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Thread: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    Well, whatever it is.......it will probably surprise us.

    You would never hear it coming!

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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    This article makes me think that TTWTT was right in the first place even though that first article didn't say it.

    Looks like some of the writers have been confused and it's not an improved 7.62 NATO but just the switch from 5.56 to 7.62 NATO that brings the improvement.

    https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/...ody-armor.html

    The U.S. Army's chief of staff told Congress the M4 Carbine's 5.56mm round can't penetrate modern enemy body armor plates and believes Infantry units need a more powerful rifle than the M4.
    "If I could have gotten the votes for an outright ban--picking up EVERY one of them – ‘Mr. and Mrs. America turn'em all in’ – I would have!”
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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    working on getting my hands on a .338 Lapua... between that and a nicely tricked out Remington Model 700 in .308 -- don't need much more. (30-06 isn't a bad choice either but why add another caliber to buy ammo for. .308 gives you a twofer with the 700 & SOCOM 16)
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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    Since the US Army is seeking to replace the M platform in its entirety, it is not likely current standard ammo choices will figure into the decision making process. With the need for replacing both standard carry and long range mission requirements, it is more likely we will see a revolutionary move toward .264 polymer multi-purpose ammo as a requirement for any new platform. .264 polymer ammo can carry programmed explosive loads, and guided electronics as needed. In other words this means programable after launch via radio from observer drones for long distance (up to 3.8 miles) targets on the move, as well as close range high velocity (under 300 yards) armor piercing even of our current M1A1,2,3 or the T80, T90 variants. Personal body armor becomes useless at short ranges thanks to vastly increased velocity, significantly reduced weight and computer guided heat and imaging accuracy. True point and shoot. The bullet that can be fired around corners and follow the target once locked on. There's an app for that. The greater concerns are ruggedness and protection from hacking for hand held computers. Times have changed.

    SOCOM prototypes (as well as other manufacturers) have weighed in at less than half of anything offered on the M platform, with greater versatility for mods, functioning without mishap during testing in all environments. Impervious to sand, water, and other debris or weather conditions, cold or heat. All at lower expense than our current weapons in use when scale of manufacturing is brought up to snuff. These are weapons that will be robotically built for precision and controls. Untouched by human hands and lack of skills.

    BTW, different purpose loads can be differentiated by color coding the polymer.

    General discussions have made it clear, if adopted, this platform will not be offered to NATO, never be sold or supplied to other military forces, and never be released for the civilian market.
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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Since the US Army is seeking to replace the M platform in its entirety, it is not likely current standard ammo choices will figure into the decision making process. With the need for replacing both standard carry and long range mission requirements, it is more likely we will see a revolutionary move toward .264 polymer multi-purpose ammo as a requirement for any new platform. .264 polymer ammo can carry programmed explosive loads, and guided electronics as needed. In other words this means programable after launch via radio from observer drones for long distance (up to 3.8 miles) targets on the move, as well as close range high velocity (under 300 yards) armor piercing even of our current M1A1,2,3 or the T80, T90 variants. Personal body armor becomes useless at short ranges thanks to vastly increased velocity, significantly reduced weight and computer guided heat and imaging accuracy. True point and shoot. The bullet that can be fired around corners and follow the target once locked on. There's an app for that. The greater concerns are ruggedness and protection from hacking for hand held computers. Times have changed.

    SOCOM prototypes (as well as other manufacturers) have weighed in at less than half of anything offered on the M platform, with greater versatility for mods, functioning without mishap during testing in all environments. Impervious to sand, water, and other debris or weather conditions, cold or heat. All at lower expense than our current weapons in use when scale of manufacturing is brought up to snuff. These are weapons that will be robotically built for precision and controls. Untouched by human hands and lack of skills.

    BTW, different purpose loads can be differentiated by color coding the polymer.

    General discussions have made it clear, if adopted, this platform will not be offered to NATO, never be sold or supplied to other military forces, and never be released for the civilian market.
    I think you are confusing reality with what you watched on TV. I assure you the two are not the same. And there are no current plans within the military to replace the M16 series of weapons.

    For the Army's new sniper rifle it looks like it will either be 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor with it most likely being the 6.5.

    Not sharing the new ammo with Nato is not happening either. And that's a good thing because it would be a really dumb idea.

    I don't know where you are getting your information from but you should probably find a new source.

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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    Well, whatever it is.......it will probably surprise us.

    Not as much as it will surprise those poor individuals on the receiving end.

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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    I think you are confusing reality with what you watched on TV. I assure you the two are not the same. And there are no current plans within the military to replace the M16 series of weapons.

    For the Army's new sniper rifle it looks like it will either be 260 or 6.5 Creedmoor with it most likely being the 6.5.

    Not sharing the new ammo with Nato is not happening either. And that's a good thing because it would be a really dumb idea.

    I don't know where you are getting your information from but you should probably find a new source.
    I don't watch much TV, but my younger son is now working ordinance procurement. Technology has progressed exponentially. The Israelis have already deployed some polymer ammunition. They are not the only military moving in this direction. The expense is much lower, the weight is much lower, meaning a soldier can carry more rounds. Accuracy is no longer dependent upon the soldier, making training simpler and less expensive. Need I go on?

