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If War Comes, Russia Could Disconnect from the Internet. Yes, the Entire Country

humbolt said:
If Russia is as ready as they claim, we could just disconnect them now and see how that works out for them.
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I'm a liberal, and I approve this message.
Yes, why wait for Putin to decide whether or not Russia is ready? If it's a CIA project, then by all means he shouldn't waste another precious second.

We should help Putin as much as possible with his internal system and make Russia's intranet a reality.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I'm a liberal, and I approve this message.
Yes, why wait for Putin to decide whether or not Russia is ready? If it's a CIA project, then by all means he shouldn't waste another precious second.

We should help Putin as much as possible with his internal system and make Russia's intranet a reality.
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Heh. Putin's been doing a lot of bragging lately. An election is coming up soon, and he'd like to secure 120% of the vote.
 
humbolt said:
Heh. Putin's been doing a lot of bragging lately. An election is coming up soon, and he'd like to secure 120% of the vote.
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No war needed, let's just test his project.
Do we need Russians having access to the internet?
How about OUR internet? Do we really need Russians having access to OUR US internet?
What are we gaining by allowing them access to our domestic digital infrastructure?
I don't really see much of anything.
Oh, so we won't be able to order vodka and caviar online anymore, boo hoo.
And there go all those hot Russian mail order brides.
Awww snap.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
No war needed, let's just test his project.
Do we need Russians having access to the internet?
How about OUR internet? Do we really need Russians having access to OUR US internet?
What are we gaining by allowing them access to our domestic digital infrastructure?
I don't really see much of anything.
Oh, so we won't be able to order vodka and caviar online anymore, boo hoo.
And there go all those hot Russian mail order brides.
Awww snap.
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I'm not entirely serious, but I'm tired of Puntin's chest thumping. Besides, one on one I think I can take him. He looks a little saggy in the wrong spots.
 
I'm totally serious.
I am in favor of a kind of merit system.
If a country wants full access to our digital neighborhood, it needs to be based on some kind of merit.
Revocation of those access privileges should also be based on merit.
 
Evilroddy said:
Tigerace117:

The same analysis applies to America and the West, which have been routinely conducting acts of aggression against Russia and its allies since the end of the Cold War. The argument then pivots to a chicken and egg debate in an effort to determine which power started the tit for tat acts of aggression between Russia and America/the West. From Yugoslavia to Syria, America has been trying to dismantle Russian influence and power abroad and to undermine the Russian state domestically. This has unfolded while America has been trying to encircle both Russia and more generally Eurasia with a network of concentric and radiating belts of overt and covert military infrastructure and military power projection for the last 75 years, in order to protect American global hegemony and to suppress Russian/Chinese/Eurasian opportunities, interests and power in the wider world.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Enter me as a yes and tick the 'more' box for me thx.

Putin is a KGB guy who brought a swarm of KGB and GRU into the goverment across the board, not only in intelligence and espionage. Their presence or influence continues going on 20 years later. Russian society, culture, politics has 1000 years of Czarism, a hundred years of Leninism, Stalinism and now Putin. Although the American born Russophiles like it and they want it, it's a no sale in my book. A non-starter.
 
HowardBThiname said:
An elected president is the pinnacle of democracy. If Russia ever actually does what we did in Ukraine -- if Russia funds a resistance to actually overthrow a sitting US president, then we'll have the right to move against Putin decisively. But understand -- that's why he's playing with us, and that's why the Crimea seceded -- we have a new little cold war thanks to Obama.

Now, you act as if you want a full-blown nuclear war against Russia. WTF? That's nuts. We need to apologize to the Ukraine and the Crimea for the crap Obama pulled and then we need to find a way to agree to stop meddling in the other country's business. We don't need this crap, and we don't need jingoists like you trying to start wars.
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An “elected” president who runs his country into the ground is not going to stay in power, and indeed didn’t. And no, seeing as the Ukraine is not a part of Russia, Russia funding an insurgency in the US is not the same thing as the US recognizing the people who tossed a corrupt politician off his pedestal.

The Crimea seceded because Putin needed a big win to make his ultranationalist base happy. Carving off chunks of Ukraine does tha.

