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Air combat drones have been developed

late

late

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"Defense company Kratos has announced that it will show two low-cost combat drones at the Paris Air Show next week, offering an insight as to what military conflicts might look like in the foreseeable future – a manned combat jet leading dozens of 1,000 km/h lethally-armed unmanned companions."

Being a combat pilot is about to get a lot more dangerous.



https://newatlas.com/kratos-valkyrie-mako-combat-drones-paris/50044/
 
The days of combat pilots are numbered anyway. It will eventually all be unmanned.
 
Joe Haldeman gave a pretty vivid imagining of this sort of thing (mainy as remote robotic ground troops) in Forever Peace and speculated it would drive the operators insane, and was be more likely to be used against third world guerrillas than similarly equipped militaries, which is certainly true enough with current warfare.

A fully coordinated, droned-up military would be at least as big a deterrent as nukes, and probably much larger, as we wouldn't be as shy about using it.
 
WillyPete said:
Joe Haldeman gave a pretty vivid imagining of this sort of thing (mainy as remote robotic ground troops) in Forever Peace and speculated it would drive the operators insane, and was be more likely to be used against third world guerrillas than similarly equipped militaries, which is certainly true enough with current warfare.

A fully coordinated, droned-up military would be at least as big a deterrent as nukes, and probably much larger, as we wouldn't be as shy about using it.
Click to expand...

I loved Forever War.

https://www.amazon.com/Forever-War-...F8&qid=1526591186&sr=8-1&keywords=forever+war
 
The future of war is various forms of robotics imbued with AI.

There is going to come a point in which battles/war transpire far too fast for humans to be prominent in the command loop.
 
late said:
"Defense company Kratos has announced that it will show two low-cost combat drones at the Paris Air Show next week, offering an insight as to what military conflicts might look like in the foreseeable future – a manned combat jet leading dozens of 1,000 km/h lethally-armed unmanned companions."

Being a combat pilot is about to get a lot more dangerous.



https://newatlas.com/kratos-valkyrie-mako-combat-drones-paris/50044/
Click to expand...

I can see fighters with a crew of three to handle everything as back-up for AI.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The future of war is various forms of robotics imbued with AI.

There is going to come a point in which battles/war transpire far too fast for humans to be prominent in the command loop.
Click to expand...

Funny. In WW2 we were putting out “victory ships” by the dozens. In WW3 it will be “victory drones”.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The future of war is various forms of robotics imbued with AI.

There is going to come a point in which battles/war transpire far too fast for humans to be prominent in the command loop.
Click to expand...

Presumably that means there won't be many wars once that becomes the norm, if the 3rd world can't compete at that level and 1st world nations deter each other.

I suppose private warfare could be a growing threat, since the logistics are simpler, and there'd be (potentially) very few human witnesses left alive.

Maybe I shouldn't be hoping they solve the battery issue, after all.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The future of war is various forms of robotics imbued with AI.

There is going to come a point in which battles/war transpire far too fast for humans to be prominent in the command loop.
Click to expand...

And at that point the winner will always be the side who is best at playing video games and willing to spend the most money.
 
WillyPete said:
Presumably that means there won't be many wars once that becomes the norm, if the 3rd world can't compete at that level and 1st world nations deter each other.

I suppose private warfare could be a growing threat, since the logistics are simpler, and there'd be (potentially) very few human witnesses left alive.

Maybe I shouldn't be hoping they solve the battery issue, after all.
Click to expand...

Actually, the proliferation of robotics imbued with AI will cause the weapons gap between 1st and 3rd world nations to diminish at a much faster rate.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Actually, the proliferation of robotics imbued with AI will cause the weapons gap between 1st and 3rd world nations to diminish at a much faster rate.
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I must be missing something.

How will the 3rd world afford shiny new robots coordinated by AI, when they presently rely on hand me downs?
 