    NATO is no longer a trusted alliance thanks to the EU, and that has nothing to do with Trump.

    I have no doubt your acumen of chemistry, physics, micro explosives, technology and so forth is superior to my own. As an investor who does invest in defense industries (not that I believe "defense" is an appropriate word), my research is rarely on point and I am certain you enjoy better returns. I firmly believe you would be shocked to learn which sectors have involved themselves in leading edge developments for small arms. And the military handguns we are familiar with will also wax nostalgically. The day of associating and measuring stopping power with caliber is coming to an end. Proof of evolution, the human species keeps finding better methods for killing each other.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Since the US Army is seeking to replace the M platform in its entirety, it is not likely current standard ammo choices will figure into the decision making process. With the need for replacing both standard carry and long range mission requirements, it is more likely we will see a revolutionary move toward .264 polymer multi-purpose ammo as a requirement for any new platform. .264 polymer ammo can carry programmed explosive loads, and guided electronics as needed. In other words this means programable after launch via radio from observer drones for long distance (up to 3.8 miles) targets on the move, as well as close range high velocity (under 300 yards) armor piercing even of our current M1A1,2,3 or the T80, T90 variants. Personal body armor becomes useless at short ranges thanks to vastly increased velocity, significantly reduced weight and computer guided heat and imaging accuracy. True point and shoot. The bullet that can be fired around corners and follow the target once locked on. There's an app for that. The greater concerns are ruggedness and protection from hacking for hand held computers. Times have changed.

    SOCOM prototypes (as well as other manufacturers) have weighed in at less than half of anything offered on the M platform, with greater versatility for mods, functioning without mishap during testing in all environments. Impervious to sand, water, and other debris or weather conditions, cold or heat. All at lower expense than our current weapons in use when scale of manufacturing is brought up to snuff. These are weapons that will be robotically built for precision and controls. Untouched by human hands and lack of skills.

    BTW, different purpose loads can be differentiated by color coding the polymer.

    General discussions have made it clear, if adopted, this platform will not be offered to NATO, never be sold or supplied to other military forces, and never be released for the civilian market.
    I think these things you mention are far in the future and fairly unlikely. Sharing with NATO is a standard that will not change and standardized ammunition is an absolute priority.

    Besides that, you're talking about some incredibly expensive changes in replacing current weapons systems with all new calibers and technology.

    The military moves slowly and carefully.
    "If I could have gotten the votes for an outright ban--picking up EVERY one of them – ‘Mr. and Mrs. America turn'em all in’ – I would have!”
    --Senator Diane Feinstein (60 Minutes interview February 1995)

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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    I think these things you mention are far in the future and fairly unlikely. Sharing with NATO is a standard that will not change and standardized ammunition is an absolute priority.

    Besides that, you're talking about some incredibly expensive changes in replacing current weapons systems with all new calibers and technology.

    The military moves slowly and carefully.
    It's been 4 1/2 years since the US Army started looking at replacements for the M platform, with breathtaking technology advancement since the search started. Standing down on change can be far more expensive than moving on. We've been asking our soldiers to do more with less, now we can accomplish more with less soldiers. Fortunately, armchair generals will not be leading the charge for change. Nor will politicians seeking home state defense contract advantages. The changes are coming from American technology companies traditionally without a stake in defense contracting, yet with their leads in fields that are applicable, changes will come far more quickly than ever before, and we have the personnel from our leading military academies well versed in modern technology to make it happen.

    When micro explosives designed for deep sea mining and potential asteroid defense are shown to be effective bullet loads that can pierce the armor of an Abrams, and the round is guided to its target by a hand held computer, like slicing butter with a hot knife, the US Army will not sit back to examine competing offerings that cannot deliver. That demonstration was made two years ago in Israel by an American company no one would suspect of defense industry aspirations. Change will come incrementally, but more rapidly than in the past. How long has it taken smart phones to become ubiquitous and land lines a quickly fading memory. Still in progress, but advancing daily. My mobile phone is a more powerful computer than the desktop I used 15 years ago.

    NATO is not as appreciated or trusted as many believe. Today it is suspect, thanks to EU policies and aspirations.

    The future is here and now.

    BTW It's been more than a year since a British sniper took out a target in Afghanistan from more than 1 mile away. Time and technology has not stood still. This time, American military managers will not allow superior technology land in enemy hands via so called allies.
    What kind of a man is a man who has not left this world a better place?

    No one is in control.

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    Re: Army sets sights on new sniper rifle

    Quote Originally Posted by Vox View Post
    Sabots might have reliability problems in a semi-auto. I've never tried that.
    In small arms they have an accuracy problem. Go to any 'gun' rubber bulletin board and see.

    The burning propellant at the base of a bullet has been tried as well- too small an amount that doesn't burn reliably enough for accuracy.

    I don't see how the German rifle is 'better' than what we already have, any upgrades are easily worked into what is issued now. Shorter barrel, new barrel lining, new ammo, etc

    1.5 MOA accuracy is about standard for any semi sniper rifle. MY DPMS does that and I doubt it costs 1/10th what the Army pays for a rifle...

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