• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Army lifts ban on waivers for recruits with history of some mental health issues

I am generally a proponent of judging people's fitness for something on an individual basis.

But considering govt bureaucracy and the numbers involved and knowing they are looking for more bodies out of necessity, I am not happy to read this policy change.

I do not think the vetting of these individuals will be adequate.
 
MaggieD said:
This is somewhat worrisome for obvious reasons. But I think we need to keep an open mind and trust that the military is considering enlistees on an individual basis.
Click to expand...

It depends on what mental problems are being allowed.

On the battlefield, having a crazy mother****er next to you isn't necessarily a bad thing.
 
Carjosse said:
That is like Applebee's complaining that millennials just cannot appreciate their food. The reason millennials hate Applebee's is the food is crap and they offer nothing to them. Same with the army, it offers nothing millennials value, it actually staunchly opposes millennial values. Companies are learning this lesson, a lot the hard way, if they want to survive they have to adapt. Millennials place very high value on things like autonomy, flexibility, and individuality. Things the army by very definition does not have. And all of that just to what, stand in a desert and risk getting killed?

When a business fails do you blame the customers for not buying their products?

Please tell me what the army offers this generation.
Click to expand...

Militaries don't exist to cater to peoples's wants and desires.
 
Carjosse said:
That is like Applebee's complaining that millennials just cannot appreciate their food. The reason millennials hate Applebee's is the food is crap and they offer nothing to them. Same with the army, it offers nothing millennials value, it actually staunchly opposes millennial values. Companies are learning this lesson, a lot the hard way, if they want to survive they have to adapt. Millennials place very high value on things like autonomy, flexibility, and individuality. Things the army by very definition does not have. And all of that just to what, stand in a desert and risk getting killed?

When a business fails do you blame the customers for not buying their products?

Please tell me what the army offers this generation.
Click to expand...
The same thing it has offered every generation. Pay, opportunity to serve, opportunity to develop career skills, opportunity for college, retirement benefits...etc.

No doubt...todays generation sees the world differently. 22% believe they are going to be successful athletes or rappers. 15% believe they want to go into graduate professions but only 6% are willing to consider it due to the level of work required. They want Youtube star careers...not trade professions. They want to be professional video gamers...yes...professional video gamers...not office workers. And heres a shocker...they suck at financial literacy. hey dont understand money,the value of money, what is required to live in the real world, and what exactly the earning potential is of those sought after careers.
 
VanceMack said:
The same thing it has offered every generation. Pay, opportunity to serve, opportunity to develop career skills, opportunity for college, retirement benefits...etc.

No doubt...todays generation sees the world differently. 22% believe they are going to be successful athletes or rappers. 15% believe they want to go into graduate professions but only 6% are willing to consider it due to the level of work required. They want Youtube star careers...not trade professions. They want to be professional video gamers...yes...professional video gamers...not office workers. And heres a shocker...they suck at financial literacy. hey dont understand money,the value of money, what is required to live in the real world, and what exactly the earning potential is of those sought after careers.
Click to expand...

If you polled Grade 8s, but millennials want to actually enjoy their work and have the employer benefit them as well. The pay is ****, the opportunity to serve means nothing, trade schools exist outside of the military, retirement benefits are on their way out, and no one wants to work in a ****hole and waste several years their lives just to pay for college. The army is a horrible employer, it is no wonder no one wants to enlist. Why the hell would I want to join the military when I can start off in a much better career with better pay, I get to go home at the end of the day, and I can switch jobs or move whenever I want.
 
Carjosse said:
The pay is ****, the opportunity to serve means nothing, trade schools exist outside of the military, retirement benefits are on their way out, and no one wants to work in a ****hole and waste several years their lives just to pay for college. The army is a horrible employer, it is no wonder no one wants to enlist. Why the hell would I want to join the military when I can start off in a much better career with better pay, I get to go home at the end of the day, and I can switch jobs or move whenever I want.
Click to expand...
Good luck. You should go do that.

What makes you think those circumstances havent ALWAYS existed?
 
VanceMack said:
Good luck. You should go do that.

What makes you think those circumstances havent ALWAYS existed?
Click to expand...

They probably have I am just letting you know it is because of a change of values and the millennials no longer value what the military offers and most likely neither will successive generations so the military must adapt to lower enlistment. Millennials value freedom and flexibility far higher.
 
Last edited:
Carjosse said:
They probably have I am just letting you know it is because of a change of values and the millennials no longer value what the military offers and most likely neither will successive generations so the military must adapt to lower enlistment. Millennials value freedom and flexibility far higher.
Click to expand...
The military has studied the modern recruit. They understand that. And its an all volunteer force. No one should join the military if they dont want to. Again...not the point.

Millennials struggle with this little thing called reality. Fortunately for them there are people that will cater to them. Or rather...unfortunately..since that is what has caused their problems in the first place. But hey...as long as you can get someone to provide for you...I reckon its good duty.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I have seen every level of crazy there is to see in 20 years, so you are offering nothing there. As far as your experience goes, it doesn't reflect on the fact that the retention rate is too low too maintain troop strength. You can go off on your tangents, but the fact still remains. The good folks in the military are tired watching their kids grow up through video.
Click to expand...

