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Thread: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

  1. #131
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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Oh, the Navy was very touchable. But it is largely MAD that kept the peace since the end of WWII. Thankfully nobody wanted to try and tangle with nations that had nuclear weapons.

    It is not like no nations have attacked the US Navy in 70 years. But it was always kept small scale if they did.
    Wrong. It's not like we haven't fought wars in the age of MAD.
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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And we really do not have the space to build ships at our current shipyards. I've been there. It is one of the reasons that our maintenance schedules are behind, because there simply isn't places to put ships or boats needing repairs or scheduled maintenance (especially not certain types of maintenance) if one or more other boats or ships already in for maintenance falls behind.
    Which goes right back to the BRACs of the 1990s. We really gutted our capabilities in this area when we did that, and we will never get them back.

    This is why I have long believed we should return to the old practice of mothballing facilities for 20 years or so before we finally decide they are not needed. That way we can restore them if it is realized the base really is required. Bases like Fort Rucker had that done, and when it was realized they really were needed saved a ton of money as opposed to building new bases.
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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Wrong. It's not like we haven't fought wars in the age of MAD.
    No major wars. They were all regional wars, with no nuclear nations taking up arms in opposition to each other.

    I never said there were no wars, that is impossible, There will NEVER be no wars. But there have been no major wars since then.
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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Which goes right back to the BRACs of the 1990s. We really gutted our capabilities in this area when we did that, and we will never get them back.

    This is why I have long believed we should return to the old practice of mothballing facilities for 20 years or so before we finally decide they are not needed. That way we can restore them if it is realized the base really is required. Bases like Fort Rucker had that done, and when it was realized they really were needed saved a ton of money as opposed to building new bases.
    But it shows what is going on now. We can't live in the past. Things that have already been done cannot be changed. All we can do is work with what we have in the most efficient way we can.

    To me it is similar to those who argue about how we should go to the metric system. In theory, it makes sense to convert over, since the rest of the world uses it and it is a better system. In reality, it would be a nightmare and take a very long time to implement, requiring decades of dedication to a mixed system where both must be taught to everyone and people encouraged into embracing the metric system over the Standard system despite using both. It would also very likely lead to a lot of problems and very likely many injuries and deaths, since people are people and make mistakes.
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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    No major wars. They were all regional wars, with no nuclear nations taking up arms in opposition to each other.

    I never said there were no wars, that is impossible, There will NEVER be no wars. But there have been no major wars since then.
    THere were no major wars because the US Force projection was the entire globe. That immediate force projection was made possible largely on the mobility and power of the US carrier battle groups.
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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    THere were no major wars because the US Force projection was the entire globe. That immediate force projection was made possible largely on the mobility and power of the US carrier battle groups.
    Uh-huh. Keep telling yourself that.

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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    The GAO report on the recent facility shortfalls at the shipyards helps with understanding this stuff too. Our Facilities are grossly underrated for the requirements that they're required to meet. The recent changes after the Miami fire made every shipyards water supply structures instantly under-rated for Fire Fighting needs. Some overhauls are short in excess of 18000 amps of 440vac power to execute the proposed schedules as they equipment for the work has become better and safer, but uses a lot more power and the infrastructure upgrades have been kicked down the road continually for decades.

    This gets compiled when the Navy feels it is behind on maintenance and then decides that an idle period for a dry-dock is to be used for an availability... and then you can't do the facility and maintenance that's required to keep the systems working optimally. Throw in the green workforce Roguenuke already mentioned along with constantly needed to support emergency repairs on ships that have broken or become damaged while deployed (Stripping assets away from other projects making them all late) and it turns into a cascading nightmare to power through.

    there have also been continuous leadership changes, as most military commanders last 3 years before transfer or promotion, and a lot of people that weren't ready for leadership are being sucked up to fill all the vacancies from retirees without the full breadth of experience they really need. Which leads to buzz-word Flovor of the Month™ management and organizational strategies that normally do little to help.

    The whole situation is a mess caused by shortsighted budgeting and poor leadership over many decades.

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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    Quote Originally Posted by TTB View Post
    The GAO report on the recent facility shortfalls at the shipyards helps with understanding this stuff too. Our Facilities are grossly underrated for the requirements that they're required to meet. The recent changes after the Miami fire made every shipyards water supply structures instantly under-rated for Fire Fighting needs. Some overhauls are short in excess of 18000 amps of 440vac power to execute the proposed schedules as they equipment for the work has become better and safer, but uses a lot more power and the infrastructure upgrades have been kicked down the road continually for decades.

    This gets compiled when the Navy feels it is behind on maintenance and then decides that an idle period for a dry-dock is to be used for an availability... and then you can't do the facility and maintenance that's required to keep the systems working optimally. Throw in the green workforce Roguenuke already mentioned along with constantly needed to support emergency repairs on ships that have broken or become damaged while deployed (Stripping assets away from other projects making them all late) and it turns into a cascading nightmare to power through.

    there have also been continuous leadership changes, as most military commanders last 3 years before transfer or promotion, and a lot of people that weren't ready for leadership are being sucked up to fill all the vacancies from retirees without the full breadth of experience they really need. Which leads to buzz-word Flovor of the Month™ management and organizational strategies that normally do little to help.

    The whole situation is a mess caused by shortsighted budgeting and poor leadership over many decades.
    May 24, 1979
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    Re: MASSIVE US NAVY Drydock Capacity Failures

    The devil is in the details indeed. I love a good Rickover story when they come along. I have His principals posted near my workstation. "Don't Live With Deficiencies" and "Face Facts Brutally" are the two I normally have highlighted when dealing with folks.

    -TTB

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