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Two Storks Hit F-35, Sending Stealth Jet to Garage (excerpt)

reinoe said:
So your answer is that its ok for the F-35 to be in the "test phase" for 20 years? And you know what else? It doesn't matter if the F-35 flies like a dream if it's down 75% of the time. And btw, it doesn't fly like a dream anyway.
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Where did you pull the 20 years out of?
 
reinoe said:
The F-35 is a piece of garbage and the Israeli's don't want to publicly disclose embarrassing defects.
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Ok, give us your expert opinion on why the F-35 is a piece of garbage. Try to be factual and not mimic articles you have read.
 
Thoreau72 said:
And now hypoxia reports....F-35A Pilots Report Five More Hypoxia-Like Episodes | Defense content from Aviation Week
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The F-35 like the F-22 makes it's own oxygen instead of using LOX bottles. The system is very complex and sometimes it takes awhile to work out all the bugs. This has been true of every new weapons system we have ever brought on line. The biggest problem with both programs is the cost. That is something that Joe Six Pack doesn't understand, technology is expensive.
 
Old Sarge said:
The F-35 like the F-22 makes it's own oxygen instead of using LOX bottles. The system is very complex and sometimes it takes awhile to work out all the bugs. This has been true of every new weapons system we have ever brought on line. The biggest problem with both programs is the cost. That is something that Joe Six Pack doesn't understand, technology is expensive.
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Thanks, I knew all that and agree. I think the Navy is having hypoxia-like issues on its T-45. Whether it's the same system I don't know.

It does seem the F-35 is having more than the average share of such problems. And I know inflation has much to do with it, but the project has been way over budget. Will it deliver in the field? Stay tuned.

And it would be fascinating to know the truth about this Israeli ship. Was it really bird strike, or did the S-200 get a bit too close to that stealth aircraft?
 
reinoe said:
The F-35 is a piece of garbage and the Israeli's don't want to publicly disclose embarrassing defects.
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The F-16 was the same thing when it came out. Aircraft have growing pains.

BTW, if it really hit a stork, they are lucky it didn't crash the plane. Any word on the baby?
 
Old Sarge said:
The biggest problem with both programs is the cost. That is something that Joe Six Pack doesn't understand, technology is expensive.
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No, the biggest problem with both programs is that they are not good enough for the troops. And I realize from a former useless conversation with you that you are entirely interested in only the technological toys, but expensive and mostly experimental programs like these leaves the troop without the support he needs.

F-35 = Can perform "ground attack and air superiority missions," but carries less payload and less fuel than other air crafts, which are useful to the troop.

F-22 = Designed primarily as an air superiority fighter, but argued to have ground attack capabilities in order to keep the program alive. Again, carries less payload and less fuel than other air crafts, which are useful to the troop.

Designing weapon systems that rely entirely on wars that we want to fight, instead of wars that we do and are going to fight, is the bigger problem. The "dog fight" is as in the past as the great naval battles. One can argue the F-35's existence only because it seeks to update Harrier technology into a better package. But the troop in Iraq and Afghanistan could have really used more Harriers. One cannot argue the need for the F-22, which was (and still is) a Cold War dream.

This is not good enough for the troop. As per my recent lecture to you, this is akin to the Marine Corps or the Army deciding that they want a new toy to replace the M-16, so they argue and create a program to develop laser blasters.
 
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chuckiechan said:
The F-16 was the same thing when it came out. Aircraft have growing pains.

BTW, if it really hit a stork, they are lucky it didn't crash the plane. Any word on the baby?
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Nah....Ive seen bird strikes on condors. Unless it FODs out the engine, its extraordinarily unlikely to crash the airplane.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Thanks, I knew all that and agree. I think the Navy is having hypoxia-like issues on its T-45. Whether it's the same system I don't know.

It does seem the F-35 is having more than the average share of such problems. And I know inflation has much to do with it, but the project has been way over budget. Will it deliver in the field? Stay tuned.

And it would be fascinating to know the truth about this Israeli ship. Was it really bird strike, or did the S-200 get a bit too close to that stealth aircraft?
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I agree the 35 is way over budget and I believe we are asking too much of a single airframe, As far as problems go I know the more technical and complex the weapons system the more problems will surface.

As far as the bird strike one of our Eagles took a sparrow hit on the wing leading edge and that tiny bird broke 4 of 6 wing spars. So a bird strike is bad no mater what jet it is.
 
Old Sarge said:
I agree the 35 is way over budget and I believe we are asking too much of a single airframe, As far as problems go I know the more technical and complex the weapons system the more problems will surface.

As far as the bird strike one of our Eagles took a sparrow hit on the wing leading edge and that tiny bird broke 4 of 6 wing spars. So a bird strike is bad no mater what jet it is.
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It's amazing how delicate those fancy fighters are. I've hit birds a few times and ended up with dents. I have seen a huge hole put in the leading edge of a Cessna 421 caught on very short final by one of the large walking birds, sandhill crane. Knew another guy who took a buzzard through the front window but made it back to the field.
 
Thoreau72 said:
It's amazing how delicate those fancy fighters are. I've hit birds a few times and ended up with dents. I have seen a huge hole put in the leading edge of a Cessna 421 caught on very short final by one of the large walking birds, sandhill crane. Knew another guy who took a buzzard through the front window but made it back to the field.
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They aren't that delicate. You have to remember jets hit birds at 200 to 350 knots. Big difference when a Cessna hits a bird at 90 mph.
 
Old Sarge said:
They aren't that delicate. You have to remember jets hit birds at 200 to 350 knots. Big difference when a Cessna hits a bird at 90 mph.
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If it really was a sparrow, either it was a massive sparrow or the wing structure is very delicate to have broken 5 wing spars. Maybe it wasn't actually the wing spar, or maybe it wasn't actually a sparrow.
 
Thoreau72 said:
If it really was a sparrow, either it was a massive sparrow or the wing structure is very delicate to have broken 5 wing spars. Maybe it wasn't actually the wing spar, or maybe it wasn't actually a sparrow.
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Sorry sport it was a sparrow as found by the accident board and the wing was bad enough that the engineers decided it had to be replaced. How much time do you have flying or fixing fighter aircraft?

Added: You do understand that birds that hit aircraft leave feathers and those feathers can identify the type of bird can't you?
 
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Storks can weight up to 10 pounds.



Imagine a 10 pound rock hitting, say, a tank, at over 1000 miles per hour.

Simple physics.
 
Old Sarge said:
Sorry sport it was a sparrow as found by the accident board and the wing was bad enough that the engineers decided it had to be replaced. How much time do you have flying or fixing fighter aircraft?

Added: You do understand that birds that hit aircraft leave feathers and those feathers can identify the type of bird can't you?
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Sure Sarge, I get all that. The only USAF aircraft I've ever flown was the old A-37 in RVN 1970. Not really a fighter of course, but armed. We dropped bombs in the forest on targets marked with WP. Our helicopter ambulance unit had a good relationship with the AF guys over at the next field.

I also flew the sim for the T-38 back in the 80's.

And in real life I've hit numerous birds myself, airplanes and helicopters. Most did very minor damage.

The jets I fly--Learjet and Citation and some time in the Falcon series, have never hit a bird. It's birds going through the engines that scares me. Airframe hits not so much, having done it.

Are you kidding about the birds and the feathers? You mean a bird can be identified by way of its feathers? Wow, I learn something every day Sarge.

How many wing spars does that aircraft have, that 5 or 6 were taken out by a sparrow?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Sure Sarge, I get all that. The only USAF aircraft I've ever flown was the old A-37 in RVN 1970. Not really a fighter of course, but armed. We dropped bombs in the forest on targets marked with WP. Our helicopter ambulance unit had a good relationship with the AF guys over at the next field.

I also flew the sim for the T-38 back in the 80's.

And in real life I've hit numerous birds myself, airplanes and helicopters. Most did very minor damage.

The jets I fly--Learjet and Citation and some time in the Falcon series, have never hit a bird. It's birds going through the engines that scares me. Airframe hits not so much, having done it.

Are you kidding about the birds and the feathers? You mean a bird can be identified by way of its feathers? Wow, I learn something every day Sarge.

How many wing spars does that aircraft have, that 5 or 6 were taken out by a sparrow?
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I over stated the spar damage as I recall it went through one or two and cracked a couple, you have to remember I am relying on memory of an event that happened over 30 years ago, so the facts may be off a bit but I do have a pretty good memory of events and that one stuck in my seldom access memory because the crew chief was a good friend of mine. As too the bird thing you seemed to be a little patronizing so I just reacted. I worked on the A-37 in Nam in the 60's and I couldn't believe how much ordinance they could hang on such a little jet.

You say it worries you about taking a bird into an engine. I will give you another bird strike story. One of our Eagles took a buzzard down the right intake and the engine came apart. Turbine blades were imbedded in the back bone of the jet and also penetrated a fuel cell. The driver was lucky he had no fire and was able to get the jet on the ground in one piece.

After 24 years of maintenance experience I have seen a few strange things happen to jets.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Sure Sarge, I get all that. The only USAF aircraft I've ever flown was the old A-37 in RVN 1970. Not really a fighter of course, but armed. We dropped bombs in the forest on targets marked with WP. Our helicopter ambulance unit had a good relationship with the AF guys over at the next field.

I also flew the sim for the T-38 back in the 80's.

And in real life I've hit numerous birds myself, airplanes and helicopters. Most did very minor damage.

The jets I fly--Learjet and Citation and some time in the Falcon series, have never hit a bird. It's birds going through the engines that scares me. Airframe hits not so much, having done it.

Are you kidding about the birds and the feathers? You mean a bird can be identified by way of its feathers? Wow, I learn something every day Sarge.

How many wing spars does that aircraft have, that 5 or 6 were taken out by a sparrow?
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No one on this site who has read more then a few of your posts believes you have ever flown any type of plane. Hell I have my doubts you have ever actually been in a plane.
 
Old Sarge said:
I over stated the spar damage as I recall it went through one or two and cracked a couple, you have to remember I am relying on memory of an event that happened over 30 years ago, so the facts may be off a bit but I do have a pretty good memory of events and that one stuck in my seldom access memory because the crew chief was a good friend of mine. As too the bird thing you seemed to be a little patronizing so I just reacted. I worked on the A-37 in Nam in the 60's and I couldn't believe how much ordinance they could hang on such a little jet.

You say it worries you about taking a bird into an engine. I will give you another bird strike story. One of our Eagles took a buzzard down the right intake and the engine came apart. Turbine blades were imbedded in the back bone of the jet and also penetrated a fuel cell. The driver was lucky he had no fire and was able to get the jet on the ground in one piece.

After 24 years of maintenance experience I have seen a few strange things happen to jets.
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I watched a friend flying a Lear 24 take a buzzard in the right engine on takeoff. Strong airplane, good pilot, and it turned out fine except it was really expensive buying the new engine.
 
We all know what can happen to a plane when they ingest birds, Sully's miracle landing on the Hudson attest to that.
 
Old Sarge said:
We all know what can happen to a plane when they ingest birds, Sully's miracle landing on the Hudson attest to that.
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Freinds...

I present to you the "chicken gun"

Bird strikes can cause extensive damage to aircraft and serious injuries to their crews. At worst, they can be deadly confrontations. The Air Force estimates that planes hit about 3,000 birds every year, causing damages of $50 million and sometimes loss of human life. In a bird-strike accident in September 1995, 24 AWACS crew members were killed after takeoff from Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska.
https://www.snopes.com/science/cannon.asp

 
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