Funny how showing even the slightest bit of backbone in your mean means automatic nuclear war. History shows that appeasing totalitarian regimes only ensures war in the long run; the dictator reaches the point where he reaches for too much, goes sailing over the live, and then the world has to deal with the consequences.

Yes, let’s apologize to the Ukrainians for not letting them stay under a man who makes Illinois politicians look honest, and then apologize to the Crimea for protesting when Russia carved them off. Brilliant....not:roll:

I know right? It’s so frustrating watching the US keep thugs and tyrants from doing whatever they want. Such “meddling”. :roll:
 
Evilroddy said:
Tigerace117:

The western motives for interference and aggression in Russian and Eurasian affairs do not nullify that such interference and aggression actually occurred and still exist today. You declaim the Serbs, and rightly so, but perhaps you also conveniently discount the crimes of the Croatians, the Bosnians and the Albanians during and after the Yugoslavian Civil War, while you justify Western intervention and the use of military force on local and small powers in the rump of Europe. The notion that Western militarism is moral is a false notion as it is just as based on interests and realpolitik as Russian, Chinese, and Eurasian actions. The military and economic encirclement of Russia and more widely Eurasia, from the Baltic to the Pacific, is real Western/Anglo-American policy and no amount of moralising or blameshifting will change that.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Russian and Chinese endeavors are constantly targeted at harming the national security of the United States or its allies; as a result the United States has every reason to pay attention to such schemes, and to “thwart” them when they threaten the US or US allies.

The Serbs and ethnic Serbian groups within those countries committed the vast majority of the war crimes during the Yugoslav Wars; commit the lion’s share of the crimes and you get the lion’s share of the blame. If the Serbs didn’t want to get bombed they shouldn’t have started murdering civilians.

Oh really? Kicking the Taliban out of power seems pretty moral to me. Kicking Saddam out of power was moral. Stopping the massacres in Serbia was moral. Helping countries across the 3rd World fight terrorists is moral.

Russia brought the situation upon themselves by oppressing their neighbors for decades. The Chinese have done the same. Is it any wonder their neighbors aren’t interesting in putting up with it anymore?
 
In the early days of The Internet, there was a thing called "Internet Death" reserved for bad behavior.
This was usually just for nodes that sent continuous streams of bad packets, like a Denial Of Service attack. But Russia as an entire country can be held responsible when government-sponsored hackers do the stuff they have been doing.

Sentence them to Internet Death for a year, and see if they can reform their ways. Maybe that would hurt enough for them to depose their President for Life and play nice again.

I wish I knew more about IPv6 to understand how it parses internet addresses, but from what little I can gather, apparently it has no trouble rinsing out the spoofs and getting down to the nitty gritty, or would have no trouble if we weren't still so dependent upon IPv4, as I still see all those IPv4 addresses being used today.

Is it like a phone company still catering to rotary dial?
Most of them still do, you know. You still CAN connect an old rotary dial phone and make calls.

I think it is time we updated all the patches and started being 100% exclusive with IPv6 addresses. From what I heard, there's enough of them available to give a unique address to every single blade of grass on the planet with a few thousand trillion left over for every single computing device and every living being with a few thousand trillion left over after that. Am I right?

So it shouldn't be all that difficult to rinse out the subterfuge coming from the Russians, but we're going to have to make some sacrifices over here, namely we have to completely do away with IPv4 altogether.
And the notion of a one hundred percent anonymous internet is bull**** anyway, and has been for quite some time, so let's all admit the ugly truth and move on because we're not going to be able to put that toothpaste back into the tube, even if all of us wanted to. It's over, that ship sailed eons ago.
So, now that we all know that it's out of the tube, acknowledge and use it to gain knowledge about which foreign powers are out and about on our internet.

If they want in, in to our digital infrastructure here in the USA, they're going to need to take their shoes off and submit to a nice TSA pat-down search.
 