Oh I doubt you've seen every level of crazy, but you seem to think you have a clue about the army- which you obviously don't. You can try to go off on tangents but the fact remains the TOPIC UNDER DISCUSSION is allowing bipolar, cutter and folks who use drugs into the service. I wouldn't want any bipolar troops around me with select fire/full auto weapons. Not so sure having a cutter in the platoon is a good thing either.

That the military has trouble recruiting when civilian unemployment is low is a fact. That the past debacles and continuing on going drift mission in Afghanistan has dampened the patriotism of the football booers is a fact.

But allowing bipolar, cutter or other once bars to enlist in is not going to create a winning military and sets us up for a MASSIVE VA bill later...

Replacing the Navy's fatigue accidents with those caused by mentally challenged folks doesn't make sense.

THAT was the point.... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
Oh I doubt you've seen every level of crazy, but you seem to think you have a clue about the army- which you obviously don't. You can try to go off on tangents but the fact remains the TOPIC UNDER DISCUSSION is allowing bipolar, cutter and folks who use drugs into the service. I wouldn't want any bipolar troops around me with select fire/full auto weapons. Not so sure having a cutter in the platoon is a good thing either.

That the military has trouble recruiting when civilian unemployment is low is a fact. That the past debacles and continuing on going drift mission in Afghanistan has dampened the patriotism of the football booers is a fact.

But allowing bipolar, cutter or other once bars to enlist in is not going to create a winning military and sets us up for a MASSIVE VA bill later...

Replacing the Navy's fatigue accidents with those caused by mentally challenged folks doesn't make sense.

THAT was the point.... :peace
Click to expand...

The Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coasties all have their own different types of crazies?

No.......I think it's you who doesn't have a clue. :peace
 
RetiredUSN said:
The Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force and Coasties all have their own different types of crazies? No.......I think it's you who doesn't have a clue. :peace
Click to expand...

Nice try but you dodge the issue once again... did 'your' Navy purposely enlist bipolar and or cutter recruits? How about guys who pissed hot? You ain't seen the level of crazy enlisting known bipolar or cutters will bring.

And you never did answer if you'd be happy with your local PD filling empty positions with bipolar/cutter minor drug users...

You want your PD putting 'crazies' out on the street around your family with body armor and deadly force???

Answer that one rather than try to claim you have seen crazy... :doh
 
VanceMack said:
None of that changes the fact that today’s generation is soft. FFS...why would you even argue against undeniable facts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Because every generation likes to say the next generation is worse. This has literally been going on for all of mankind.
 
Bowe Bergdahl was enlisted by the Army after the Coast Guard discharged him for psychological problems.
 
notquiteright said:
Nice try but you dodge the issue once again... did 'your' Navy purposely enlist bipolar and or cutter recruits? How about guys who pissed hot? You ain't seen the level of crazy enlisting known bipolar or cutters will bring.

And you never did answer if you'd be happy with your local PD filling empty positions with bipolar/cutter minor drug users...

You want your PD putting 'crazies' out on the street around your family with body armor and deadly force???

Answer that one rather than try to claim you have seen crazy... :doh
Click to expand...

First, I know of 2 cutters in the Navy during my time. Both were females. One got shown the door for more serious issues and the other one finished her enlistment.

I have also seen senior enlisted beat their wives, and and they got to finish their careers.

Secondly, cutters are not any crazy people.

Thirdly, 17% of the military are already walking around on some drug prescribed to help them cope.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Because every generation likes to say the next generation is worse. This has literally been going on for all of mankind.
Click to expand...
The facts support it.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Blame Obama?

No there is plenty of blame to go around.

Starting with Bush Jr. reacting to 9/11 by going to war with Iraq and Afghanistan in 2003, and continuing via occupation through Obama's two terms and ongoing so far with Trump's administration.

14 plus years of war, enough to dissuade most young men fit for duty from joining.

The problem is that when the military waives mental and medical issues that would normally prohibit enlistment, these issues become a burden during active service, and on the VA system thereafter.
Click to expand...

....and eventually perhaps lead to characters like the former USAF weirdo at the Texas church a few weeks back.....
 
Thoreau72 said:
....and eventually perhaps lead to characters like the former USAF weirdo at the Texas church a few weeks back.....
Click to expand...

As I have already stated earlier.

17% of the military is walking around right now under legal drug prescriptions for anti depressants........................and being deployed.
 
RetiredUSN said:
As I have already stated earlier.

17% of the military is walking around right now under legal drug prescriptions for anti depressants........................and being deployed.
Click to expand...

You're not wrong Chief. War is hell, and 16 years of war brought under fraud is just that much worse on morale.
 
VanceMack said:
The military has studied the modern recruit. They understand that. And its an all volunteer force. No one should join the military if they dont want to. Again...not the point.

Millennials struggle with this little thing called reality. Fortunately for them there are people that will cater to them. Or rather...unfortunately..since that is what has caused their problems in the first place. But hey...as long as you can get someone to provide for you...I reckon its good duty.
Click to expand...

Most folks in their 20s today are unfit: The Vast Majority Of Americans In Their 20s Are Unfit For Military Service

On the plus side, this lack of recruitment is actually making it much easier for me to go from Reserves to active. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom