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British Isis member Sally Jones 'killed in airstrike with 12-year-old son'

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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British Isis member Sally Jones 'killed in airstrike with 12-year-old son'

Ewen MacAskill Defence correspondent
Thursday 12 October 2017

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Sally Jones - a/k/a/ The White Widow or Umm Hussain al-Britani

The British member of Islamic State Sally Jones is believed to have been killed, along with her 12-year-old son Jojo, in a US airstrike. Although there is confidence she is dead, it is impossible to be categorical given the inability to collect evidence on the ground. Other members of Isis have been reported dead only to reappear. Jones, dubbed “the white widow” by some in the press, was a regular propagandist on social media. She had more than 20 handles on Twitter but there has been no activity from her in recent months. The Sun reported that the CIA had told its UK counterparts Jones was killed by a Predator drone strike near the Syria-Iraq border in June. It added she had last been seen fleeing from Raqqa and heading for the Syrian border town of Mayadin. Many Isis members have fled the city as the organisation has gradually been squeezed.
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Jones and her husband Junaid Hussain (EKIA 25 August 2015) were well known for using social media (Twitter) to recruit for ISIS. She also instructed European female ISIS recruits as suicide bombers. She is survived by a 20 year old son living in the UK.
 
MaggieD said:
Tragic about her son... such is the life she exposed him to.
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He's twenty and a celebrity. If he wants, he can market that and make a good living, I schools have thought.
 
joG said:
He's twenty and a celebrity. If he wants, he can market that and make a good living, I schools have thought.
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I think you missed the part that her 12 year old son was killed as well.
 
MaggieD said:
Tragic about her son... such is the life she exposed him to.
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"Tragic about her son". You are, I suppose, right though I am having trouble feeling quite as sorrowful as perhaps I should. Might that because I learned at an early age that my country's (and mankind's) enemies were killing children without even the merest pang of remorse?

Islamists kill children. In Iran they even hang them.
 
MaggieD said:
Tragic about her son... such is the life she exposed him to.
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MQ-1 Predator drones usually fly at ~12,000 feet in the ME. At that altitude, targets of value can neither see nor hear a drone. From the scanty info mentioned in the article, I can hazard some guesses... Raqqa is currently being besieged by both US/Kurdish and Russian/Assad forces. ISIS emirs and commanders etc are so busy trying to flee before the noose around the city tightens that they sometimes throw personal caution to the wind and get careless. A MQ-1 flying at ~6,000 feet can easily obtain a fairly clear facial pic. A drone camera snapped her picture which was immediately sent to different military/intelligence agencies (DIA, CIA, FBI, FVEY, etc) via email. A positive IDENT email was returned (probably all under a few minutes). The way it usually worked when a woman and/or a minor child was on-scene (at least under Obama drone rules), permission to go hot had to first go to the local unit commander, then the US theater commander (CENTCOM), then the Joint Chiefs in DC, and then on to White House lawyers. She had to already be on a AUMF (Authority to Use Military Force) master target list. All drone video-feed/cam-snapshots can be channeled to cleared-monitors anywhere in RT via satellite, and all related communications usually transpire within a designated secure military chatroom. Permission to go hot was granted. A AGM-114 Hellfire exploded within the vehicle. Death was quick.
 
Rogue Valley said:
MQ-1 Predator drones usually fly at ~12,000 feet in the ME. At that altitude, targets of value can neither see nor hear a drone. From the scanty info mentioned in the article, I can hazard some guesses... Raqqa is currently being besieged by both US/Kurdish and Russian/Assad forces. ISIS emirs and commanders etc are so busy trying to flee before the noose around the city tightens that they sometimes throw personal caution to the wind and get careless. A MQ-1 flying at ~6,000 feet can easily obtain a fairly clear facial pic. A drone camera snapped her picture which was immediately sent to different military/intelligence agencies (DIA, CIA, FBI, FVEY, etc) via email. A positive IDENT email was returned (probably all under a few minutes). The way it usually worked when a woman and/or a minor child was on-scene (at least under Obama drone rules), permission to go hot had to first go to the local unit commander, then the US theater commander (CENTCOM), then the Joint Chiefs in DC, and then on to White House lawyers. She had to already be on a AUMF (Authority to Use Military Force) master target list. All drone video-feed/cam-snapshots can be channeled to cleared-monitors anywhere in RT via satellite, and all related communications usually transpire within a designated secure military chatroom. Permission to go hot was granted. A AGM-114 Hellfire exploded within the vehicle. Death was quick.
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Wow. What interesting information. Thank you for your service.
 