HowardBThiname said:
We just need to make getting along with one another a priority. All this war posturing is unwise. Yes, a hacker can shut down a grid -- but -- not the entire grid, and can get it back up rather quickly, but with all the money that moves digitally these days, taking out our internet capabilities, which Russia can do if it goes after the network of undersea cables -- we're in a world of hurt.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...o-nato-countries-british-military-chief-warns
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tell me more about what the relationship between the United States and Russia looks like going forward, in your opinion. also, do you have a critique of Putin's presidency?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
No war needed, let's just test his project.
Do we need Russians having access to the internet?
How about OUR internet? Do we really need Russians having access to OUR US internet?
What are we gaining by allowing them access to our domestic digital infrastructure?
I don't really see much of anything.
Oh, so we won't be able to order vodka and caviar online anymore, boo hoo.
And there go all those hot Russian mail order brides.
Awww snap.
Click to expand...

As much as I oppose Putin ideologically, doing so without dialogue with the Russian government and diplomatic organs first and absolutely foremost would be incredibly shortsighted and unintelligent. Once they realized their cybersecurity had been attacked, you really think they'd just sit around and point fingers and bicker like schoolchildren like us Americans did on 2016? Ha...haha...ha...
 
Tigerace117 said:
An “elected” president who runs his country into the ground is not going to stay in power, and indeed didn’t. And no, seeing as the Ukraine is not a part of Russia, Russia funding an insurgency in the US is not the same thing as the US recognizing the people who tossed a corrupt politician off his pedestal.

The Crimea seceded because Putin needed a big win to make his ultranationalist base happy. Carving off chunks of Ukraine does tha.
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Wrong. The Crimea seceded (95% of Crimeans voted to secede) because the US and the EU funded the rebels who threw the elected Ukrainian President out of power. We did that. That's meddling on a scale Russia hasn't even come close to.

Funny how showing even the slightest bit of backbone in your mean means automatic nuclear war. History shows that appeasing totalitarian regimes only ensures war in the long run; the dictator reaches the point where he reaches for too much, goes sailing over the live, and then the world has to deal with the consequences.
Click to expand...

Showing "backbone" has nothing to do with it -- you're itching for a war.

Yes, let’s apologize to the Ukrainians for not letting them stay under a man who makes Illinois politicians look honest, and then apologize to the Crimea for protesting when Russia carved them off. Brilliant....not:roll:
Click to expand...

How was the choice of the Ukrainian president our business? Why did we step in a choose sides? Why not just allow democracy to take place and allow the people to elect the one they wanted? They wanted Victor -- they voted for him. We made a HUGE error there.

I know right? It’s so frustrating watching the US keep thugs and tyrants from doing whatever they want. Such “meddling”. :roll:
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Wow --- with an agenda like that -- we can only hope that you never get into a position whereby you have the means to control foreign policy. Very Nixon-like of you.
 
Helix said:
tell me more about what the relationship between the United States and Russia looks like going forward, in your opinion. also, do you have a critique of Putin's presidency?
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I hope we can mend fences. For all intents and purposes, Putin is our enemy, but he was much less of a threat to us before we meddled in ousting an elected Ukrainian president, which resulted in Crimea seceding. Because of that, Russia gained an important military objective, one that gives Russia much more strength -- one that makes Russia more dangerous. War could break out in Eastern Ukraine any time (it's boiling, there) and that could prompt us to take military action, because we vowed not to allow the USSR to ever regain as much control as it once had.

Going forward, I think we need to acknowledge the role we played in the fiasco -- apologize -- and then try to seek common ground. We're poking a hornet's nest over there and it's not going to end well if we don't stop.
 
HowardBThiname said:
I hope we can mend fences. For all intents and purposes, Putin is our enemy, but he was much less of a threat to us before we meddled in ousting an elected Ukrainian president, which resulted in Crimea seceding. Because of that, Russia gained an important military objective, one that gives Russia much more strength -- one that makes Russia more dangerous. War could break out in Eastern Ukraine any time (it's boiling, there) and that could prompt us to take military action, because we vowed not to allow the USSR to ever regain as much control as it once had.

Going forward, I think we need to acknowledge the role we played in the fiasco -- apologize -- and then try to seek common ground. We're poking a hornet's nest over there and it's not going to end well if we don't stop.
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i think that war with Russia is a bad idea. however, i wanted to hear your critique of Putin's leadership. he has basically made himself president for life now, which is not in line with American values.
 
humbolt said:
Heh. Putin's been doing a lot of bragging lately. An election is coming up soon, and he'd like to secure 120% of the vote.
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Indeed and Trump still can't get 51%. Trump never will either.

