A moment of silence[W:27]

Today is December 7th. FDR declared “A Date Which Will Live in Infamy”. Take a moment to remember all those who perished 76 years ago today.

And not a mention of it in my local commie pinko California news.

A Day That Will Live in Infamy speech.

The total number of military personnel killed was 2,335, including 2,008 navy personnel, 109 marines, and 218 army. Added to this were 68 civilians, making the total 2403 people dead. 1,177 were from the USS Arizona.

The number of wounded came to 1,143 with 710 navy, 69 marines, and 364 army, as well as 103 civilians.

https://visitpearlharbor.org/faqs/how-many-people-died-at-pearl-harbor-during-the-attack/

It used to be strange working at a Japanese owned company on this anniversary.

chuckiechan said:

And not a mention of it in my local commie pinko California news.

Click to expand...

Well, your silence certainly didn't last long! :doh

chuckiechan said:

And not a mention of it in my local commie pinko California news.

Click to expand...

Not true in the San Diego area.

Old Sarge said:

Today is December 7th. FDR declared “A Date Which Will Live in Infamy”. Take a moment to remember all those who perished 76 years ago today.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I was looking to see if anyone else marked this day in remembrance. I was thinking of starting a thread, now no need to duplicate efforts already accomplished. Good work on your part, and all those who followed thru.

God Bless all who have put themselves in harm's way. Can do.

chuckiechan said:

And not a mention of it in my local commie pinko California news.

Click to expand...

Dec. 8, 1941 Sixteen hundred and fifty six members of the NYC Longshoremen's Union, the World Union of Dockworkers, entitled to deferments as essential workers, labeled as "commie pinko's" by their employers the previous March during a strike for living wages and riddance of corrupt union leadership in collusion with the employers, enlisted. One hundred and twenty one survived the war. They came back to fight those same corrupt union leaders, and were again labeled "commie pinkos" by employers fighting a raise from $1.10 an hour to $1.35 an hour, plus overtime time and a half, bathroom breaks, a half hour paid lunch break instead of 15 minutes, and family healthcare coverage. All but eleven re-enlisted for Korea. The eleven were rejected because they had prosthetic limbs. The employers eventually defeated the Longshoremen's Union with container shipping and the demise of the NYC harbor along with the Brooklyn Navy Yards.

There are times when patriotism, real patriotism trumps partisan politics, with action and not cheap lip service.

Some of us truly love this nation and its freedoms, for all.

I joined the Army on Dec 7th.......though, quite a few years later.

OldFatGuy said:

Dec. 8, 1941 Sixteen hundred and fifty six members of the NYC Longshoremen's Union, the World Union of Dockworkers, entitled to deferments as essential workers, labeled as "commie pinko's" by their employers the previous March during a strike for living wages and riddance of corrupt union leadership in collusion with the employers, enlisted. One hundred and twenty one survived the war. They came back to fight those same corrupt union leaders, and were again labeled "commie pinkos" by employers fighting a raise from $1.10 an hour to $1.35 an hour, plus overtime time and a half, bathroom breaks, a half hour paid lunch break instead of 15 minutes, and family healthcare coverage. All but eleven re-enlisted for Korea. The eleven were rejected because they had prosthetic limbs. The employers eventually defeated the Longshoremen's Union with container shipping and the demise of the NYC harbor along with the Brooklyn Navy Yards.

There are times when patriotism, real patriotism trumps partisan politics, with action and not cheap lip service.

Some of us truly love this nation and its freedoms, for all.

Click to expand...

So what is your point? They enlisted, or my commie pinko newspaper? Or commie pinko's in general, or newspapers in general?

Everyone who becomes a soldier does what he is told and lives or dies by the luck of the draw.

Today Japan is the ally of the United States in Asia-Pacific as Britain is the ally of the USA in Europe-Eurasia-Atlantic. Japan is an island nation off the Asian continent that is welded now to the USA as Britain is an island nation off Europe-Eurasia equally allied to the U.S.