Chagos said:
What gives you that impression?
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The... she is survived by her twelve year old son...

Seems a strange addition to a terrorist being killed.
 
Bodhisattva said:
The... she is survived by her twelve year old son...
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Her 20 year old son. The older one that stayed in UK.

She took her younger son (assumed killed) with her to Syria.
Seems a strange addition to a terrorist being killed.
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It's not an uncommon formulation in an epitaph. An epitaph not being a eulogy, of course.

And post #8 seems to me to underline the military angle fitting for this sub forum.

Yet where empathy is concerned, the kid that she brainwashed into becoming an ISIS fighter and not making it past 12, certainly has mine. Not that it does him any good now.
 
Rogue Valley said:
MQ-1 Predator drones usually fly at ~12,000 feet in the ME. At that altitude, targets of value can neither see nor hear a drone. From the scanty info mentioned in the article, I can hazard some guesses... Raqqa is currently being besieged by both US/Kurdish and Russian/Assad forces. ISIS emirs and commanders etc are so busy trying to flee before the noose around the city tightens that they sometimes throw personal caution to the wind and get careless. A MQ-1 flying at ~6,000 feet can easily obtain a fairly clear facial pic. A drone camera snapped her picture which was immediately sent to different military/intelligence agencies (DIA, CIA, FBI, FVEY, etc) via email. A positive IDENT email was returned (probably all under a few minutes). The way it usually worked when a woman and/or a minor child was on-scene (at least under Obama drone rules), permission to go hot had to first go to the local unit commander, then the US theater commander (CENTCOM), then the Joint Chiefs in DC, and then on to White House lawyers. She had to already be on a AUMF (Authority to Use Military Force) master target list. All drone video-feed/cam-snapshots can be channeled to cleared-monitors anywhere in RT via satellite, and all related communications usually transpire within a designated secure military chatroom. Permission to go hot was granted. A AGM-114 Hellfire exploded within the vehicle. Death was quick.
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I just got a boner.

Awesome.

Boom. Boom. Out go da lights.

In God we trust. All others we track.

USN Firecontrol rules.
 
Captain America said:
I probably need a shrink more than anything else. LOL!

Besides. I don't want to get Miss Maggie jealous.
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I eas going to say that actually but didnt want an infraction...
 
Bodhisattva said:
I eas going to say that actually but didnt want an infraction...
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It's okay. People insult me here all the time. I thought I was the only one that got in trouble for that!?!? LOL!
 
While ISIL is a monstrous death-cult which must be suppressed and ended, I am of two minds regarding the targeted killing of this woman and her son. As odious as her association with ISIL was, to my knowledge she never used direct violence to promote her adopted cause. Her husband did and therefore I have far fewer qualms about his targeted killing and death. She however was a non-combatant who used words and images to spread her creed and recruit others to her adopted cause. While that behaviour was criminal by UK law, it does not normally carry the death penalty. Given that neither the UK nor the USA are formally at war with Syria or ISIL, this seems to me to be an extrajudicial killing based on her expressed beliefs rather than her manifest actions.

Should people be killed outright and without some sort of trial for non-violently promoting an Islamic Caliphate or any other cause against Western interests? Or is the West as arbitrary and intolerant of opposing ideas as ISIL is and thus feels it is entitled to summarily take lives simply because it can? This woman seems to have been purposely targeted for assassination while fleeing from Raqqa and several media reports which I read/watched indicated she might have been trying to make her way back to the UK at the time of her alleged death in June. If that is true, why not arrest her upon her return, try her according to UK law and punish her accordingly rather than assassinating her and her 12-year old son?

It is perhaps easier to accept her death after her demonisation by the UK and Western press as the "White Widow". But her crimes were committed by doing exactly what the UK and Western press have also done. She demonised the West and called for the killing of westerners. She recruited supporters and popularised her cause by words and images. But she never took up arms directly to kill. This is no different than what the Western media and legions of military and political pundits have done with regards to the Middle East for at least seven decades and arguably two centuries. So why are the Fleet Street propagandists and the blood thirsty CNN pundits left in peace while she and other non-combatants are blown up by drones, illegally flying in Syrian air space when no formally declared state of war exists? And if she can be killed for her beliefs then who else can be killed for expressing their own beliefs, if such beliefs annoy or threaten power? Killing yesterday's non-combatant jihadist may set the precedent for killing tomorrow's Jean Juares or Gandhi. Free and principled states should never be allowed to openly kill people without due process unless they are at formally declared war.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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You forgot the part where Sally Jones helped instruct European female recruits, recruited with her direct participation, to be suicide bombers in the ME and Europe.

Capture is usually the preferred option, as interrogation is an invaluable tool in reconstructing terrorist nodes and cells. Capture operators, usually Delta or Seal teams, are the very best at what they do.

Sometimes however, for various reasons, capture ceases to be a viable option. Jones was one of only two women on the US terrorist "list of significance".

She was calculating, deceptive, sadistic, deadly, and evil. It is unfortunate that she elected to immerse her younger son in her ISIS activities.
 
Rogue Valley said:
You forgot the part where Sally Jones helped instruct European female recruits, recruited with her direct participation, to be suicide bombers in the ME and Europe.

Capture is usually the preferred option, as interrogation is an invaluable tool in reconstructing terrorist nodes and cells. Capture operators, usually Delta or Seal teams, are the very best at what they do.

Sometimes however, for various reasons, capture ceases to be a viable option. Jones was one of only two women on the US terrorist "list of significance".

She was calculating, deceptive, sadistic, deadly, and evil. It is unfortunate that she elected to immerse her younger son in her ISIS activities.
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Well she was known to be pretty nuts a long time ago, but apparently she was able to function good enough to help DAESH.

How brilliantly evil she was seems kinda up in the air though..
 
Rogue Valley:

I will assume you are referring to my above post, if not ignore what follows.

You wrote:

You forgot the part where Sally Jones helped instruct European female recruits, recruited with her direct participation, to be suicide bombers in the ME and Europe.
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No, not forgotten but unproved in a court or military tribunal. Death by allegation is never a good idea. Should the European, American and Canadian WWII veterans who trained the Jewish League's armed forces between 1945 and 1948 have been killed extrajudicially for their aid to violent non-state actors? Should SOF operators who train insurgents abroad be extrajudicially killed because they teach the illegal use of violence? No, they should be caught, detained and prosecuted for crimes under the Rule of Law. Only if they resist arrest violently is their killing justified.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Rogue Valley:

I will assume you are referring to my above post, if not ignore what follows.

You wrote:



No, not forgotten but unproved in a court or military tribunal. Death by allegation is never a good idea. Should the European, American and Canadian WWII veterans who trained the Jewish League's armed forces between 1945 and 1948 have been killed extrajudicially for their aid to violent non-state actors? Should SOF operators who train insurgents abroad be extrajudicially killed because they teach the illegal use of violence? No, they should be caught, detained and prosecuted for crimes under the Rule of Law. Only if they resist arrest violently is their killing justified.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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The Jewish League didn't make a habit of commiting horrific war crimes. There is no equivalency between the two groups, nor between those veterans and this "lady".

SOF forces operating with insurgents run the risk of being killed in action all the time during the Cold War. It was mostly East Bloc personnel, however, in those roles.
 
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