So it's no surprise if we find Trump taking the Putin route to elections.

While Putin doesn't need an electoral college Trump does. At least for the present time. Putin and Wikileaks want to fix that for their purposes over there. American born Russophiles like it too.
 
Helix said:
i think that war with Russia is a bad idea. however, i wanted to hear your critique of Putin's leadership. he has basically made himself president for life now, which is not in line with American values.
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Let's first be clear on what he said -- he said, ""I have not yet decided yet whether I will leave the post of the president or not."

Under Russian law, Putin is up for election this year -- in just a week, actually -- and if he wins then he can legally serve one more six-year term before he's not allowed to run again. After that, he'd have to sit out a term before he could run again, so, it's really up to the Russian people, and he enjoys widespread popularity there, despite the fact the West doesn't care too much for him. So, the "for life" thing isn't accurate.

What do I think of him? I think he's smart. I think he's shrewd. I think he views the United States as an enemy, but he knows launching a military attack would seal his nation's fate, so he's unlikely to do that. I think he's much more likely to use diplomacy to get his way, like he did in Egypt when Obama demanded that the Muslim Brotherhood have a seat at the election decision-making table, and Morsi was elected to the dismay of all -- Obama stood firmly behind Morsi, even after the military overthrew him and said the US would withdraw military aid from Egypt. Putin jumped right in and offered that aid - and Egypt (diplomatically) moved away from the US and toward Russia. That's how Putin operates, he waits until we f-up and then he swoops in and picks up the pieces, and every single time we f-up, he seems to gain.

Same thing in happened in Syria. Obama and David Cameron tried to get support to attack Syria - the Brits shut Cameron down very quickly, Congress here did the same to Obama, then Putin moves in and makes a "peaceful deal" to get Syria to give up its chemical weapons. Putin made Cameron and Obama look very small and inefectual, but that's how he works.

Same thing in the Ukraine. We fund the ouster of an elected President, the Crimeans become furious, and Putin takes the opportunity to allow the Crimeans to vote to secede (which they did at more than 95%) and Putinswoops in to rescue (and annex) them.

What we know is that our stupidity was a forerunner of all of Putin's little victories -- so -- first things first -- we quit being stupid. Second, we try to emulate Reagan and make peace with Russia.

Putin is a force to be reckoned with, for sure, but he's not unbeatable. And, this "for life" thing is just media emotionalism, as it's not based in fact.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Let's first be clear on what he said -- he said, ""I have not yet decided yet whether I will leave the post of the president or not."

Under Russian law, Putin is up for election this year -- in just a week, actually -- and if he wins then he can legally serve one more six-year term before he's not allowed to run again. After that, he'd have to sit out a term before he could run again, so, it's really up to the Russian people, and he enjoys widespread popularity there, despite the fact the West doesn't care too much for him. So, the "for life" thing isn't accurate.

What do I think of him? I think he's smart. I think he's shrewd. I think he views the United States as an enemy, but he knows launching a military attack would seal his nation's fate, so he's unlikely to do that. I think he's much more likely to use diplomacy to get his way, like he did in Egypt when Obama demanded that the Muslim Brotherhood have a seat at the election decision-making table, and Morsi was elected to the dismay of all -- Obama stood firmly behind Morsi, even after the military overthrew him and said the US would withdraw military aid from Egypt. Putin jumped right in and offered that aid - and Egypt (diplomatically) moved away from the US and toward Russia. That's how Putin operates, he waits until we f-up and then he swoops in and picks up the pieces, and every single time we f-up, he seems to gain.

Same thing in happened in Syria. Obama and David Cameron tried to get support to attack Syria - the Brits shut Cameron down very quickly, Congress here did the same to Obama, then Putin moves in and makes a "peaceful deal" to get Syria to give up its chemical weapons. Putin made Cameron and Obama look very small and inefectual, but that's how he works.

Same thing in the Ukraine. We fund the ouster of an elected President, the Crimeans become furious, and Putin takes the opportunity to allow the Crimeans to vote to secede (which they did at more than 95%) and Putinswoops in to rescue (and annex) them.