The U.S. had to defeat the British Empire to establish its independence and sovereignty and we had to defeat Imperial Japan to preserve it. We done good each time.



Revenge of the Pearl Harbor Battleships


USS Arizona is no longer a commissioned ship but by act of Congress the war memorial is authorized to fly the flag. Of the 21 ships damaged or sunk in the attack 18 were raised or restored and fought in the Battle of Leyte Gulf in the biggest naval battle of World War II won decisively by the U.S. Navy.

https://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/revenge-of-the-pearl-harbor-battleships/




“One Hell of a Shootin’ Match”

The heart of Vice Admiral Thomas Kinkaid's battle line at Leyete Gulf in October 1944 were the old battleships Pennsylvania the flagship of the Pacific Fleet, the Maryland, West Virginia, Tennessee, California, and the Mississippi. All but Mississippi were veterans of Pearl Harbor and had been either sunk or badly damaged by the Japanese attack.


Rear Admiral Jesse Olendorff commanded the battleship line at Surigao Strait in the Philippines that sank the imperial Japanese fleet in the last battle of the battleships in a major war. The remaining Japanese fleet turned south and withdrew. Naval aircraft attacked and finished 'em. Japanese naval game over. U.S. armed forces set out northward.

Pearl Harbor Revenge: The Battleship Battle of Surigao Strait | The National Interest Blog




Here's the central how and why of it....


Pearl Harbor resurrection: the warships that rose to fight again

The attack on Pearl Harbor left a tangled mess of burning and shattered warships.

Navy divers spent over 16,000 hours (civilian dive teams added 4,000 hours) salvaging the ships sunk during the attack on Pearl Harbor. The divers not only aided in the search for survivors immediately after the attack, but also faced unseen dangers of salvaging the sunken fleet.


But it’s not the whole story. Even as the smoke cleared the US Navy was hard at work untangling the mess and salvaging the fleet. Many of the sunken warships rose again to fight the Axis. Only three were damaged beyond repair.

“The salvage and restoration of those ships is a saga of expertise, tenacity, hard work, and invincible optimism,” wrote University of Maryland historian Gordon Prange in his classic history of Pearl Harbor, “At Dawn We Slept.”

In 'one of history's greatest salvage jobs,' many of the sunken ships rose to fight the Axis. Divers spent over 20,000 hours underwater. Even in dry areas workers often had to wear gas masks to protect against the risk of toxic fumes.

The US Navy’s ability to limit the material damage of the Pearl Harbor attack was one of the reasons why Japanese military leaders later came to understand that on that fateful December day they had won a battle, but lost the war.

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Polit...rection-the-warships-that-rose-to-fight-again


We remember Pearl Harbor. The obligation in the present is to keep the homeland sovereign, stable, secure.

chuckiechan said:

So what is your point? They enlisted, or my commie pinko newspaper? Or commie pinko's in general, or newspapers in general?

Everyone who becomes a soldier does what he is told and lives or dies by the luck of the draw.

Click to expand...

I suspected I'd have to spell out the meaning for you. There are times when partisan hack labeling should be left out of the conversation. And partisan hack labeling is always suspect.

I am privileged to have lived and continue enjoying my life in this great capitalist nation. I have faith and trust in America and the American people to do right. Only those who do not trust the American people hate and rant with fear built on distrust as you have demonstrated.

If I had done everything I had been told to do when I was in the service, I'd be dead. Anyone who has served knows, officers can be idiots and cowards in the heat of battle. Even when not in battle. Certainly not all, but some. Part of being human.

"Cannons to the left of them, Cannons to the right of them, onward rode the ........" - Kipling

"Yes, honor. An officer's work of killing his own, never ends. Sacrifices will be made, yet I prefer to bring home as many of our boys as possible." - Gen. George Patton (he was speaking about Monte and Market Garden, off the record, of course)

OldFatGuy said:

I suspected I'd have to spell out the meaning for you. There are times when partisan hack labeling should be left out of the conversation. And partisan hack labeling is always suspect.

