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Army investigating West Point grad’s pro-communist social media posts[W:70]

Evilroddy said:
Tigerace117:

Washington and the Marquis de Lafayette did help to create a system which directly killed hundreds of thousands of Native American people in pursuit of the manifest destiny of the USA and its driving ideology to subjugate others in the service of profit and expansion. Tens of thousands of Hipanic Americans were also killed and millions were (and are being) displaced by the system begun by these two men. Both of these men did create a system which today structurally kills thousands and imprisons millions of Americans. They both set in motion a system which uses destabilisation and wars of adventure to achieve its ideological and economic goals and in doing so has killed millions over the last 241 years, so I don't think the revolutionaries Washington or Lafayette are anymore off the hook than Guevara in this regard. The only mitigating factors being the distance of time and the ideological alignment of these revolutionaries to the present US ruling elites' world view.

So yes, I wonder about the face on the shirt and its role in triggering the wider investigation which allegedly links this young man to attacks against the leadership of the military. That does not change my estimation that he is unfit to serve as an officer for his foolishness of bringing this all down upon himself. If he is clearly a danger to himself, thus he is a greater danger to others he might lead in combat. Therefore he should not be an officer.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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How many Hispanics existed in America during Washington's lifetime?
 
American said:
How many Hispanics existed in America during Washington's lifetime?
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American:

Define "America" and I can answer that question for you. Do you mean the original 13 colonies which became independent? Do you mean the territory which would become the modern-day USA? Do you mean North America? Do you mean North, Central and South America?

You will note that in the quote of mine which you cite above I said:

Tens of thousands of Hipanic Americans were also killed and millions were (and are being) displaced by the system begun by these two men. Both of these men did create a system which today structurally kills thousands and imprisons millions of Americans.
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The oppression has largely occurred after the lifetimes of both Washington and the Marquis de Lafayette. The system has outlived Washington himself but he began it and is therefore responsible for the consequences of his creation.

It really boils down to whose rebels are endorsed and whose rebels are reviled by a people and its armed forces, in other words discrimination based on ideology.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
American:

Define "America" and I can answer that question for you. Do you mean the original 13 colonies which became independent? Do you mean the territory which would become the modern-day USA? Do you mean North America? Do you mean North, Central and South America?

You will note that in the quote of mine which you cite above I said:



The oppression has largely occurred after the lifetimes of both Washington and the Marquis de Lafayette. The system has outlived Washington himself but he began it and is therefore responsible for the consequences of his creation.

It really boils down to whose rebels are endorsed and whose rebels are reviled by a people and its armed forces, in other words discrimination based on ideology.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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America is usually considered the USA, ask a Canadian.
 
American said:
America is usually considered the USA, ask a Canadian.
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American:

Then for the purposes of this discussion I will assume you mean the present day borders of the USA c. AD 1780. There were large Hispanic populations in Florida, Texas, New Mexico and California which were killed, forcibly displaced and oppressed by US territorial, state and Federal governments from the 18th Century until today. In the 1930's, during the depths of the Great Depression, between 1.8 and 2 million people of Mexican/Latino origin were forcibly rounded up and expelled from the USA including between 300,000 and 500,000 US citizens whose legal papers were systematically seized and denied to them in order to stop them from being able to return to the US where they were born and were citizens. That's just one more modern example of a process which has been, and still is, ongoing in America.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
American:

Then for the purposes of this discussion I will assume you mean the present day borders of the USA c. AD 1780. There were large Hispanic populations in Florida, Texas, New Mexico and California which were killed, forcibly displaced and oppressed by US territorial, state and Federal governments from the 18th Century until today. In the 1930's, during the depths of the Great Depression, between 1.8 and 2 million people of Mexican/Latino origin were forcibly rounded up and expelled from the USA including between 300,000 and 500,000 US citizens whose legal papers were systematically seized and denied to them in order to stop them from being able to return to the US where they were born and were citizens. That's just one more modern example of a process which has been, and still is, ongoing in America.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Actually not in Washington's day, and the term Hispanic Americans didn't exist. Things were a lot different then, so you have to be pretty specific about what you mean.
 
American said:
Actually not in Washington's day, and the term Hispanic Americans didn't exist. Things were a lot different then, so you have to be pretty specific about what you mean.
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American:

As I thought I had made clear above, I am not talking about events limited to Washinton's lifetime. He was instrumental in creating a system and a set of institutions which have treated people of many races and ethnicities very badly for centuries. He and other founding fathers all own what reverberates from their initial creation down through the centuries.

If you want direct culpability of Washington during his lifetime in both deaths and forced removals then look to Native Americans and Empire Loyalists forcibly displaced from the new USA in the 1770's and 1780's.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Well, perhaps it is a good thing that a young man with such low situational awareness not be an officer leading men in the lethal chaos of armed conflict. Politics aside, that was a stupid move by the young man and shows poor decision making skills and acumen.

