Army Times: 89% of Soldiers Do Not Want Parade

Wiggen said:

I served three years active duty in the military during the Vietnam War. I can't think of a single guy I served with who liked parades or who thought they were anything more than a gigantic waste of time and energy.

My only question is that if the parade happens, does Trump get himself a fancy uniform with lots of ribbons on it that he can wear while watching?

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Rexedgar said:

This is going to help get the lights back on, on the island surrounded by 'big water?'

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The PR will work. It will continue to cement the idea in Trump supporters' minds that only he truly supports the troops. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

MrPeanut said:

The PR will work. It will continue to cement the idea in Trump supporters' minds that only he truly supports the troops. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough.

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(grin!)
It was a pun. You're talking about public relations, he was referring to Puerto Rico.

Mycroft said:

I'm a vet...Vietnam through the Gulf War. I'm well aware of the mindset of the American soldier.

Let me do my job. Make sure I have all the resources to do my job. I don't want to go to war, but I will. If you don't have anything for me to do, cool...let me do what I want to do. Parades? Yeah...I know why we have them, but I can find better things to do with my time.

I'm also a father. My oldest son has been fascinated by the military all his life. When he was 6 years old, I used to cruise along the banana belt on Ft. Carson with him on the back of my Goldwing. He wanted me to stop at every single motor pool so he could look at all the vehicles...both armored and unarmored. He made me tell him everything I knew about each and every one of them. I studied so I had the answers for him. At the local Memorial Day Parade, the horses...the marching bands...the politicians...didn't interest him. The military...THAT'S what he wanted to see. If he wasn't deaf in one ear, he'd be coming up on his 10th year of service right about now.

I'm thinking there are a LOT of sons...and daughters...out there just like my son. A big military parade would be awesome in their eyes.

The soldiers who have to march? Yeah...they have better stuff to do. But after the parade, when they have their static displays...they are going to love the kids, like my son when he was 10 years old, who come up and want to talk about the equipment. Some of those kids, like my son, will be telling those soldiers about caliber, maximum range and rate of fire.

THAT'S why we should have a parade.

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As long as Trump gets his third world dictator uniform with lots of medals on it, I'm good with it.

RF667799 said:

Since they are the ones that have to parade, it makes their opinion that much less relevant to me. If I take a poll tonight on any military base asking if it's a good idea to have PT Monday morning at 0500 instead of 0600 I can easily see the results being 89% opposed.

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Except doing PT at 5:00 am supposedly serves some military purpose. Parading around in uniform so that some fat, draft dodging piece of crap can get his jollies hardly seems to do the same thing.

Your perspective is interesting, however. Those actually affected by this colossal waste of time and money should just keep their mouths closed since their opinions are not worth anything. Bizarre, but this is the era of Trump.

gdgyva said:

Because they follow orders

Unlike civilians...when told to go someplace, they just go

They may bitch about it, but they know their duty

And the military is not a democracy...it is another of those authoritarian places a lot of you liberals hate

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Don't presume to tell me about the military. Don't even go there.

Wiggen said:

Except doing PT at 5:00 am supposedly serves some military purpose. Parading around in uniform so that some fat, draft dodging piece of crap can get his jollies hardly seems to do the same thing.

Your perspective is interesting, however. Those actually affected by this colossal waste of time and money should just keep their mouths closed since their opinions are not worth anything. Bizarre, but this is the era of Trump.

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Since I didn't say that, it can hardly be construed as my perspective.

It can help to picture things.

This is how a second such parade might look after Trump got away with having a first one....







BTW if anyone might be offended by the images they would have more sense going on than they might be aware of. In other words, we can be certain neither the U.S. armed services nor the society itself would want to see this kind of thing nor would they accept it.

It is also fact Pentagon did not cook up this parade idea nor would the Pentagon dream up such a crackpot idea. The military parade notion is Trump's idea. Under foreign influences of course -- of many kind. Trump for instance went to France to see a parade and came home thinking other countries too. Many other countries in fact.

As I've said in another thread, this is a horrible idea and a huge waste of money. It is also a waste of the precious time of our troops who would have to prepare for and/or participate in this parade. This does not honor us. It is nothing more than showing off. Honor us with actions. Heck, just inviting the VFW and/or other military organizations (including locally stationed servicemembers) to participate in parades being put on by the community honors us far more than ordering a parade that involves only us, takes away time from us (including a federal holiday weekend) and sounds like it would be showing us off, not actually honoring us. And that money is likely going to come out of our military budget.

I've seen some try to compare it to military flyovers during sporting events. They are not equivalent. First, those flyovers are not some grand statement that requires practice outside the normal everyday routines for those particular servicemembers, a parade is. Second, those flyovers cost very little and can be even deemed "training". A parade is estimated to cost millions (up to $50 Million last estimate I have seen). And the training involved would only be relevant to some very small number of military personnel, much fewer than those who would need to participate to involve any sort of equipment and large number of troops.