I am privileged to have lived and continue enjoying my life in this great capitalist nation. I have faith and trust in America and the American people to do right. Only those who do not trust the American people hate and rant with fear built on distrust as you have demonstrated.

If I had done everything I had been told to do when I was in the service, I'd be dead. Anyone who has served knows, officers can be idiots and cowards in the heat of battle. Even when not in battle. Certainly not all, but some. Part of being human.

"Cannons to the left of them, Cannons to the right of them, onward rode the ........" - Kipling

"Yes, honor. An officer's work of killing his own, never ends. Sacrifices will be made, yet I prefer to bring home as many of our boys as possible." - Gen. George Patton (he was speaking about Monte and Market Garden, off the record, of course)

Click to expand...

I will refer to my newspaper how ever I choose. And you should really cool off and get out of my face. You are disrespecting the thread.

OldFatGuy said:

I suspected I'd have to spell out the meaning for you. There are times when partisan hack labeling should be left out of the conversation. And partisan hack labeling is always suspect.

I am privileged to have lived and continue enjoying my life in this great capitalist nation. I have faith and trust in America and the American people to do right. Only those who do not trust the American people hate and rant with fear built on distrust as you have demonstrated.

If I had done everything I had been told to do when I was in the service, I'd be dead. Anyone who has served knows, officers can be idiots and cowards in the heat of battle. Even when not in battle. Certainly not all, but some. Part of being human.

"Cannons to the left of them, Cannons to the right of them, onward rode the ........" - Kipling

"Yes, honor. An officer's work of killing his own, never ends. Sacrifices will be made, yet I prefer to bring home as many of our boys as possible." - Gen. George Patton (he was speaking about Monte and Market Garden, off the record, of course)

Click to expand...

There are as you know so many quotes that derive from the military experience, combat, the commanders and the grunts on the ground or who loaded the ship's armaments. One of the salient ones that itself writes the book is the major in Frederick's army cussing out a lieutenant after a battle: "The king gave you a commission because he thought you knew when to disobey an order." Your comment that you'd be dead if you obeyed all orders invokes the savvy maxim yet again here.

It indeed was the eight USN destroyers in the dangerously shallow waters off the Normandy shores that disobeyed orders to withdraw that were a key to turning the battle. The eight formed themselves up instead into a line of bombardment into the Nazi positions. They thereby told the pinned down troops on the beach who were gonna be left for dead they could do it so the grunts stood up and got running forward and did it. Insubordinate officers got medals for saving the day by enabling the grunts to charge the Nazi positions and clear 'em out. Nobody asked for medals but all ranks in all services got 'em anyway.

You reference further one of the great friendly rivalries of the not so friendly commanders Patton vs Montgomery. I still chuckle at Patton's accounts of the two crossing the Rhine. While the super timid Monte on the allied bank wuz throwing up smokescreens and firing off artillery to prepare his crossing Patton downriver was already on the German side blasting 'em and running 'em over. Patton signaled to Monte that is wuz safe now for him to cross. Monte the warrior conqueror. Fact is the guy wasn't worth a dime after his Market Garden debacle that simultaneously set back British morale at home and among the troops.

Patton outdid Monte in Europe making headlines at Bastogne and executing rapidly various pincer movements to snag entire corps of German forces. In North Africa Monte The Obscure got tossed into command after a succession of less than stellar Brit commanders had had their turns at building Rommel's reputation.

As for Monte against the Desert Fox my uncle Corporal Ralph could have run Rommel out with the massive equipment and troop arrivals under the new logistician of the sands named Eisenhower. Monte was able finally to run through Rommel's tanks like they had no fuel coming in, not to mention ammo, which was exactly the case. The second battle of El Alamein and Operation Torch did much to finally break Rommel if not bury him, but it was the British and Australian junior officers and men in their tenacity than because of the soon afterward shiny Viscount of Alamein Montgomery and his dubious genius. Strange to footnote Benghazi was an early disaster for the Brits and long before the Americans arrived. I knew I'd heard of the place already, long ago and equally insignificantly.

chuckiechan said:

I will refer to my newspaper how ever I choose. And you should really cool off and get out of my face. You are disrespecting the thread.