Skeptic Bob said:
And at that point the winner will always be the side who is best at playing video games and willing to spend the most money.
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Ultimately the winner will be who c an hack this stuff and turn an enemy army against itself
 
late said:
"Defense company Kratos has announced that it will show two low-cost combat drones at the Paris Air Show next week, offering an insight as to what military conflicts might look like in the foreseeable future – a manned combat jet leading dozens of 1,000 km/h lethally-armed unmanned companions."

Being a combat pilot is about to get a lot more dangerous.



https://newatlas.com/kratos-valkyrie-mako-combat-drones-paris/50044/
Click to expand...

I doubt they will take over air warfare unless they find a way to make them immune to electronic warfare. As was found out in syria, even americas most advanced drones can be crippled by electronic warfare, as they are guided externally rather than internally, a fighter or a bomber or a multi role jet can function even without radar and guidance systems, but with much reduced functionality, like raday may be useless altogether, missiles may fire but may become unguided dumb missiles etc. This is still leaps and bounds better than a drone flying army that could be shut down from the people flying it remotely, put simply if it was that simple every army on earth would have done it, however people seem to jump the gun and not think about what counters drones.


Electronic warfare weapons are simple, the most basic is a microwave turned inside out and it is called a herf gun, rednecks all over america make them, the us militaries duke system is not much more than an amplified version of this, but it works quite well at stopping remote detonated ied's by disrupting the remote signal. Now add in russian ew systems, russia systems probably use less tech than americas on ew, but have so far in syria proven to be vastly more effective. I will tell you why, american systems like to target what they expect the enemy to use, while russian systems overload everything under the sun, including civilian systems and often times their own gear. The reality being russian will jam everything from gps to radio to anything else they can think of, through saturation, meaning they send so many random signals across all frequencies digital and analog that the machine relying on them has no idea what is going on or where it is.
 
WillyPete said:
I must be missing something.

How will the 3rd world afford shiny new robots coordinated by AI, when they presently rely on hand me downs?
Click to expand...

Depending on the route they go, but if mass produced per unit costs can be dropped dramatically. Most of the parts and software are pretty ubiquitous now.
 
WillyPete said:
I must be missing something.

How will the 3rd world afford shiny new robots coordinated by AI, when they presently rely on hand me downs?
Click to expand...

One of if not the most experience drone operating countries is iran, probably considered the third world. Long before america was using drones daily, iran was already highly experienced in using them, I have not heard of them using armed drones but that is easy modification for a country that has been making them for decades.

Infact being the third world well depending on what you call third world might have played a role in their drone program, after the shah was overhtrown, buying spyplanes from america was out of the question, and the mig25 which was awesome as a spyplane and as an interceptor and horrible at everything else jet related was probably out of irans budget, while building drones was cheap and drones getting lost or being destroyed hurt their wallet far less than let's say a bunch of mig 25's that could multiple times as much and could easily be lost by any pilot untrained, as well as the fact top speed on a mig25 was for intercept and escape only, also meaning some untrained moron would push it to speed levels of an sr71 blackbird, which the jet could do but not without serious engine damage.


Given their options I see drones if not being an effective force to first world but atleast being cost effective for their needs, and any third world country can build drones if iran could for decades. Also at 3 million per drone that is not too bad, buying jets from the cheapest suppliers russia and france(russian jets lately have been getting pricey, as have french ones)mseems to be far more expensive for a mainline weapon especially one used where you know it will be shot down. Imagine it like tomohawk cruise missiles for the third world, expensive but still cheaper than losing real gear.
 
beerftw said:
One of if not the most experience drone operating countries is iran, probably considered the third world. Long before america was using drones daily, iran was already highly experienced in using them, I have not heard of them using armed drones but that is easy modification for a country that has been making them for decades.

Infact being the third world well depending on what you call third world might have played a role in their drone program, after the shah was overhtrown, buying spyplanes from america was out of the question, and the mig25 which was awesome as a spyplane and as an interceptor and horrible at everything else jet related was probably out of irans budget, while building drones was cheap and drones getting lost or being destroyed hurt their wallet far less than let's say a bunch of mig 25's that could multiple times as much and could easily be lost by any pilot untrained, as well as the fact top speed on a mig25 was for intercept and escape only, also meaning some untrained moron would push it to speed levels of an sr71 blackbird, which the jet could do but not without serious engine damage.

