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What is the point of a modern combat handgun? Why not glocks?

blackjack50

blackjack50

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Had another one of these discussions. And I still can’t understand why a Glock is bad. So maybe we can boil this down. What is the purpose of a military issued combat handgun? What does it need to do? How will it be used?
 
There's a myriad list of reasons the Army hasn't switched to glocks, namely price. But during beatings between glock and sig handguns, the Sig XM17 and XM18 performed better in almost every category.
 
blackjack50 said:
Had another one of these discussions. And I still can’t understand why a Glock is bad. So maybe we can boil this down. What is the purpose of a military issued combat handgun? What does it need to do? How will it be used?
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1. Not be plastic
2. Not have plastic magazines.

That being said, accidental discharges are all a matter of good training. So I do not see this as a bad issue with the Glock.
also 90% of most military people seldom shoot them in anger anyway, so i see this as not an issue with the Glock either.

ABUSE, however could be a key factor against the Glock. Military handguns should be of steel due to all the abuse and beatings they will take. Similar to grunt recruits.
 
blackjack50 said:
Had another one of these discussions. And I still can’t understand why a Glock is bad. So maybe we can boil this down. What is the purpose of a military issued combat handgun? What does it need to do? How will it be used?
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Trigger "safeties" suck. Glocks are ****.
 
CMPancake said:
There's a myriad list of reasons the Army hasn't switched to glocks, namely price. But during beatings between glock and sig handguns, the Sig XM17 and XM18 performed better in almost every category.
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Do you have a link to this testing.
 
PleasantValley said:
1. Not be plastic
2. Not have plastic magazines.

That being said, accidental discharges are all a matter of good training. So I do not see this as a bad issue with the Glock.
also 90% of most military people seldom shoot them in anger anyway, so i see this as not an issue with the Glock either.

ABUSE, however could be a key factor against the Glock. Military handguns should be of steel due to all the abuse and beatings they will take. Similar to grunt recruits.
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I couldn't disagree more. Glocks have proven their reliability and ruggedness over and over again. Both by numerous foreign militarism as well as by numerous units within the US military.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Trigger "safeties" suck. Glocks are ****.
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Trigger safeties are awesome. Takes zero extra effort to manipulate which in a super critical stress filled event when your fine motor skills are out the window like transitioning to your secondary in the middle of a gunfight inside a room can make the difference between life and death
Glocks are the ****.

There is a reason they are carried by the majority of our SOF units
 
braindrain said:
Trigger safeties are awesome. Takes zero extra effort to manipulate which in a super critical stress filled event when your fine motor skills are out the window like transitioning to your secondary in the middle of a gunfight inside a room can make the difference between life and death
Glocks are the ****.

There is a reason they are carried by the majority of our SOF units
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Yup...switching to your 2ndary only happens when your primary fails right in the middle of **** going down.
 
Fishking said:
Yup...switching to your 2ndary only happens when your primary fails right in the middle of **** going down.
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Well I wouldn't say it's the only time but it for sure is the most important
 
braindrain said:
Well I wouldn't say it's the only time but it for sure is the most important
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Well, outside of bullets flying you can do the immediate remedial steps to clear your primary and continue using, in just a few seconds. Usually dropping primary for secondary is going to be because you need it right now and you don't have time to fix your more effective weapon.
 
Fishking said:
Well, outside of bullets flying you can do the immediate remedial steps to clear your primary and continue using, in just a few seconds. Usually dropping primary for secondary is going to be because you need it right now and you don't have time to fix your more effective weapon.
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I agree though we also transition to our pistols when clearing things like cabinets or similar things. Also climbing ladders as well as several other particular occasions where we go from our rifle to pistol.
But yeah for the most part
 
braindrain said:
I agree though we also transition to our pistols when clearing things like cabinets or similar things. Also climbing ladders as well as several other particular occasions where we go from our rifle to pistol.
But yeah for the most part
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Definitely there are some specific cases where the smaller/quicker/more maneuverable weapon is better.
 
braindrain said:
Thank you. Look forward to reading it when I get some extra time later today.
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Basically, it came down to a few minor differences in licensing and $100M in price.
 
Lutherf said:
Basically, it came down to a few minor differences in licensing and $100M in price.
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That’s basically what I had always heard. Never heard that the Sig out did the Glock in anyway that matters to a soldier.
Personally I would have went with the combat tested and proven weapon but hope it works out. At the end of the day it won’t effect me any. We are sticking with our Glocks. In fact recently we just got a bunch of the new MOS Glock 19s.
 
braindrain said:
Trigger safeties are awesome. Takes zero extra effort to manipulate which in a super critical stress filled event when your fine motor skills are out the window like transitioning to your secondary in the middle of a gunfight inside a room can make the difference between life and death
Glocks are the ****.
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I'll take a .45 Kimber in condition 1 anyday over a glock.


There is a reason they are carried by the majority of our SOF units
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Lowest bidder.
 
I definitely would have done away with the 9mm choice.....but we have our hands tied due to STANAG requirements.
 
blackjack50 said:
Had another one of these discussions. And I still can’t understand why a Glock is bad. So maybe we can boil this down. What is the purpose of a military issued combat handgun? What does it need to do? How will it be used?
Click to expand...

Other than the fact that GLOCK is pretty much thirty year old technology that hasn't evolved much when it needed to?
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
I'll take a .45 Kimber in condition 1 anyday over a glock.





Lowest bidder.
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A less reliable more maintenance intensive weapon. Yeah sounds great.


I am sorry but your last sentence proves you have zero idea what you are talking about.
Anyone claiming that the units within SODOM choose Glocks due to budgets is clearly clueless.
Tell me why do you think MARSOC is moving more and more towards the much cheaper Glocks over their much more expensive 1911s.
Why the unit at Bragg with virtually unlimited options when it comes to weapons all carry Glocks.
Sorry but you just lost all credibility
 
Thumper39 said:
Other than the fact that GLOCK is pretty much thirty year old technology that hasn't evolved much when it needed to?
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In what way exactly do you think it needed to evolve.
Also my issued Glock with a cut out for a red dot seems rather modern.
 
braindrain said:
A less reliable more maintenance intensive weapon. Yeah sounds great.


I am sorry but your last sentence proves you have zero idea what you are talking about.
Anyone claiming that the units within SODOM choose Glocks due to budgets is clearly clueless.
Tell me why do you think MARSOC is moving more and more towards the much cheaper Glocks over their much more expensive 1911s.
Why the unit at Bragg with virtually unlimited options when it comes to weapons all carry Glocks.
Sorry but you just lost all credibility
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You said it. "much cheaper".


Here's the problem with the glock. The trigger safety creates way too many opportunities for accidental discharges. It's a poor choice..


If you were in the military, you would know, your equipment is designed by the lowest bidder.


The glock is a marginal improvement over the m9 which was and always will be a piece of crap.,
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You said it. "much cheaper".


Here's the problem with the glock. The trigger safety creates way too many opportunities for accidental discharges. It's a poor choice..


If you were in the military, you would know, your equipment is designed by the lowest bidder.


The glock is a marginal improvement over the m9 which was and always will be a piece of crap.,
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Do you understand how the trigger safety works?
 
blackjack50 said:
Do you understand how the trigger safety works?
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blackjack50 said:
Trigger safeties are awesome are you kidding? Manual safeties suck.
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yes, I disagree.



there are more negligent discharges with glocks than any other pistol.

http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-sheriff-guns-20150614-story.html



The weapons are more prone to AD/ND than any other system, the glock fanboys will always retort with "impossible, only user error." etc, but the statistics don't lie.
 
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