs of biology with the goal of promoting the advancement of good candidates, regardless of gender. This is a non-story.
 
Amelia said:
She's taking leave from the course to have her baby. She might get another chance. She might not.

Even if she doesn't finish the course, she's still a highly qualified member of the military with a role to play.

There's nothing to see here.

The man shouldn't be washed out for making her pregnant. She shouldn't be castigated for getting pregnant. People have families while in the military. The military is dealing with this exactly as they should, balancing the needs of biology with the goal of promoting the advancement of good candidates, regardless of gender. This is a non-story.
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She's undisciplined and unreliable. She can't avoid getting knocked for a training school. How's she going to conduct herself during a war? The Army spends millions to train her and she can't deploy because she's knocked up? Maybe she would be better off in a civilian job.
 
Tangmo said:
The you never served statement to a civilian is unacceptable. The military serves the society not the other way around. The society is superior to the military which means the military is subordinate to the society. A veteran or any active duty military personnel dismissing a valid comment by a civilian in the society is tantamount to rejection of civilian control of the military armed forces. Military service is unique, special, sacred and honorable. Inherent to it is respect of the views and opinions of the society in military matters, command decisions, programs, strategy, personnel decisions and so on. I happen to agree this item is not newsworthy. You have an opposite view which is fine. But you haven't any place trying to pull rank when the person outranks you simply on the strength of being a civilian in the society at large. Military-civil relations are precious so recognize the fact and respect it for the good of everyone, all sectors of the society and for the nation itself.
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Wrong.

The military does NOT "serve society". The military serves the Constitution and the superiors in the Chain of Command. That Chain of Command resides solely within the Executive Branch.

Your/society's input is limited to influencing the Commander in Chief (the President) and influencing the various Congressional oversight committees that affect the Department of Defense. Soldiers owe you NO consideration whatsoever.

Now...if a soldier or veteran dismisses your nonsense because you've never served, you should take that as an indication that you should educate yourself on their point of view.
 
Tangmo said:
The you never served statement to a civilian is unacceptable. The military serves the society not the other way around. The society is superior to the military which means the military is subordinate to the society. A veteran or any active duty military personnel dismissing a valid comment by a civilian in the society is tantamount to rejection of civilian control of the military armed forces. Military service is unique, special, sacred and honorable. Inherent to it is respect of the views and opinions of the society in military matters, command decisions, programs, strategy, personnel decisions and so on. I happen to agree this item is not newsworthy. You have an opposite view which is fine. But you haven't any place trying to pull rank when the person outranks you simply on the strength of being a civilian in the society at large. Military-civil relations are precious so recognize the fact and respect it for the good of everyone, all sectors of the society and for the nation itself.
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To point out that civilian doesn't get because she never served is simply pointing a fact.
 
apdst said:
She's undisciplined and unreliable. She can't avoid getting knocked for a training school. How's she going to conduct herself during a war? The Army spends millions to train her and she can't deploy because she's knocked up? Maybe she would be better off in a civilian job.
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I suggest that you sit right down and pen a tersely worded letter to her, expressing your dissatisfaction with her lack of reliability.

I also suggest using REALLY big letters in VERY short sentences.
 
apdst said:
She should have disciplined enough to avoid getting pregnant. She's trying to become a member of one of the most elite infantry regiments in the world. She needs to act like it.
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Obviously the solution is to only allow gay men and lesbian women to serve that way there is little chance of them getting pregnant or impregnating someone.
 
apdst said:
She's undisciplined and unreliable. She can't avoid getting knocked for a training school. How's she going to conduct herself during a war? The Army spends millions to train her and she can't deploy because she's knocked up? Maybe she would be better off in a civilian job.
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So women should avoid getting pregnant during their whole time in the military?

Sorry. Nope. They get to have a military career and a family.

And there's nothing wrong with that.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Obviously the solution is to only allow gay men and lesbian women to serve that way there is little chance of them getting pregnant or impregnating someone.
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Good answer!
 
apdst said:
You don't get recycled in Ranger school.
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They absolutely do recycle people in Ranger School. At least they did for the entirety of my 20 years in the Army. We even had a nickname for the platoon recycled students are held in until the next class starts: the Gulag.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
They absolutely do recycle people in Ranger School. At least they did for the entirety of my 20 years in the Army. We even had a nickname for the platoon recycled students are held in until the next class starts: the Gulag.
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It wasn’t Ranger School by any means; in Basic Training we looked for recreational activities on the weekends after we were released from the first few weeks of isolation. We could buy 3.2 beer, get a newspaper and generally do whatever that didn’t get us in trouble. A few guys from our platoon would try to get pick-up football games going, (tackle.) As we ran into other groups that were close to graduation, they wouldn’t play. When we got within two weeks of completion, we also declined invitations so we would not be ‘recycled.’
 
Skeptic Bob said:
They absolutely do recycle people in Ranger School. At least they did for the entirety of my 20 years in the Army. We even had a nickname for the platoon recycled students are held in until the next class starts: the Gulag.
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No, you pass, or fail and if you fail you put in another request, depending on if you've been barred from attending the course. Ranger school is a voluntary course. They don't make you stay until you complete it.
 
Amelia said:
So women should avoid getting pregnant during their whole time in the military?

Sorry. Nope. They get to have a military career and a family.

And there's nothing wrong with that.
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Females shouldn't be allowed to go to Ranger school.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Obviously the solution is to only allow gay men and lesbian women to serve that way there is little chance of them getting pregnant or impregnating someone.
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Make it a male only course.
 
apdst said:
No, you pass, or fail and if you fail you put in another request, depending on if you've been barred from attending the course. Ranger school is a voluntary course. They don't make you stay until you complete it.
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I'm assuming you never went Ranger because that's not true at all. A third of the candidates repeat at least one phase. Over a dozen repeat the course entirely in a single year.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I'm assuming you never went Ranger because that's not true at all. A third of the candidates repeat at least one phase. Over a dozen repeat the course entirely in a single year.
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Repeating the course isn't the same thing as being recycled.
 
apdst said:
No, you pass, or fail and if you fail you put in another request, depending on if you've been barred from attending the course. Ranger school is a voluntary course. They don't make you stay until you complete it.
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Of course it is voluntary and you can leave whenever you want. But “recycling” in military parlance is when you get held back or sent back to an earlier part of the class due to any number of reasons from medical, failing portions, or even minor disciplinary issues. Recycled students aren’t sent back to their unit where they reapply to the school, get accepted again and go back. That scenario, which you seem to be referring to, is not called recycling. It is called washing out or just plain failing. Recycling is done right then and there at the school, thus extending your time at the school significantly.

But don’t take MY word for it.
Approximately 34 percent of students who enter Ranger School recycle at least one phase of the course," said Col. David Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade, in a statement to Army Times.
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https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...-school-many-do-overs-rare-not-unprecedented/
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Of course it is voluntary and you can leave whenever you want. But “recycling” in military parlance is when you get held back or sent back to an earlier part of the class due to any number of reasons from medical, failing portions, or even minor disciplinary issues. Recycled students aren’t sent back to their unit where they reapply to the school, get accepted again and go back. That scenario, which you seem to be referring to, is not called recycling. It is called washing out or just plain failing. Recycling is done right then and there at the school, thus extending your time at the school significantly.

But don’t take MY word for it.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...-school-many-do-overs-rare-not-unprecedented/
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"Recycle" in military parlance means you were made to repeat the course.
 
apdst said:
"Recycle" in military parlance means you were made to repeat the course.
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You are good at bobbing and weaving, I’ll give you that. Just give me a straight forward explanation of how you reconcile these two statements, one by you and one by the previous commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade.

apdst said:
You don't get recycled in Ranger school.
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"Approximately 34 percent of students who enter Ranger School recycle at least one phase of the course," said Col. David Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade, in a statement to Army Times.
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Come on brother, you can do it. The words you are looking for are “I stand corrected”. I say it all the time when I am wrong. It doesn’t hurt, I swear. ;)
 
Skeptic Bob said:
You are good at bobbing and weaving, I’ll give you that. Just give me a straight forward explanation of how you reconcile these two statements, one by you and one by the previous commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade.





Come on brother, you can do it. The words you are looking for are “I stand corrected”. I say it all the time when I am wrong. It doesn’t hurt, I swear. ;)
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When I was in the service "recycle" meant you were made to repeat a course. We never applied the term to someone voluntarily repeating a course.
 
apdst said:
Females shouldn't be allowed to go to Ranger school.
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Ah, now we get to the crux of your objection.

Doesn't matter if she used birth control or was celibate. You don't care how responsible she was or wasn't. You just don't want her there at all.


Too bad. She is on the leadership track and the military is making accommodations for nature and not treating being female as a disease. Sorry you don't like it.


:shrug:
 
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