CMPancake said:

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/02/08/89-of-readers-say-no-parade/



89% of Soldiers think a military parade is a waste of time and money. The other 11% are divorced senior NCO/Officers who hate their troops.

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NO FOOLING - When I was active duty I hated parades too. I would much rather been at the club sipping a cool one or going fishing.

But then, parades are not for the benefit of the service member. They serve a national purpose.

I think the parade is a dumb idea and a waste of money.

That said what percentage of the military do you think wants to waste their time standing in a field for a change of command ceremony. Or spend days laying out all the equipment for a change of command inventory and then filling out useless shortage annexes for shortage that never get filled. Or spend endless hours doing online training covering everything topic from sexual assault to cyber security.

But that doesn't seem to stop any of that from happening.

Wiggen said:

Don't presume to tell me about the military. Don't even go there.

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Is that because of the massive three years of experience you have.

JONRID said:

NO FOOLING - When I was active duty I hated parades too. I would much rather been at the club sipping a cool one or going fishing.

But then, parades are not for the benefit of the service member. They serve a national purpose.

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They only serve as a self-aggrandizing, masturbatory self-entitlement fest for the obese draft dodger in the White House.

That's not a national purpose.

Okay folks...sharpen your wit and line up your ducks. The time and place for the parade is set.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...rumps-military-parade-is-set-for-veterans-day

I used to be a soldier.

I hated all formal occasions, especially parades.

I'm being stationed on the East Coast in a few weeks.

I really hope I'm not gonna be part of this bull****.

I used to be a soldier, and hated all drill and ceremony, but guess what I did them, from lowly company level to post level for the fort hood commander change of command. Would I do it if I was in the army, hell yeah but I doubt I would have had a choice, I would have preferred having a kegger in the barracks quad and ditching work over drill and ceremony, but guess what you can't always get what you want.

Sometimes I think the army is too soft, and the army I joined was considered too soft by older enlistees, truth be told If I said I did not want drill and ceremony, I would not be asked but would be told or face a ucmj or even a miltary tribunal depending on how serious they wanted to be about it.

I don't want any military parade to burnish Trumps ego. Put that money into PTSD recovery programs or Wounded Warrior.

Rogue Valley said:

I don't want any military parade to burnish Trumps ego. Put that money into PTSD recovery programs or Wounded Warrior.

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Military parades actually do less for the commander in chief and more for the general population, it gives them a sense of security seeing what they military has, it is more to make their people feel safe against invaders than it is to show off to the world or inflate any ego, which is largely why america has not much bothered with them, no country holds any power to invade the us except russia, and even russia has no plans to do so.

Maybe the parade can be overlapped with Putin’s visit and he and Trump can take the review!

CMPancake said:

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/02/08/89-of-readers-say-no-parade/



89% of Soldiers think a military parade is a waste of time and money. The other 11% are divorced senior NCO/Officers who hate their troops.

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It's not just that either. Parades absolutely SUCK for the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who have to do all the marching around.
Sure, they enjoy the admiration from the crowd but that's a tiny payoff for the grueling logistics, the endless hours of drilling and the enormous waste of resources, not to mention the destruction of city streets, and when it comes to streets, DC's streets are especially vulnerable.
A platoon of tanks, each weighing nearly 70 tons, will tear up DC's streets so badly that there are even worries about underground infrastructure being catastrophically damaged. The streets of the Nation's Capital were never built to withstand such heavy loads.

"Flaunting your military in parades and celebration is reserved for nations who have no real power," says Marine vet Anthony Isoldi. "We already know we have the most powerful military in the world. The money is better spent investing in combat veterans who feel abandoned by the government they protected."

Perotista said:

I agree. I was just surprised by all the vitriolic responses to it. I probably shouldn't have been. Anything Trump is either loved or hated. I just chalked it up as a dumb idea. Nothing to be loved or hated about it, it was just a plain dumb idea in my book.

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Sorry friend, but the guy IS an authoritarian, which is why authoritarian displays dazzle him so much.
The most bizarre part of it all however, is the fact that he was so taken in by the parade held in FRANCE.
Let's go back a few years, shall we, and explore conservative attitudes toward France.

Remember "Freedom Fries"?



Remember all the smartass remarks about how the French were a bunch of "cheese eating surrender monkeys"?



Remember Trump's furious anger over the slights directed at him by Emmanuel Macron?

I guess all that was lost on him the moment those tanks rolled down the Champs Elysee.
He loves authoritarian displays of muscle because he is, at heart, an authoritarian.

JC Callender said:

Why do so many people have to conjure up images of Nazi's and Communists concerning military parades? Can't one just be proud of our military?