What we know is that our stupidity was a forerunner of all of Putin's little victories -- so -- first things first -- we quit being stupid. Second, we try to emulate Reagan and make peace with Russia.

Putin is a force to be reckoned with, for sure, but he's not unbeatable. And, this "for life" thing is just media emotionalism, as it's not based in fact.
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ah, i see. have a good one.
 
HowardBThiname said:
Wrong. The Crimea seceded (95% of Crimeans voted to secede) because the US and the EU funded the rebels who threw the elected Ukrainian President out of power. We did that. That's meddling on a scale Russia hasn't even come close to.



Showing "backbone" has nothing to do with it -- you're itching for a war.



How was the choice of the Ukrainian president our business? Why did we step in a choose sides? Why not just allow democracy to take place and allow the people to elect the one they wanted? They wanted Victor -- they voted for him. We made a HUGE error there.



Wow --- with an agenda like that -- we can only hope that you never get into a position whereby you have the means to control foreign policy. Very Nixon-like of you.
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The Crimea seceded because Vladimir Putin had a high degree of support in the area and wanted to punish the Ukrainians for throwing their corrupt “president” out of office and not just sitting and enduring like good little puppets. And what’s worse, we didn’t even demand they put the corrupt “President” back in charge! Such “meddling” :roll:

And you are eager to abandon America's friends and continually give Vlad everything he wants under the fantasy of “avoiding war”.

Gee bud, maybe because America has a tendency to support people would topple corrupt puppet leaders in an attempt to create a real democratic society.

What a joke. The only areas which actually supported the corrupt “president”—-the ones in flames right now—-are ethnic Russian. Hmm.... did you figure it out yet, or do I have to continue painting you a picture?

I know right? Nixon “meddled” so much, like when he bombed the Khmer Rouge who were slaughtering their way around Cambodia. Such a tragedy :roll:
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I'm totally serious.
I am in favor of a kind of merit system.
If a country wants full access to our digital neighborhood, it needs to be based on some kind of merit.
Revocation of those access privileges should also be based on merit.
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I don't disagree, but we need to tread lightly. We are the most connected nation on earth. We can remove Russian access to elements of our digital world, but we also need to recognize and plan for the reaction to such an event well in advance. We can shut them out, though it would be difficult, but we have to realize they can shut us down in key areas as well. We may run the thing, but we don't hold all the keys.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Russia also has its own GPS system ... GLONASS (ГЛОНАСС). But disconnecting from the Internet would deprive Russia of tools such as the global SWIFT system which makes electronic banking and credit card transactions possible.
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Nice fantasy, but that is not how it works.

Here is the ting most people simply do not understand anymore. Unless your network is 100% isolated from the Internet, it is part of the Internet. And in this era of global communications, you can not separate the two.

Sure, it is possible. If they kill every phone line, every network link outside of their country, and order all satellite communications killed. But that is frankly not possible.

To give an example, doing so would instantly crash the IMOEX, which is their stock market. No Internet, no more trade with outside nations. No trade of Russian stock in other countries will start a selling spree that would make all of the US stock crashes combined pale in comparison. All International confidence would be lost the minute this happened, a massive sell-off will result.

And for the same reason, they could not isolate any of their monetary systems. No Internet to log purchases and sales with overseas banks, no trade. So all imports and exports stop.

In 2003 the US actively tried to cut Iraq off from the Internet, and was unable to do so. There is no way Russia could do it to themselves, even if they want to.
 
humbolt said:
Nope, but it looks like Russia is.
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Absolutely--as they support the bermuda triangle of iran, syria, and north korea.
Three to watch are Saudi, Israel, and India--as there are now direct flights from New Delhi to Tel Aviv over Saudi ...
 
It says that there is support for it, but from whom? It's not like most people in modern Russia would want to be cut off from the outside world??
 
Now is Russia's great opening to destroy us. Our leader is a blind, arrogant egotist with no world or military experience with a staff that refuses to remain with him. The same holds true with China.
 
Fishking said:
You really believe that?
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Not really. I'm getting tired of Putin's blustering and posturing though. These dictatorial regimes - China and Russia in particular - can spend $10 billion tomorrow with a simple directive.
 
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