I can't help but wonder however if the undershirt had had a different revolutionary's portrait on it, say George Washington, would the young man be in the same situation? Would anyone have looked at his pseudonyms and his tweets if the face on the shirt was that of the Marquis de Lafayette and not Che Guevara?
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Well, it would have been a violation of Army regulations regardless of whose face was on the t-shirt, and he would have gotten in trouble. But it was contemptuous speech that's going to nail him.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Really this isn't about the words or political views of the social media posts, but rather that he's wearing a political t-shirt in his military uniform and posting it on social media. Obviously a no-no, regardless of the topic.



To be fair this guy is an infantry combat veteran, airborne and air assault qualified, and deployed with the Ranger Regiment before going to Westpoint.[1] Should he have done this? No, but calling a war veteran a "****bag" because you don't like his views on politics makes you look like one instead.
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Being a combat veteran does not exempt you from being an asshole for having certain political views. What if he supported fascism or white supremacy? The fact is...communism is in opposition to our way of life here. And you are right though. The biggest issue here is that he was in uniform.
 
blackjack50 said:
Being a combat veteran does not exempt you from being an asshole for having certain political views. What if he supported fascism or white supremacy? The fact is...communism is in opposition to our way of life here. And you are right though. The biggest issue here is that he was in uniform.
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No, but it does exempt you from being criticized by random children on the internet with things like "How the hell did this **** bag make it into the academy?" It's obvious how he got into Westpoint. He earned it.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
No, but it does exempt you from being criticized by random children on the internet with things like "How the hell did this **** bag make it into the academy?" It's obvious how he got into Westpoint. He earned it.
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Question isn't how he got in, but how he kept a straight face all those years saluting a flag he hated and listening to the codes of honor taught to him.
 
pinqy said:
Well, it would have been a violation of Army regulations regardless of whose face was on the t-shirt, and he would have gotten in trouble. But it was contemptuous speech that's going to nail him.
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Pingy:

But as a branch of the Federal Government, can the Department of Defence and the Marine Corps openly punish non-harmful free speech without exposing these institutions to civil action and costly liabilities? No secrets were revealed and no operational security was compromised. That pesky first amendment might come into play here since this is the Federal Government suppressing speech. Not the tee-shirt image but the social media posts I mean.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
Pingy:

But as a branch of the Federal Government, can the Department of Defence and the Marine Corps openly punish non-harmful free speech without exposing these institutions to civil action and costly liabilities? No secrets were revealed and no operational security was compromised. That pesky first amendment might come into play here since this is the Federal Government suppressing speech. Not the tee-shirt image but the social media posts I mean.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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10 U.S. Code § 888 - Art. 88. Contempt toward officials
Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

10 U.S. Code § 933 - Art. 133. Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

10 U.S. Code § 934 - Art. 134. General article
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

That's 3 Federal crimes right there. Not a free speech issue.
 
From a professor who taught at West Point. When I first read about this story I wondered how this could
happen at one of our military academies. If what the professor writes is truly happening then there are
extremely serious flaws at West Point that need to be corrected ASAP!


Exclusive: Former West Point professor’s letter exposes corruption, cheating and failing standards [Full letter]

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2017/10/exclusive-former-west-point-professors-letter-exposes-corruption-cheating-and-failing-standards-full-letter/

The following letter was written by retired LTC Robert M. Heffington as an open letter. Heffington was an assistant professor at West Point for several years, until this past August.

The letter has been circulating for a few days in private among the military.

Heffington confirmed to American Military News on Wednesday that he did write the letter, and he sent a signed copy.

He wrote the letter in light of recent media coverage of 2nd Lt. Spenser Rapone, a West Point graduate and infantry officer who recently came under fire for his public advocacy and support of socialism and communism, and being an “official socialist organizer” of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA).
 
Evilroddy said:
But as a branch of the Federal Government, can the Department of Defence and the Marine Corps openly punish non-harmful free speech without exposing these institutions to civil action and costly liabilities?
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If made in uniform, yes. They can and have a great many times in the past and will again in the future.

What I choose to say as either Mr. Martin as a civilian, or as Veteran Martin is perfectly legal free speech. I can scream about almost anything I want, so long as I am representing myself as just another citizen.

But when I am making the same statements in a uniform and identifying myself as Sergeant Martin, then I am opening a large case of butt-hurt on to myself. And there are a great many DoD, Army, navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps regulations prohibiting somebody from doing that.

And obviously, when you are in the military you do not loose your freedoms. But they are restricted in how and when you can express them.

If I choose, I can go to an Antifa Rally, a KKK Rally, or even a CPUSA Rally any time I want as a member of the military.

I just can not do so in uniform.
 
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