I spent 4th of July in Traverse City, Mi. two years ago and there was an air show. It was on the beaches of the bay there, and it started with two really cool large military helicopters stopped in the air at each end of the bay and just hovering for about 5 minutes only about 50 feet above the water before the Blue Angels appeared. It's pretty awesome to see in person and can even make one emotional....this is who protects us. These are the awesome machines they protect us with. We have our freedom because of this. Amazingly, I never once conjured up images of Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, I actually just felt grateful and proud.

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The great thing about airshows is that they are relatively easy and cheap to put on compared to a parade.
Nobody discounts the emotional boost that a military parade offers but putting one on in the middle of the District of Columbia, a COLONIAL ERA TOWN built on a drained swamp in the 18th century, is the mother of all nightmares.

It's a logistical Hell, it's a training nightmare and it will do millions of dollars in damages.
If he wants a parade that badly, then hold one at one of our nation's many military bases where the stuff is already parked.

gdgyva said:

Because they follow orders

Unlike civilians...when told to go someplace, they just go

They may bitch about it, but they know their duty

And the military is not a democracy...it is another of those authoritarian places a lot of you liberals hate

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Somehow I just knew that we weren't going to be able to go for even one page without a conservative impugning the patriotism or discipline of liberals.
The authoritarian makeup of the military is ideal because it makes the military what it is.
Your problem seems to stem from the inability to recognize that the reason WHY the military's authoritarian characteristics are so desirable is because they eliminate the need to inject that authoritarianism into the civilian life of a free people in an advanced Western democracy.

We seek out those desirable authoritarian characteristics in the military precisely because it gives a free people the opportunity to relax that authoritarianism when we breathe the free air and enjoy those liberties provided for by the exercise of such authoritarianism in the military.

In other words, the happiest and healthiest people who serve are the ones who are able to recognize the difference between war and the world back home that they are fighting for. That's not me talking, that's the mental health specialists who counsel stressed out soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who are having difficulty readjusting.

If you're having difficulty readjusting, seek out some counseling instead of demonizing the grateful people you served.
We don't hate the military, we're thankful for it, but as civilians, we're also thankful for the ability to see the difference between the world at home and the world of war. If you can't see the difference, then we may just lose sight of exactly what it is we are fighting for in the first place.

Mycroft said:

I'm a vet...Vietnam through the Gulf War. I'm well aware of the mindset of the American soldier.

Let me do my job. Make sure I have all the resources to do my job. I don't want to go to war, but I will. If you don't have anything for me to do, cool...let me do what I want to do. Parades? Yeah...I know why we have them, but I can find better things to do with my time.

I'm also a father. My oldest son has been fascinated by the military all his life. When he was 6 years old, I used to cruise along the banana belt on Ft. Carson with him on the back of my Goldwing. He wanted me to stop at every single motor pool so he could look at all the vehicles...both armored and unarmored. He made me tell him everything I knew about each and every one of them. I studied so I had the answers for him. At the local Memorial Day Parade, the horses...the marching bands...the politicians...didn't interest him. The military...THAT'S what he wanted to see. If he wasn't deaf in one ear, he'd be coming up on his 10th year of service right about now.

I'm thinking there are a LOT of sons...and daughters...out there just like my son. A big military parade would be awesome in their eyes.

The soldiers who have to march? Yeah...they have better stuff to do. But after the parade, when they have their static displays...they are going to love the kids, like my son when he was 10 years old, who come up and want to talk about the equipment. Some of those kids, like my son, will be telling those soldiers about caliber, maximum range and rate of fire.

THAT'S why we should have a parade.

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Okay very well said.
Now, do the aftermath in the middle of the Nation's Capital, which by the way, already is a defense logistical nightmare even on the best of days.
Ask anyone in the MDW Joint Force Headquarters National Capital Region, and be sure to get the opinion of someone at the U.S. Army Transportation Agency.

I do appreciate your take on this vis a vis your son, and his admiration for the pride felt by all who have served, and their families.
I do get it, but I urge all in favor of this idea to consider the fact that the ancient streets of the District of Columbia are probably the absolute worst location imaginable for such an event, and if one parade is done, more will follow, but funding probably will not, and that means unresolved damage to our Capital, which can ill afford such stress.

We did not build the District of Columbia the way Lenin built Red Square. There are countless places in this great country which are indeed designed for parades of this nature. DC just isn't one of them.

By holding this event smack dab in the middle of DC, we are literally bending over and asking for a security nightmare, because unlike a real military exercise, a parade means all those resources are sitting ducks, and they might actually get in the way of real resources which might be called up in a matter of minutes should the unimaginable happen.

PS: The nearest Army post that even has tanks is probably Fort Stewart. That's in Georgia, about 610 miles away.
A typical tank gets about a mile per gallon, and has a range of between 75 and 200 miles tops.
So that means we're railheading a bunch of tanks to the middle of DC.
Yeah, another headache of unimaginable proportions.