Given their options I see drones if not being an effective force to first world but atleast being cost effective for their needs, and any third world country can build drones if iran could for decades. Also at 3 million per drone that is not too bad, buying jets from the cheapest suppliers russia and france(russian jets lately have been getting pricey, as have french ones)mseems to be far more expensive for a mainline weapon especially one used where you know it will be shot down. Imagine it like tomohawk cruise missiles for the third world, expensive but still cheaper than losing real gear.
Click to expand...

I was responding to the idea that the advent of combat drones directed by AI was going to narrow the gap between first world and third world militaries.

I have no doubt that all sorts of nations of all sizes and development levels will come up with all sorts of creative and destructive uses for drones, and AI will only make that easier.

That said, I still don't see how it will do anything except make the "have/have not" gap in military power wider.

The nations that can afford them (and have access to them) will have a clear edge and plenty of motivation to make sure it's a small club (just like nukes.)
 
WillyPete said:
I was responding to the idea that the advent of combat drones directed by AI was going to narrow the gap between first world and third world militaries.

I have no doubt that all sorts of nations of all sizes and development levels will come up with all sorts of creative and destructive uses for drones, and AI will only make that easier.

That said, I still don't see how it will do anything except make the "have/have not" gap in military power wider.

The nations that can afford them (and have access to them) will have a clear edge and plenty of motivation to make sure it's a small club (just like nukes.)
Click to expand...

Proliferation and/or reverse engineering.

The days when US scientists were unique are gone. Foreigners from all nations graduate from US universities.
 
beerftw said:
I doubt they will take over air warfare unless they find a way to make them immune to electronic warfare. As was found out in Syria, even Americas most advanced drones can be crippled by electronic warfare, as they are guided externally rather than internally
Click to expand...

First time anyone anywhere gets serious, the gloves come off.
 
WillyPete said:
I must be missing something.

How will the 3rd world afford shiny new robots coordinated by AI, when they presently rely on hand me downs?
Click to expand...

Who says they need to be shiny & new? I posted a story 3-4 years ago on these forums about a joint British / French Air Combat Drone and that story had a footnote about cheaper alternatives being equipping existing aircraft with AI.

Most existing aircraft can already pull amazing G and manoeuvres which humans can't keep up with - in 5-10 years, put an AI "brain" in there and you have an advanced combat plane that an ordinary pilot couldn't keep up with.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Who says they need to be shiny & new? I posted a story 3-4 years ago on these forums about a joint British / French Air Combat Drone and that story had a footnote about cheaper alternatives being equipping existing aircraft with AI.

Most existing aircraft can already pull amazing G and manoeuvres which humans can't keep up with - in 5-10 years, put an AI "brain" in there and you have an advanced combat plane that an ordinary pilot couldn't keep up with.
Click to expand...

Interesting and it makes sense, though performance would likely lag behind a purpose made aircraft, but consider many smaller nations depend on their donor nation for spare parts.

They simply can't field these in significant enough numbers to confront 1st wold militaries. They'll just get swamped by the numbers. They know that better than I do, so they'd avoid the conflict in the first place.

Just like Finland vs. Russia, fighting smarter and better didn't allow them to win against overwhelming force.
 
WillyPete said:
~ They simply can't field these in significant enough numbers to confront 1st wold militaries ~
Click to expand...

True, but a 3rd world country would still be able to afford AI for older airplanes: the comment you originally made was about simply being able to afford any and that was what I was responding to. Far cheaper than paying for expensive pilot training.
 
You've got countries that want, and need, to upgrade their military but have limited funds.

That demand will create the market, and sooner than you think.

They won't be as fancy as what we have, but they will be a huge improvement in a lot of countries.

Our carriers are reasonably well protected. But what if China throws ten waves of autonomous drones, a hundred in each wave. At some point, ammo runs out, guns jam, mistakes get made. Cheap at twice the price, as the saying goes.
 
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