Click to expand...

Actually, I think he's pointing out, rather succinctly, that by inserting your typical partisan droning into a remembrance thread, you're the one disrespecting the thread. You would have done better sticking to a moment of silence. I know you can't help yourself, but it would have been nice this time around.....

chuckiechan said:

I will refer to my newspaper how ever I choose. And you should really cool off and get out of my face. You are disrespecting the thread.

Click to expand...

Just stop.

chuckiechan said:

I will refer to my newspaper how ever I choose. And you should really cool off and get out of my face. You are disrespecting the thread.

Click to expand...

Do you own that newspaper? Do you not trust America and Americans?

There are two chunks of lead, a gift from SE Asia, in my right leg, another in my left leg, a fourth and fifth in my back. I believe that earned me the right to speak with Freedom. Freedom that no one will deny me, and no one will disrespect.

Tangmo said:

There are as you know so many quotes that derive from the military experience, combat, the commanders and the grunts on the ground or who loaded the ship's armaments. One of the salient ones that itself writes the book is the major in Frederick's army cussing out a lieutenant after a battle: "The king gave you a commission because he thought you knew when to disobey an order." Your comment that you'd be dead if you obeyed all orders invokes the savvy maxim yet again here.........

Click to expand...

Wars are won by those who think and rise to seize the moment, even when wrong. I was never the brightest light in town, but some orders were so much less brilliant.

Meanwhile back to the raison d'être for this thread, let us honor those who were sacrificed on Dec. 7th.

OlNate said:

Actually, I think he's pointing out, rather succinctly, that by inserting your typical partisan droning into a remembrance thread, you're the one disrespecting the thread. You would have done better sticking to a moment of silence. I know you can't help yourself, but it would have been nice this time around.....

Click to expand...

What partisan droning?

chuckiechan said:

What partisan droning?

Click to expand...

Well, I know you know what partisan is.

Droning:

speak tediously in a dull monotonous tone.
"he reached for another beer while Jim droned on
synonyms: speak boringly, go on and on, talk at length;

OlNate said:

Well, I know you know what partisan is.

Droning:

speak tediously in a dull monotonous tone.
"he reached for another beer while Jim droned on
synonyms: speak boringly, go on and on, talk at length;

Click to expand...

Typical leftie running his mouth with no back up. Let me offer assistance: start from the of the thread.

chuckiechan said:

Typical leftie running his mouth with no back up. Let me offer assistance: start from the of the thread.

Click to expand...

Typical rightie, running his mouth when he should have had the sense and class to stop a long time ago... :roll:

(For the conservatives with class who might be reading this, "typical" was used ironically, don't worry, I know, not all conservatives...)

Your comment: "And not a mention of it in my local commie pinko California news. "

Sure, a remembrance post is totally an appropriate spot to throw a jab. You really can't help yourself, can you?

OlNate said:

Typical rightie, running his mouth when he should have had the sense and class to stop a long time ago... :roll:

(For the conservatives with class who might be reading this, "typical" was used ironically, don't worry, I know, not all conservatives...)

Your comment: "And not a mention of it in my local commie pinko California news. "

Sure, a remembrance post is totally an appropriate spot to throw a jab. You really can't help yourself, can you?

Click to expand...

So my referring to our local **** newspaper as a “commie pinko rag” has the lefties pearl clutching? Good grief. What snowflakes have we spawned?

Brittle much?

Sorry to “jab” at left wing heroes!

chuckiechan said:

So my referring to our local **** newspaper as a “commie pinko rag” has the lefties pearl clutching? Good grief. What snowflakes have we spawned?

Brittle much?

Sorry to “jab” at left wing heroes!

Click to expand...

I think I speak for people left wing or right wing when I say (points be damned)....

STFU